3 killer businesses hiding in plain sight

Key Takeaway

Start an “opportunity log” today. During your work, errands, and conversations, write down five frustrating manual tasks, strange suppliers, or recurring bottlenecks you notice. For each, ask: Who loses money or time here? Why is this still done manually? Could a specialist service do it better? Don’t begin with a trendy app idea; begin with an unglamorous problem you can observe closely. Revisit the list weekly and look for patterns in industries you already understand.

Episode Overview

The hosts explore lucrative but overlooked businesses, from laboratory-animal supply chains to dental billing operations and industrial-generator maintenance. They argue that entrepreneurial opportunities emerge through close observation, personal proximity to an industry, and pursuing unusual interests rather than competing in crowded, obvious markets. The conversation also connects childhood interests, creative sensitivity, enthusiasm, and awe to finding work worth pursuing.

Full Transcript

Transcript of 3 killer businesses hiding in plain sight from My First Million. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

Guess how much a monkey costs. I do n't know. 1000 dollars? Almost 20,000. Almost 20,000. Almost 20,000. One monkey costs 20 thousand? Before thousand? Before thousand? Before we start, can you check the condition of my hair, dude? I think I've reached a point where I need to need to need to start accepting something. You know, when I wear a hat every day, I feel like I'm literally throwing up a white flag with that hat. That hat. That hat. That maybe, just maybe, I'm going a little bald on top.

top. top. What would you accept? It starts with "R". Like, it's an "R" word. Er -er, re... -er, re... -er, re... Nutrifol. Oh yes, there is a common name for them, and there are also branded ones. But like Modafinil, something there, something there. Does that sound right? It sounds like something like that. like that. like that. One of their drawbacks seems to be a flaccid penis. penis. penis. Of course. Well, it could be two in one. I'm done with the kids. So, you know. I was thinking about a vasectomy.

Maybe we don't need to do this. This is so funny, man. Ben, as you know, you never see Ben without a hat, well, for similar reasons. And he met a guy, and he's like, "Oh, I have, I'm on hair protocol hair protocol hair protocol from this guy." And I'm like, "What? Like, what do you have? A Turkish guy? Who did you find?" He's like, " No, no, no, this is my friend. He set me up for this protocol." And you know, "protocol" became a buzzword after buzzword after buzzword after Human and Brian Johnson.

I'm like, "What do you mean? He gave you a pill? Is that protocol?" And he's like , "No, no, no, I have to do do do red light therapy, do this, apply serum, blah blah blah." Okay. So I asked, "So how's it going?" And he's like, uh, he's like, "I don't know, man. You'll tell me when you see me." So, I just saw him yesterday. He has a beard now. beard now. beard now. Oh, a thick beard? He has a beard, but his hair looks the same.

So, something is working a little . This is very funny. The beard looks great. I have to admit it. Did you see? There is such an app, I know I was just inundated with ads about it. This is qoves.com. So, this is q o v e s.com. I was just bombarded with ads for this app, and I bought it. It costs $150. costs $150. costs $150. The advertising worked. Improve your Improve your Improve your appearance without appearance without appearance without surgery. And there the woman is posing.

is posing. is posing. Life-changing changes. Are we doing " look-maxing"? Is this what's happening here? happening here? happening here? It's not even quite an app. And I don't even know if it's AI or some Filipino some Filipino some Filipino who will who will who will criticize me, because when you register, you have to wait 3 weeks for the results. So I feel like there's going to be a bunch of people in the background laughing at me. No, I just signed up. I got an ad when I was in San Francisco.

Instant conversion. Did you just stop just stop just stop in the middle of the street, sit down, and download this? Well, they have an Instagram with a million followers, they followers, they followers, they tell you what you can do to improve improve improve your appearance, a nice profile, and many of my attractive my attractive my attractive friends are also following them. So I thought why not give it a try, but I don't know if you've heard of it. Okay , your , your attractive friends. attractive friends.

attractive friends. OK. I think we should let should let should let commentators commentators commentators predict your predict your predict your results before results before results before they come in. Here are some of the indicators. Cheek activation. From 0 to 100. Femininity of the face. This will be difficult. difficult. difficult. Yes. Yes. Yes. Homogeneity. Homogeneity. Homogeneity. Averageness. Averageness. Averageness. Is this good or bad? That's good, right? good, right? good, right? they cut themselves. Wait, do I want to be more homogeneous? more homogeneous? more homogeneous? I think you want to be more homogeneous.

more homogeneous. more homogeneous. Okay. Well. Okay. Well. Okay. Well. Dude, in second grade, a girl I liked I liked I liked called me a monster. I monster. I monster. I liked this liked this liked this girl, she was sitting in front, and my friend, who seemed to know exactly what she was doing. He was adding fuel to the fire. He's like, " Dude, let me tell her that you like her, and maybe she..."—and maybe she..."—and maybe she..."—and he walks up to her. He tells her that she likes you, I see them both them both them both smile, he smile, he smile, he turns to me and I'm like, "And?" "And he says, "She says, "She says, "She thinks you're a monster ."" And I'm like, "Oh." "It wasn't even a 'yes' or 'no'.

She just thinks you're a monster. That's the end of it. I said, 'So what, no?'" ""And he's like, "I think not." What's her name, Gloria? since that time. I think that was my very first memory. Her name was Millie. Millie. Millie. Millie. You, scum. But who, who remembers this? Good. I'd like to talk to you about the wild world of laboratory laboratory laboratory testing on testing on testing on monkeys. monkeys. monkeys. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. You know, I somehow didn't realize it, I never really thought about it.

Well, you know, when you hear about a drug, "Oh, this is phase one clinical clinical clinical trials, trials, trials, phase two." What does this even mean? And what actually actually actually happens on the way to bringing a drug, drug, drug, treatment, or vaccine, whatever, to the market? I had no idea no idea no idea how many drugs are tested on monkeys and how big a business it is, and how strange an ethical issue it is. So can I tell you a little about it? Yes, and what is the scale?

I ...I have no idea. So, in total, over 20% of all drugs are tested on monkeys. on monkeys. on monkeys. And what kind of monkeys are these? Is this the same species? same species? same species? Are they all... There are several types that are used are used are used specifically for this. For example, For example, For example, long-tailed, I don't know how to pronounce it correctly , they are called "tsino". Well, this "cyno" or whatever it is, is the perfect species of monkey for testing. And it's kind of sad, because they're perfect, because they're smarter and closer to people.

If people. If people. If you look at these monkeys in the wild, they are known for grabbing your grabbing your grabbing your phone and taking a selfie with you. They can can can grab your hat, you know, and won't give it back until you give them food. They, like, know the rules of the game. And here's this crazy business: crazy business: crazy business: look, I understand, you don't want the medicine to be tested on people right away. You want to start with mice or rats, but ultimately the closest test subject is a monkey.

Therefore, monkey. Therefore, monkey. Therefore, tens of thousands of monkeys are imported around the world every year. The US, for example, for example, for example, imports 20,000 imports 20,000 imports 20,000 monkeys. And each monkey costs...guess costs...guess costs...guess how much a monkey costs? A thousand? A thousand? A thousand? Almost 20 thousand. One monkey costs 20 thousand? thousand? thousand? Previously, they Previously, they Previously, they cost two cost two cost two thousand each. When COVID started, prices skyrocketed because tests were needed for drugs, vaccines, etc. So the price jumped to jumped to jumped to 20,500 per monkey.

And then it so happened that at that time China was supplying about 60% of the world's supply of what they they they call NHP, or non-human primates. non-human primates. non-human primates. They do everything. China does everything. They breed them, they supply them. China just abruptly stopped everything. They simply "closed the monkey shop." monkey shop." monkey shop." They simply They simply They simply stopped exporting. stopped exporting. stopped exporting. They said, " Look, we'll keep them all to ourselves." Of course. Of course. Of course. And so this huge huge huge supply shock happened.

Prices have skyrocketed to 50,000 per monkey. And Cambodia intervenes, and intervenes, and intervenes, and Vietnam intervenes, Vietnam intervenes, Vietnam intervenes, and Mauritius, or whatever island it is, intervenes and intervenes and intervenes and starts supplying starts supplying starts supplying these monkeys. So the US kind of needs them, needs them, needs them, and the US has these big companies. So, there's this company called company called company called Charles River Labs. Have you ever heard of this business? business? business? Charles River Labs. This sounds like a venture capital firm.

Well, there's Charles River Ventures. So they should not be confused. So, Charles River Labs is in is in is in Boston or somewhere there. They provide They provide They provide research research research testing as a service to all biotech biotech biotech companies so that they don't have to do it themselves. Of course. Of course. Of course. They have mice, rats, dogs, and monkeys, and they do this testing. They testing. They testing. They work with approximately 80% of biotechnology companies. This is madness, the scale is simply amazing.

What's even crazier is that it seems like about 80% of drugs that come to market are tested there. tested there. tested there. They simply have an absolute monopoly. They have $4 billion in revenue per year. Yes, it is a public company. company. company. They bought the monkey breeding business, part of the supply chain, because they were very dependent on these wild price swings. They bought it for $500 million, $500 million, $500 million, simply to better control control control supplies and supplies and supplies and ensure they would n't have a shortage of these primates.

primates. Monkey breeding business? Hey, I want to tell you about something pretty cool. We have a database of all the business ideas business ideas business ideas discussed in discussed in discussed in this podcast. So, hundreds of episodes, the HubSpot team has gone through them, selected all the simple, clear, interesting, clear, interesting, clear, interesting, profitable ideas that we discussed, and they're all available for free free free download. Just download. Just download. Just click the link in the description below. Thank you to our friends at HubSpot for sponsoring this sponsoring this sponsoring this podcast and podcast and podcast and creating this creating this creating this free free free resource for you.

Back to the show. So it would be, for example, in Cambodia or Vietnam, and they essentially certify that they are breeding them specifically for testing. They are not taken from the wild. And wild. And wild. And then they somehow tag them, track them or something. But everything went wrong. So, there's this story in Fortune magazine about this guy. See this guy in the blue shirt with glasses? He's the director of director of director of wildlife in wildlife in wildlife in Cambodia, and these are caged monkeys coming out of this pickup truck, and they're being transported.

And so this guy goes to the US on, you know, a business trip and he just gets detained. You know, they had a warrant for his arrest because they believed that monkeys from the wild were being passed off as lab animals, lab animals, lab animals, bred in captivity, and they were being renamed, rebranded, and rebranded, and rebranded, and sold. And he spent spent spent about a year in prison. He was under house arrest for about a year awaiting trial. awaiting trial. awaiting trial. In America? In America?

In America? Yes, in America. And the Department of Justice supposedly supposedly supposedly confiscated it, which is pretty crazy. pretty crazy. pretty crazy. So, this is a wild world. Have you ever even thought about it ? And so... No, but "confiscated "—is that your new term? I do n't know. I said so. I don't know if I even said that. It was in Fortune magazine. Fortune magazine. Fortune magazine. They should have put him in a monkey cage. monkey cage. monkey cage. They told him. Yes, that's right.

So, this is madness, this is another reminder. You know, one thing this podcast did for me was me was me was rewire my rewire my rewire my brain to understand that when I look around me, nothing here is by accident. Nothing accident. Nothing just appeared. just appeared. just appeared. You know, like the lead that lead that lead that goes into goes into goes into mechanical pencils. There is a company that company that company that makes it. There's a guy you'll meet you'll meet you'll meet on a boat somewhere whose business is just supplying this supplying this supplying this lead, and he knows everything about this business, he goes to meetings where they discuss 3mm and 6mm lead, and it's all business.

This wouldn't exist if it weren't for the entrepreneur who made it a reality. And the world is full of such projects everywhere. more than you think. think. think. And it's always bigger than you think. It's always bigger than... bigger than... bigger than... Can you imagine someone making someone making someone making $500 million $500 million $500 million breeding monkeys? And when you look at the photo, it looked almost like a huge hangar. That photo he showed me. This is madness. And you know, I remember meeting people who were the richest people in my neighborhood when I was growing up.

It's like, "What do you do?" What is your job? And he laughed. He says: “No, there is no work. He says, "I sell, you know , to factories where there's a conveyor belt, conveyor belt, conveyor belt, or, you know, you go through security at the airport, there's a conveyor belt there too?" He says: " The canvas for this tape—we tape—we tape—we produce it." And I'm like, "What? As? What? How did you even start this? " Where does this even come from?" You know, I have an almond farm, a mushroom farm.

I met a guy who makes a dye for the color blue, because blue is not exactly a natural substance natural substance natural substance that you can just find. It needs to be created, like. He says, "I'm doing blue." And I'm like, "Well, I love lamps, sir." "I don't understand what you're talking about." talking about." talking about." And they are richer than you might think. think. think. Another thing I noticed: there are companies doing things that I had no idea even existed, even existed, even existed, and that potentially make a lot of money.

For money. For money. For example, this is my first time reading "The Snow Globe," a biography of Warren Buffett. And I see you mentioned it, but I didn't quite understand what it was about and I didn't want to ask so as not to look stupid. But the point is, there's a shortage of soybean oil, and the bottom line is that one of Warren Buffett's best deals was American Express, because there was a whole scheme at one time: a fraudster realized he could get loans get loans get loans against against against soybean oil stocks.

And, essentially, what he did was this : he had, I don't know, hundreds or dozens of huge huge huge tanks where he stored that oil. And let's say all this oil was worth $5 million, $5 million, $5 million, he could take out a loan for $4 million secured by this oil. He went to, I think, 50 different banks and got a bunch of different loans, which is fraud. But fraud. But fraud. But then he pulled a double fraud, double fraud, double fraud, because in order to get the credits, he hired American Express to confirm that the oil he declared he declared he declared was actually in the tanks.

But he noticed that when they checked, there was a way to trick them, and he ended up filling these huge these huge these huge tanks with tanks with tanks with seawater, salt water. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it was a fake. Oil did not exist. Due to a number of political reasons, political reasons, political reasons, the deal with Russia, under which they were going to import or import or import or sell them a lot of oil, fell through. America said: "No, we will not do business with the USSR." So the price of soybean oil fell, the market crashed, and all these creditors said, "Hey, soybean guy, you owe us money." And he's like, " Well, the thing is, there's no such thing as soybean oil." " That's why I can't pay you." And because American Express was the guarantor—it was the company that promised the lenders that the soybean oil was available—it was they who had to pay this huge penalty.

And Warren Buffett walks in and says, "You know, American know, American know, American Express stock is down right now." And many people didn't even realize that realize that realize that they were even checking checking checking soybean oil stocks. But I have a feeling, judging from my visits to visits to visits to restaurants and restaurants and restaurants and conversations with conversations with conversations with waiters, that people who use who use who use American Express don't really give a damn about it . . . They still believe that American Express is reliable, well, you know, for credit cards.

And I read about it and thought, " Oh, that's a crazy story." "And secondly, American Express is doing soybean soybean soybean oil testing." You have no idea how many strange and strange and strange and diverse diverse diverse businesses there are. And, by the way, it was a business with a turnover of hundreds of millions of dollars a year—to year—to year—to check this check this check this soybean oil. And it was one of those moments when I thought: I can't believe this is even possible. I never...

And I think that crisis was so big that, although it didn't collapse the economy, it did, I think, damage to many companies to the tune of tens or hundreds of billions of dollars. Yes, it's all hidden in plain sight. And the more stories like these you absorb, you absorb, you absorb, the more likely two things will happen. First, your brain your brain your brain is rewired, and you begin to understand that the world is simply full of gaps that that that business founders fill. And you start to realize: oh, that was a gap, and someone filled it.

It was a gap, and someone filled it. So you start to find gaps and think: Could I fill this one? And it changes you. This is what the entrepreneurial brain really comes down to : seeing : seeing : seeing the world not as a set of fixed, fixed, fixed, decided things that parents will take care of, but as a place full of opportunities that opportunities that opportunities that can simply be taken and changed. You can literally bend literally bend literally bend the world under you and create it anew.

And on the other hand, you understand that there is a lot of business hidden in strange corners of the world world world . You can make a lot of money doing things that are off the beaten path, because there is an arbitrage between what smart people smart people smart people learn in learn in learn in everyday life everyday life everyday life or in education. That's why you see so many programmers programmers programmers building to-do building to-do building to-do list apps or dating apps—they're dating apps—they're looking for problems that every intelligent person faces.

You should just stay away from it and do and do and do something they have n't even heard of. They don't know too much about it, about it, about it, you know? Choose a niche that is not crowded with very smart and smart and smart and ambitious people, and you will be playing against weak competitors. weak competitors. How do you think this can be done? Because it's really hard. really hard. It's hard to find problems worth problems worth problems worth solving that are 100% outside outside outside your scope of work.

work. For example, we met a guy in San Francisco who had a business related to dentists. It dentists. It dentists. It helped, it was... Back offices of dental dental dental clinics. So, it was called Daydream Dental. Here's what they did: you're a dentist, you have a back office, and there sits Debbie, who spends most of her day calling insurance calling insurance calling insurance companies, companies, companies, reading reading reading billing codes, trying to submit and reconcile bills, checking bills, checking bills, checking patients' insurance. patients' insurance. patients' insurance.

And this whole process is actually a source of income for the business, and you know what? It often happens that happens that happens that invoices are rejected, issued issued issued incorrectly, money does not arrive, etc. So this is a very unprofitable very unprofitable very unprofitable part of the business. You would think that you come to come to come to the dentist, pay the money, and that's it. The matter is done. But in reality, the dental dental dental industry works industry works industry works differently. So he comes to comes to comes to the dentist and says, " Hey, let us take over this function ." "We'll ." "We'll ." "We'll use AI, use AI, use AI, smart people, and computers to computers to computers to do it better than Debbie, so you don't have to hire a bunch of staff and incur huge incur huge incur huge overhead costs." "We will hire these people ourselves." We specialize in specialize in specialize in this feature for you and will help you get 15–20% more 15–20% more 15–20% more profit than you are simply losing.

" Here is the proposal." And he, it seems, was already in his second year second year second year receiving about receiving about receiving about $10 million in income per year, something like that. You can listen to the episode to find out all the details. But we asked, "How did you come up with this idea?" Because he's either a Stanford graduate or a Stanford dropout . He's one of those guys you guys you guys you think of: think of: think of: my cousin. my cousin. my cousin.

Yes, he didn't hang around dentist around dentist around dentist offices. Well, he had great teeth, but he didn't look like the kind of person who would do such dirty such dirty such dirty work. And he replied, "Oh, my mom was a dentist." Yes, he said, "As a teenager, I teenager, I teenager, I worked at a dental dental dental clinic every summer." And I said, " The best gift — even though your mom will brag about it — financially, is that your mom was a small small small business owner, and you were able to see these problems from the inside." And how lucky you were to be born in such conditions where you simply opened your eyes to reality.

We had another guy who was in charge of maintaining the generators. That is, for example, a nursing home with an industrial industrial industrial generator cannot generator cannot generator cannot afford a afford a afford a power outage even for an hour, because it is a huge problem. huge problem. huge problem. Or a hospital—you can't let the let the lights go out in the hospital in the middle of a heart operation. heart operation. heart operation. His job was installing and installing and installing and maintaining maintaining maintaining generators, and this business could eventually become a $100 million or even a billion dollar company.

He told me how he came to this: it was a winding path, he said, he worked at a company where we were doing a doing a doing a consulting consulting consulting project, I got involved, and then I met another guy in this field. And I asked myself why I envy people who do such "dirty" such "dirty" such "dirty" technological technological technological work and find problems problems problems that I did n't even n't even n't even know existed. know existed. know existed. It is the art of noticing details.

I told him that I had spent several months studying months studying months studying how the how the how the most creative people in the world worked. How do the best writers work ? The best musicians? The best directors? Because , you know, I've spent most of my life studying the work of outstanding entrepreneurs outstanding entrepreneurs , and it's a lot of brute force, high force, high force, high initiative, initiative, initiative, big-picture thinking, and constant hustle. And, you know, of course, you can't do without without without creativity here, but I thought: "Well, I'll go and learn from those who specialize specialize specialize in this." If you listen to what Rick Rubin or the great comedians say, it all comes down to observation.

observation. observation. Actually, that's why comedians, having become rich and rich and rich and famous, famous, famous, lose their talent. Because it was the struggle of the ordinary person that gave them the ideas that, when voiced from the stage, resonated with resonated with resonated with everyone in the audience. But when you fly private jets, private jets, private jets, have four have four have four nannies, a chef, and everything else, you no longer face the same problems as the average person. So you stop you stop you stop delivering brilliant delivering brilliant delivering brilliant insights that insights that insights that resonate with your audience like truth spoken out loud.

Therefore, it is worth creating a system where you will encounter interesting encounter interesting encounter interesting things, and develop the habit of noticing them, paying attention to them , writing them down, slowing down, slowing down, slowing down, being less busy and distracted, being distracted, being distracted, being more present. And this is where greatness lies. Remember, Mark Manson was on the podcast, he has an incredibly popular incredibly popular incredibly popular book, right? You created one of the best-selling best-selling best-selling nonfiction books in history—The Subtle history—The Subtle history—The Subtle Art of Scoring at Everything.

He wrote it, even though he had been blogging before, had written thousands of posts, but nothing really really really resonated. Nothing else has been as successful successful as this idea. And, um, where did that name come from? He said, "Oh, I actually really liked that band." And the band had a song called "The Subtle Art of Something Over There ." This was something different, the last part was different. He said, "And I just noticed that I really I really I really liked that title. I remember I couldn't name the other 15 songs on the album, but I remembered that one ." So I wrote it down, and that became the title of the book.

And that means that means that means that observation is a real superpower. real superpower. real superpower. This is a superpower for entrepreneurs. Paul Graham wrote an essay called "How called "How called "How to Do Great Work." And what he describes is a kind of step-by-step system. And I just...it's I just...it's I just...it's about a 3,000-word essay. This is probably one of his most important essays, but it's so long. In it, he essentially says, "Look, here's the formula. You want to want to want to just follow the path of greatest greatest greatest passion first.

The thing that interests you the most." And he's basically saying, "Listen, there are two aspects to this. One, having a genuine interest in something is very motivating. So you're going to work harder than others. You're going to have more stamina more stamina more stamina than others." And he adds, "The second is differentiation, because what interests you is not what interests most interests most interests most people. And so you have a specific, so to speak, set of preferences." And if you really really really follow this, follow this, follow this, you will find yourself where there is less competition.

less competition. less competition. So, he says, "Let your passion or interest be both the engine of the boat and its rudder. It's like the engine that motivates you and the rudder that directs where to sail." He says, "Okay, you take this boat, you let it go, and you just follow it to the very edge of the frontier of the industry that you're working in, the field or the technology that you're dealing with." Go to the very edge. If it's a lead for this pencil—let it be a lead.

If it's a conveyor belt— conveyor belt— let it be a conveyor belt, whatever it is . "And he says: When you're on the border, and when you're far from it—the border border border just looks like a circle, like a continuous line." continuous line." continuous line." But if you get all the way there, you'll notice: "Like this." You have to step over these gaps that exist ." People don't know that. They don't , they don't know how to do it. Oh, you have to do it manually.

Nobody's going to do it for you. It's pretty exhausting. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's hard as hell. And it's only when you're there, on the edge, that you find these gaps. And then the entrepreneurial step entrepreneurial step is just deciding to fill one of them. And it starts with what you notice. you notice. you notice. That's a very good summary of that article. Paul Graham is another guy who... I don't know if... he can be an artist. I don't know what he thinks of himself as.

I think he really does. really does. really does. I think he's... uh... about traditional about traditional about traditional art, and also when he writes, it's amazing how he takes something, well, it's like "How "How "How to Win Friends and Influence People," Influence People," Influence People," where they tell you certain things in the book and you're like, "That's obvious." But the way it's presented makes it much more important and important and important and insightful than I thought it would be before. And it's really important and insightful.

insightful. insightful. Sure. Sure. Sure. So I was wondering how to stay, as Eddie Murphy calls it , sensitive. I told you what Eddie Murphy said, right? He had that documentary documentary , and he said, "I'm a great comedian for a lot of reasons. One of them is I'm extremely sensitive to everything. If I'm giving my car to the valet and he comes back and it smells just a little different, I can make a joke about that subtle smell. subtle smell. subtle smell. Or if I notice a subtle dent subtle dent , I can notice it faster than other people because I notice it better than they do, and they're just not sensitive enough ." ." ." Yeah, Jerry Yeah, Jerry Yeah, Jerry Seinfeld has a book called Is This Worth It ?

Have you ever read it? read it? read it? No. No. No. It's... well, Jerry Seinfeld has a daily habit of writing. Every morning, the first two hours of the day, he sits down with a notebook and a pencil and a coffee, and he just writes . He just writes jokes. And he says, you know, "Writing is a game." So he's been doing this for 40 years. So he collected all these yellow pages of pages of pages of half-finished half-finished half-finished jokes, and the book is called "Is This Worth Anything?" Because most jokes don't jokes don't jokes don't go anywhere.

They... And he just asks himself, "Is there anything in there? Is there anything in there, is this worth anything?" And he collected them all in a book, and one of his jokes is about how he noticed : have you ever been on the phone and the line line line goes out, and the other person calls back and says, "Hi, yeah, sorry, I don't know what happened." He just noticed that we always say that, and he asks, "Why does everyone keep saying, 'I don't know what happened'?" Of course you don't know what happened.

I don't even know what's going on with this call right now. Do you think I could explain what went wrong? I can't even tell you what's going on with it . I don't I know how phones work. He just noticed how ridiculous it is to say, " I don't know what happened," as if you have any power or control or understanding about how my phone my phone my phone magically connects magically connects magically connects to yours. And the reason I'm excited about that is because no one will ever practice it.

No one will ever say they do it. It doesn't sound cool. So there are a few traits that are incredibly important, but everyone else ignores them or doesn't even know what to do with them, so they just don't just don't just don't try. Imagine try. Imagine try. Imagine this: If you want to be the best Fortnite player in the world, you're competing against tens of millions of other kids who are doing it every day. You're entering an extremely extremely extremely competitive competitive competitive environment. But environment.

But environment. But imagine that there's another game with the same prize pool as the Fortnite World Cup, but it only has seven players. That's what happens to happens to happens to some of these traits, like mindfulness. I said another one another one is enthusiasm. is enthusiasm. is enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is a very underrated trait. Everyone knows that it's better to work with someone who's enthusiastic. Everyone enthusiastic. Everyone knows that enthusiasm is a positive trait, but smart people feel feel feel awkward when they show it. It's like a low-status thing low-status thing low-status thing for a smart person to be to be to be enthusiastic.

You enthusiastic. You enthusiastic. You come across as a bit of a dork, like a golden retriever. golden retriever. golden retriever. So what? Everyone wants to have that kind of person around them. We love golden golden golden retrievers. And retrievers. And retrievers. And it's actually a very useful trait for doing a difficult job—being job—being job—being enthusiastic every day, instead of instead of instead of being overwhelmed by the reality of your situation. So there are a handful of traits that smart people refuse refuse refuse to work on, which makes this field this field this field uncompetitive.

You uncompetitive. You uncompetitive. You can just can just can just dominate it with minimal minimal minimal effort. effort. effort. It's something I think about all the time, and I've never found an answer that answer that answer that really works for me . But how do you find a job you love? You said it was the step that precedes everything else. But every time I read about Jerry Seinfeld and his habit of writing every day... I think, how did you get so lucky to find something so obsessive at such a young age?

And I often ask myself, how do you find something to be obsessed with? And can anyone can anyone can anyone be obsessed with anything? I anything? I anything? I can be can be can be passionate about something for a while, but I'm not the kind of person who can who can who can stick to one thing for 20 years, dedicating 40 hours a week to it. You know, I can be moderately be moderately interested in something for a long time, but not obsessed. I'm not obsessed.

Do you really you really you really think that? Do you seriously think that you do n't have things to be obsessed with ? Dude, I think you're the complete complete complete opposite. opposite. opposite. No, I'm passionate about fitness. You were obsessed with denim. You were obsessed with the media business. You were obsessed with obsessed with business research. We're almost out of a thousand episodes of this podcast. You can't spend a thousand hours talking about niche business ideas. Trust me, you're obsessed with them. It doesn't feel like an obsession.

I obsession. I obsession. I don't even know. I just think when I look at other people, they have it and I don't. Of course, I can look at my past and past and past and argue with that, but I'm talking about about about the average the average the average person in general: Have you ever thought about finding something to be passionate about, or is it possible to become obsessed? obsessed? I think everyone is capable of it, but not many people do. I think there are two interesting things I can say about that.

The first is, look at your childhood. childhood. childhood. Yeah, that's what Robert Greene says. Yeah, if you read people's advice on how to do that, they often say, often say, often say, look back at your childhood or childhood or childhood or look at look at look at what you did in your free time. While it may be an adult's free time , as you get older our free time is shrinking into smaller and smaller spaces. And you know, you fill your fill your fill your free time with things to do or things to "have" to do.

But when you're a kid, you don't really think about what you have to do. You just think about what you want to do. So as a kid, you kid, you kid, you get into different things. You go down these rabbit holes, into different phases, and then you grow out of them. But they often have commonalities. So, you know, I was obsessed with this video game, and then I got cold feet about it, and then I got into online poker. And online poker has a lot in common with that video game, if you think about it, even though I didn't think of poker as a video game.

I became obsessed with business, and now I'm kind of obsessed with obsessed with obsessed with investing. And investing. And investing. And they all have one thing in common , right? It's like a game where there are points, and it does n't matter what they're called—stars, called—stars, called—stars, points, money, or ROI, whatever, right? whatever, right? Like the internal rate of return (IRR)—it's a different different different scorecard, but the idea is the same. It's a competitive game, where there are opponents, there's a strategy, and it's hard to win, but it's fun, and you have to do trial and error to figure it out.

So I like like like strategy games. And I've always I've always I've always liked liked liked strategy games. I've always... It's very easy for me to get obsessed with a strategy game. Do you like board games? games? games? Yeah, I love board games. I love, I love social social social strategy games. I love to watch Survivor . I . I . I love to play card games where you have to lie, where you have to , you know, bluff a little bit . It's poker, but there are other social card social card social card games like that.

You know, you start to see patterns, and you have to think about it. So there's a great story about Dan Brown. You know Dan Brown, the author of The Da Vinci Code, who is one of the most best-selling best-selling best-selling detective thrillers detective thrillers detective thrillers in history, and " Angels and Demons." He has, he has a whole bunch of those books. He's a great author of these treasure hunt books , where the hero is trying to find something, and it's a race where he's collecting clues and solving puzzles.

He's puzzles. He's puzzles. He's solving a mystery. So when he was a kid, his dad did something did something did something really cool for him that kind of ignited this passion in him . Every . Every . Every Christmas, instead of presents under presents under presents under the tree, his dad would put a treasure map. Oh, that's cool. And he'd wake up, and while every kid is just unwrapping a present... His present... His present... His gift was, "Here's a map for you." Go find it." He was setting setting setting him up on a quest to find his find his find his presents.

And presents. And presents. And guess what? That pivotal memory and moment really moment really moment really ignited his love for the idea of treasure hunting. And if you look at The Da Vinci Code, what is it? It's a story about a treasure hunt. And he tells it better than anyone else on Earth. And he paid attention to the things that things that things that interested him and that he loved as a child. We find things that interest us, but we just brush just brush just brush them off.

We just ignore them as if they're trivial or meaningless. They're meaningless. They're meaningless. They're irrelevant, childish, irrelevant, childish, irrelevant, childish, silly, or frivolous. I should be doing something serious. But people who pay attention to things that seem seem seem frivolous take a simple idea, simple idea, simple idea, take it take it take it seriously, and seriously, and seriously, and turn it into something important. I'll give you a perfect example of that. I just took a trip to Toronto. I went to Toronto to Toronto to Toronto to celebrate because we just had a huge win, a big business success.

I'll talk about it later, when I can talk about it publicly, but it was the biggest win in my business. So we flew as a team—me, the team—me, the team—me, the CEO, CEO, CEO, and Ben—we flew together. We thought, " Let's celebrate." Let's celebrate." Let's celebrate." But the first thought was, "Maybe to Vegas?" And the thought of Vegas just makes me tired. You know, I don't want to drink. I don't want to party. If the three of us went to a club, we'd be like three idiots.

You know, one of us doesn't even drink. So we went to Toronto. One of the reasons was we had a great day playing day playing day playing padel, which I'd never played before played before . I loved padel. I padel. I padel. I knew right away, oh, this is a new hobby for life. We went to an escape room, which is just incredible. It's like a real castle. There are actors in it. I've never been to an escape room like this before. The ones I've been to before are little boxes with toys inside.

toys inside. toys inside. I love those. Man, I love escape love escape rooms. It's pretty much the same thing. Strategy, mystery, mystery, mystery, solving solving solving puzzles—that's what puzzles—that's what puzzles—that's what I like. And that's how I decided I decided I decided to celebrate. So, get to know yourself. But the other guys were like, "Sean, we should go to go to go to strip club." And we're just going to play Colonizers and Colonizers and Colonizers and try to get out of this room. Well, no, that's the beauty of it: if you do something that you really like , you're going to repel people who want to hang out in strip clubs and attract people who are like you.

Those are going to be really easy people easy people to work with, right? Because you attract like-minded people . It becomes a kind of magnet. magnet. magnet. So, what's the second thing? You said, uh... said, uh... said, uh... So, the first thing is to look back at your at your at your childhood, remember what you loved back then. And the second thing is, don't dismiss it. You don't... You have to be a little bit shameless about it. And I'll give you... So why are we even talking about this?

Well, our friend who friend who friend who used to come on the show, Alan Lee. Alan Lee was one of the creators of the board game Exploding Kittens. He built a huge--I don't know if he spoke the numbers publicly, but just a huge business in business in business in board games and card games. If you go into the game section at Target, you'll see that seven of the top ten most popular games in the world are his creations. You know, it's basically a monopoly. So, why am I...

I was at his house. He has a house in Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. I think he was telling us he was building it. He even showed us pictures. Is this a dream house? dream house? dream house? Well, it wasn't the dream house. It was the house he house he house he lives in while this huge this huge this huge dream house is being built. And I go up to his office. And his office is like a toy store. toy store. toy store. Not only does he have all his games, but he also has these crazy crazy crazy LEGO structures that he builds.

He puts LEDs in them . It's . It's . It's just an incredible structure. He's like a kid, right? He still does what he loved as a kid. He still does it now. He had a dinosaur egg, a real, fossilized fossilized fossilized dinosaur egg. And he says, "If kiss it or lick it, you can sign the book." So I kissed the dinosaur egg. I signed the book. And I thought, "This is worth millions of dollars." And he doesn't even have it in the window. He says, " How boring." " Eight-year-old me Eight-year-old me Eight-year-old me would think this sucks." "I sucks." "I sucks." "I can't even can't even can't even touch it." touch it." touch it." Eight-year-old me would want to touch touch touch it and show it to my friends.

So he took out the egg. He lets his friends touch it and kiss it and lick it. And then he showed me that there was an Xbox. And he says, " This is the first Xbox." I'm like, "Dude, how did you... How much did it cost? You... He's like, "Oh, I got it , they , they , they gave it to me." I'm like, "Well, how did you do it?" "He says, 'Well, I designed it.' I'm like, 'What?' "He says, 'My first job was Xbox , you know, Microsoft gave me a bunch of money and a team and said, ' Design a competitor to PlayStation.'" So this is the first prototype we ever built.

built. built. I'm very proud of him." Wait, just Wait, just to give you a quick idea of ​​this guy, he's ...he's incredibly ...he's incredibly ...he's incredibly rich. Uh, like, who knows? Maybe it's a billion-dollar company, billion-dollar company, billion-dollar company, who knows? Let's say he's a hundred- millionaire or a billionaire. He says to us, a group of guys, 20 of us, he says, "Hey, do you want to see my new game? "And he gets on all fours, takes out these glasses, tries to kind of look, he's like , okay.

, okay. , okay. He takes out a monocle? What do you call a monocle when you have two of them? No. Okay, so these were glasses. Here are the arms, right? They're what you need to keep the glasses on your face. He had glasses that were just two lenses. lenses. lenses. Yeah, and they were kind of balanced. balanced. balanced. on his nose in perfect balance. perfect balance. perfect balance. And he was wearing sweatpants and sweatpants and sweatpants and socks. It was... actually, I'm trying to say.

He was like an old kid. He's not really old, but he's like an adult kid. And he's on all fours, and he's like, " Okay." So you just got this card. I think that means you means you means you have to do it. a blank deck blank deck blank deck that he could just take a marker and come up with a game on the spot. That's kind of what he was doing for us. us. us. And he was kind of testing to see, and he's like, "This means do it." And he was looking to see if I really I'll go and do this, and would I be happy to do it.

And he was kind of testing the prototype on us. Like he was testing our testing our testing our reactions. Like a comedian testing his testing his testing his jokes in public to see if they were worth watching. And it's so funny that he did it so casually, and I found it very inspiring. inspiring. So if you think about this guy, he didn't just dismiss it and say, "Yeah, this is fun, but it's time to get to work." to work." He just He just kept kept kept doing it until it became his job, and he became the best in the world at it— making games, playing games, making making making games that people love.

So he did n't just n't just n't just brush it off . And when we were hanging out together, he would tell me about escape rooms. So I thought I thought I thought I liked escape liked escape rooms. And I thought our trip to the escape room was a pretty big indulgence for my passions. Dude, passions. Dude, passions. Dude, he travels the world with a group of 15 geeks, testing every testing every testing every escape room, or the best escape rooms in the world. He goes on, like, a bachelor party, every couple of years, testing years, testing years, testing the best escape rooms in the world and trying to escape them with his friends, and that's how he relaxes.

That was just one of the things he does. And I was like, "Wow, this guy, if you took the restrictions or the filter off, it's like, 'Yeah, that's me,' but it would be a little weird ." So let me keep a little bit of that to myself. It's like, "No, dude." What, what did you say in your office before? office before? office before? Let your Let your Let your weirdness out, baby. That's right. And that's what he does. And I think that's part two. Notice what Notice what Notice what turns you on, and then let it go .

. . It's so cool. Dude, okay. So I just got back from a 7-day trip to San- Francisco. Can you tell me one of my main my main my main findings? You did that with New York. You had a lot of them. I had one major one. So, OK. OK. OK. San Francisco is the best city on Earth, in my opinion, to evoke a sense of awe. So the definition, or to paraphrase paraphrase paraphrase the definition, is essentially experiencing essentially experiencing essentially experiencing both a sense of grandeur, which grandeur, which grandeur, which means something really big, something that feels feels feels infinite or infinite or infinite or incredibly old, and at the same time it's something that kind of disrupts disrupts disrupts your mental your mental your mental system, your system, your system, your mental schema.

So your brain has to do this thing called accommodation, where you have to change the way you think in order to fit what you're seeing into your schema. And it's a bit like what we call " frame breaking." And it can't it can't it can't just be spectacular, you know, it can't just be something big. It has to be so big so big so big or epic that it's different from what I'm used to and how I define life. And that's the emotion of awe. Well, I was just going to look at the exact definition, which is very similar to yours, but with a little twist.

So it says that awe is an intense feeling of deep respect, deep respect, deep respect, wonder, and admiration, often mixed with a little fear or anxiety, which is also common in in in San Francisco. San Francisco. Yes, I felt that. But I want to explain why I felt awe in a good way, because not all awe is bad . You can feel awe before a terrible thing. Like when you read about World War II, you can feel can feel can feel awe, and that's not necessarily a necessarily a necessarily a good thing.

But actually, what's interesting about awe is that I've noticed—and I think I've not just read a little bit about it, but this is partly my opinion —it reduces —it reduces —it reduces anxiety and anxiety and anxiety and depression because it creates an emotion that diminishes your own self. Often anxiety and depression exist depression exist depression exist because you are the center of all your problems. It's basically me, me, me, and you all the time. think about yourself. And I think we all need to be self-reflective.

I self-reflective. I mean, we need to be thinking about problems all the time , but when you're feeling awe, feeling awe, feeling awe, the opportunities that exist either seem much bigger much bigger much bigger than you think or just not that important, and you stop thinking about yourself and start thinking more about what you see. And when I'm in San Francisco, I drive through the Presidio, and you see these huge hills, and you see the views. And I've noticed that seeing horizons, especially horizons, especially horizons, especially when it's a big view, like the ocean -- you're over the ocean and you can look out over it -- it gives me this deep sense of peace, a deep sense of, well, awe, actually.

And I think it's an incredibly exciting, but also a very inspiring very inspiring very inspiring emotion. And I left San Francisco San Francisco San Francisco thinking that it's the best feeling on Earth. Earth. Well, you described the natural side of it. I'm surprised you didn't mention the mention the mention the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial entrepreneurial excitement, which is also You feel it. Because we sat there all day , and every 20 minutes, a new founder would come in and sit in front of us. We basically did an episode where nine founders founders founders talked about what they were working on.

So, it's like sitting in the hot seat, hot seat, hot seat, you tell us what you do, you give us the numbers, and we dive into the details of your business. What did you think of that? You're a New Yorker, you're used to the hustle and bustle, but in San Francisco, the businesses are different, and the people who run them are completely different. completely different. completely different. I thought it was fantastic. More fantastic. More fantastic. More than the businesses themselves, what I like about San Francisco is that for me, as an outsider, there was a lot a lot a lot more quirkiness more quirkiness , a lot more " nerdiness," more of a defiance of the norm, which I really love and find a lot of inspiration from.

For example, we met this met this met this guy, who was Indian. He built a machine that made us made us made us fettuccine. Alfredo, an Italian dish, and I thought, "How ridiculous and wonderful is it that an Indian man who talks about his childhood in India is now using a robot to cook us Italian food?" "And I thought, this is a really weird, really weird, really weird, cool thing, and we were talking to these weird, these weird, these weird, cool people, and there was a lot of that.

Yeah, San Francisco has the most startup ideas that sound terrible and probably are than anywhere else anywhere else anywhere else where there are entrepreneurs. Because a lot of other entrepreneurs are doing, well, you know, if you go to New York, you'll meet a lot of, say, media say, media entrepreneurs. And they're doing media, and media is understandable, and that's good. It's really a performance-based business. Whereas in San Francisco, you're just kind of panning for gold, and most of the time you're just finding dirt and sand.

And I could tell you, there's probably just just just dirt there. But every now and then someone finds someone finds someone finds gold, and that's what keeps everyone everyone going with these weird, uncharted, weird, uncharted, weird, uncharted, random ideas. The diversity of ideas there is just completely different than anywhere else you might you might you might find businesses. find businesses. find businesses. I think If I were 20 or 22 years old and I was just out of college and I was even slightly interested in technology, I would definitely think that this is the best field.

best field. best field. Yeah, I agree. I agree . . . I just started reading it. Have you heard of the book "The Art Thief"? Art Thief"? Art Thief"? No. It's a very, very popular book. I'm just starting out, but it's the story of a guy, the true story of an art thief who stole , I think, $3 billion worth of art. And what makes this book incredible, and what makes this guy such a fascinating character, is that he never sold never sold never sold any any any art.

He stole them because he had a code of conduct. He thought he was doing the right thing: " You can't steal art that art that art that hurts people, and you have to do it in the middle of the day , while the museum is open." Like, there shouldn't be any big-name robberies. big-name robberies. big-name robberies. So he was a genius, you could say, in how he would go into a museum, and when... He when... He when... He studied the guards for weeks, and when they would go to After a shift, he would quickly unscrew quickly unscrew quickly unscrew the screw, put it in his pocket, and just walk away.

And he would do this over and over again until he got the piece he wanted. And the craziest thing is, when he when he when he got arrested, he had his girlfriend with him, who was an accomplice. They were living in his mother's apartment, in a tiny room. And in that room was room was about about $3 billion worth of art. It was paintings, was paintings, was paintings, trinkets, and he had this famous statue . Google the statue of Adam and Eve. It's the size of a shoebox, but it's a beautiful statue.

And I think it's think it's think it's worth tens of millions of dollars. He kept it on his bedside table table table because he said art shouldn't art shouldn't art shouldn't be in a museum where some guide tells a memorized story and you barely pay barely pay barely pay attention to it. He said it should be in my room, where I can wake up, wake up, wake up, touch it, and really to experience this work of art. Is it strange to have so much respect and respect and respect and admiration for this true criminal?

true criminal? true criminal? Because I do. Yes, it's strange, but it brings us back to the idea of ​​awe, and not all awe is good. So good. So good. So yes, I can acknowledge that he did something wrong, and at the same time I can admire admire admire how perfect how perfect how perfect his code was, even when he was stealing. It's related to what you're saying: he was so fascinated by it because his grandfather liked to go on the beach with a metal detector, so he became obsessed with treasure hunting, treasure hunting, treasure hunting, like Dan like Dan like Dan Brown, and he became obsessed with art .

So it's a pretty interesting story, and I ask myself, "Why am I so drawn to this story ?" and you explain part of why: because enthusiasm is contagious. contagious. contagious. Okay, I don't know how we got here, but it was amazing. I have to run. So let's get let's get let's get this over with. That's it . That was the podcast.