3 killer businesses hiding in plain sight

Guess how much a Guess how much a monkey costs. I do monkey costs. I do monkey costs. I do n't know. 1000 dollars? n't know. 1000 dollars? n't know. 1000 dollars? Almost 20,000. Almost 20,000. Almost 20,000. One monkey costs 20 One monkey costs 20 One monkey costs 20 thousand? Before thousand? Before thousand? Before we start, can you we start, can you we start, can you check the condition of my check the condition of my check the condition of my hair, dude? I hair, dude? I hair, dude? I think I've reached a point where I think I've reached a point where I think I've reached a point where I need to need to need to start accepting something. start accepting something. start accepting something. You know, when I You know, when I You know, when I wear a hat every day, I wear a hat every day, I wear a hat every day, I feel like I'm feel like I'm feel like I'm literally throwing up a literally throwing up a literally throwing up a white flag with that white flag with that white flag with that hat. That hat. That hat. That maybe, just maybe, I'm going maybe, just maybe, I'm going maybe, just maybe, I'm going a little bald on a little bald on a little bald on top. top. top. What would you accept? It What would you accept? It What would you accept? It starts with "R". starts with "R". starts with "R". Like, it's an "R" word. Er Like, it's an "R" word. Er -er, re... -er, re... -er, re... Nutrifol. Oh yes, there is a Nutrifol. Oh yes, there is a Nutrifol. Oh yes, there is a common name for common name for common name for them, and there are also branded ones. them, and there are also branded ones. them, and there are also branded ones. But like Modafinil, But like Modafinil, But like Modafinil, something there, something there. Does that something there, something there. Does that something there, something there. Does that sound right? It sound right? It sound right? It sounds like something sounds like something sounds like something like that. like that. like that. One of their drawbacks One of their drawbacks One of their drawbacks seems to be a flaccid seems to be a flaccid seems to be a flaccid penis. penis. penis. Of course. Well, it could Of course. Well, it could Of course. Well, it could be two in one. I'm be two in one. I'm be two in one. I'm done with the done with the done with the kids. So, you know. kids. So, you know. kids. So, you know. I was thinking about a I was thinking about a I was thinking about a vasectomy. Maybe we vasectomy. Maybe we vasectomy. Maybe we don't need to don't need to don't need to do this. This is so funny, do this. This is so funny, do this. This is so funny, man. Ben, as you man. Ben, as you man. Ben, as you know, you never know, you never know, you never see Ben without a see Ben without a see Ben without a hat, well, for hat, well, for hat, well, for similar reasons. And he similar reasons. And he similar reasons. And he met a guy, and he's met a guy, and he's met a guy, and he's like, "Oh, I have, I'm on like, "Oh, I have, I'm on like, "Oh, I have, I'm on hair protocol hair protocol hair protocol from this guy." And I'm from this guy." And I'm from this guy." And I'm like, "What? Like, what do like, "What? Like, what do like, "What? Like, what do you have? A Turkish you have? A Turkish you have? A Turkish guy? Who did you guy? Who did you guy? Who did you find?" He's like, " find?" He's like, " No, no, no, this is my friend. No, no, no, this is my friend. No, no, no, this is my friend. He set me up for He set me up for He set me up for this protocol." And you this protocol." And you this protocol." And you know, "protocol" became a know, "protocol" became a know, "protocol" became a buzzword after buzzword after buzzword after Human and Brian Human and Brian Human and Brian Johnson. I'm like, "What do Johnson. I'm like, "What do Johnson. I'm like, "What do you mean? He you mean? He you mean? He gave you a pill? Is that gave you a pill? Is that gave you a pill? Is that protocol?" And he's like protocol?" And he's like , "No, no, no, I have to , "No, no, no, I have to , "No, no, no, I have to do do do red light therapy, red light therapy, red light therapy, do this, apply do this, apply do this, apply serum, blah blah serum, blah blah blah." Okay. So I blah." Okay. So I blah." Okay. So I asked, "So how's it going?" asked, "So how's it going?" asked, "So how's it going?" And he's like, uh, he's And he's like, uh, he's And he's like, uh, he's like, "I don't know, man. You'll like, "I don't know, man. You'll like, "I don't know, man. You'll tell me when tell me when tell me when you see me." So, I you see me." So, I you see me." So, I just saw him just saw him just saw him yesterday. He has a yesterday. He has a yesterday. He has a beard now. beard now. beard now. Oh, a thick beard? Oh, a thick beard? Oh, a thick beard? He has a beard, but his He has a beard, but his He has a beard, but his hair looks the hair looks the hair looks the same. So, something is working a little same. So, something is working a little same. So, something is working a little . This is very . This is very . This is very funny. The beard funny. The beard funny. The beard looks great. I have to looks great. I have to looks great. I have to admit it. Did admit it. Did admit it. Did you see? There is such an you see? There is such an you see? There is such an app, I know app, I know app, I know I was just inundated with I was just inundated with I was just inundated with ads about it. ads about it. ads about it. This is qoves.com. So, this is q o v e This is qoves.com. So, this is q o v e This is qoves.com. So, this is q o v e s.com. I was just s.com. I was just s.com. I was just bombarded with ads for bombarded with ads for bombarded with ads for this app, and I this app, and I this app, and I bought it. It bought it. It bought it. It costs $150. costs $150. costs $150. The advertising worked. The advertising worked. The advertising worked. Improve your Improve your Improve your appearance without appearance without appearance without surgery. And there the woman surgery. And there the woman surgery. And there the woman is posing. is posing. is posing. Life-changing changes. Are Life-changing changes. Are Life-changing changes. Are we doing " we doing " look-maxing"? Is this what's look-maxing"? Is this what's look-maxing"? Is this what's happening here? happening here? happening here? It's not even quite an It's not even quite an It's not even quite an app. And I don't even app. And I don't even app. And I don't even know if it's AI or know if it's AI or know if it's AI or some Filipino some Filipino some Filipino who will who will who will criticize me, because when criticize me, because when criticize me, because when you register, you you register, you have to wait 3 have to wait 3 weeks for the results. So I feel like weeks for the results. So I feel like weeks for the results. So I feel like there's going to be a bunch of there's going to be a bunch of there's going to be a bunch of people in the background people in the background laughing at me. No, I laughing at me. No, I just signed up. I just signed up. I just signed up. I got an ad when I got an ad when I got an ad when I was in San Francisco. was in San Francisco. was in San Francisco. Instant conversion. Did you Instant conversion. Did you Instant conversion. Did you just stop just stop just stop in the middle of the street, sit down, and in the middle of the street, sit down, and in the middle of the street, sit down, and download this? Well, download this? Well, download this? Well, they have an Instagram with a million they have an Instagram with a million they have an Instagram with a million followers, they followers, they followers, they tell you what tell you what tell you what you can do to you can do to you can do to improve improve improve your appearance, a nice your appearance, a nice your appearance, a nice profile, and many of profile, and many of profile, and many of my attractive my attractive my attractive friends are also friends are also friends are also following them. So I following them. So I following them. So I thought why not give it a thought why not give it a thought why not give it a try, but I don't try, but I don't try, but I don't know if you've heard of it. Okay know if you've heard of it. Okay , your , your attractive friends. attractive friends. attractive friends. OK. I think we OK. I think we OK. I think we should let should let should let commentators commentators commentators predict your predict your predict your results before results before results before they come in. Here are they come in. Here are they come in. Here are some of the indicators. some of the indicators. some of the indicators. Cheek activation. From 0 Cheek activation. From 0 Cheek activation. From 0 to 100. Femininity of to 100. Femininity of to 100. Femininity of the face. This will be the face. This will be the face. This will be difficult. difficult. difficult. Yes. Yes. Yes. Homogeneity. Homogeneity. Homogeneity. Averageness. Averageness. Averageness. Is this good or bad? That's Is this good or bad? That's Is this good or bad? That's good, right? good, right? good, right? they cut themselves. they cut themselves. Wait, do I want to be Wait, do I want to be more homogeneous? more homogeneous? more homogeneous? I think you want to be I think you want to be I think you want to be more homogeneous. more homogeneous. more homogeneous. Okay. Well. Okay. Well. Okay. Well. Dude, in second Dude, in second Dude, in second grade, a girl grade, a girl grade, a girl I liked I liked I liked called me a called me a called me a monster. I monster. I monster. I liked this liked this liked this girl, she was sitting girl, she was sitting girl, she was sitting in front, and my friend, in front, and my friend, in front, and my friend, who seemed to who seemed to who seemed to know exactly what she was doing. He know exactly what she was doing. He know exactly what she was doing. He was adding fuel to the was adding fuel to the was adding fuel to the fire. He's like, " fire. He's like, " Dude, let me Dude, let me Dude, let me tell her that you tell her that you tell her that you like her, and like her, and like her, and maybe she..."—and maybe she..."—and maybe she..."—and he walks up to her. he walks up to her. he walks up to her. He tells her that she He tells her that she He tells her that she likes you, I see likes you, I see likes you, I see them both them both them both smile, he smile, he smile, he turns to me turns to me turns to me and I'm like, "And?" "And he and I'm like, "And?" "And he and I'm like, "And?" "And he says, "She says, "She says, "She thinks you're a monster thinks you're a monster thinks you're a monster ."" And I'm like, "Oh." "It ."" And I'm like, "Oh." "It ."" And I'm like, "Oh." "It wasn't even a 'yes' wasn't even a 'yes' or 'no'. She just or 'no'. She just or 'no'. She just thinks you're a monster. That's the thinks you're a monster. That's the end of it. I said, 'So what, no?'" ""And he's 'So what, no?'" ""And he's 'So what, no?'" ""And he's like, "I think not." like, "I think not." like, "I think not." What's her name, Gloria? What's her name, Gloria? What's her name, Gloria? since that time. I think that since that time. I think that since that time. I think that was my very first was my very first was my very first memory. Her name was memory. Her name was memory. Her name was Millie. Millie. Millie. Millie. You, scum. Millie. You, scum. Millie. You, scum. But who, who But who, who But who, who remembers this? Good. I'd remembers this? Good. I'd remembers this? Good. I'd like to talk to like to talk to like to talk to you about the wild world of you about the wild world of you about the wild world of laboratory laboratory laboratory testing on testing on testing on monkeys. monkeys. monkeys. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. You know, I somehow didn't You know, I somehow didn't You know, I somehow didn't realize it, I never really realize it, I never really thought about it. Well, you know, thought about it. Well, you know, when you hear about a drug, "Oh, when you hear about a drug, "Oh, when you hear about a drug, "Oh, this is phase one this is phase one this is phase one clinical clinical clinical trials, trials, trials, phase two." What does this even phase two." What does this even phase two." What does this even mean? And what mean? And what mean? And what actually actually actually happens on the happens on the happens on the way to bringing a way to bringing a way to bringing a drug, drug, drug, treatment, or vaccine, treatment, or vaccine, treatment, or vaccine, whatever, to the market? I had whatever, to the market? I had whatever, to the market? I had no idea no idea no idea how many drugs how many drugs how many drugs are tested on monkeys and are tested on monkeys and are tested on monkeys and how big a how big a how big a business it is, and business it is, and business it is, and how strange an how strange an how strange an ethical issue it is. So ethical issue it is. So ethical issue it is. So can I tell you can I tell you can I tell you a little about it? a little about it? a little about it? Yes, and what is the scale? I Yes, and what is the scale? I ...I have no idea. ...I have no idea. So, in total, over 20% of all drugs are tested all drugs are tested all drugs are tested on monkeys. on monkeys. on monkeys. And what kind of monkeys are these? Is this the And what kind of monkeys are these? Is this the And what kind of monkeys are these? Is this the same species? same species? same species? Are they all... Are they all... Are they all... There are several types that There are several types that There are several types that are used are used are used specifically for this. specifically for this. specifically for this. For example, For example, For example, long-tailed, I don't know long-tailed, I don't know long-tailed, I don't know how to pronounce it correctly how to pronounce it correctly how to pronounce it correctly , they are , they are , they are called "tsino". Well, called "tsino". Well, called "tsino". Well, this "cyno" or whatever it is, this "cyno" or whatever it is, this "cyno" or whatever it is, is the perfect is the perfect is the perfect species of monkey for species of monkey for species of monkey for testing. And it's kind of testing. And it's kind of testing. And it's kind of sad, because they're sad, because they're sad, because they're perfect, because they're perfect, because they're perfect, because they're smarter and closer to smarter and closer to smarter and closer to people. If people. If people. If you look at these you look at these you look at these monkeys in the wild, monkeys in the wild, monkeys in the wild, they are known for they are known for they are known for grabbing your grabbing your grabbing your phone and taking a phone and taking a phone and taking a selfie with you. They selfie with you. They selfie with you. They can can can grab your hat, you know, and grab your hat, you know, and grab your hat, you know, and won't give it back until you won't give it back until you won't give it back until you give them food. They, give them food. They, give them food. They, like, know the rules of the like, know the rules of the like, know the rules of the game. And here's this game. And here's this game. And here's this crazy business: crazy business: crazy business: look, I understand, look, I understand, look, I understand, you don't want the you don't want the you don't want the medicine to be medicine to be medicine to be tested on people right away. tested on people right away. tested on people right away. You want to start with You want to start with You want to start with mice or rats, but mice or rats, but mice or rats, but ultimately the closest ultimately the closest ultimately the closest test subject is a test subject is a test subject is a monkey. Therefore, monkey. Therefore, monkey. Therefore, tens of thousands of monkeys tens of thousands of monkeys are imported around the world every year. The US, are imported around the world every year. The US, for example, for example, for example, imports 20,000 imports 20,000 imports 20,000 monkeys. And each monkey monkeys. And each monkey monkeys. And each monkey costs...guess costs...guess costs...guess how much a monkey costs? how much a monkey costs? how much a monkey costs? A thousand? A thousand? A thousand? Almost 20 thousand. Almost 20 thousand. Almost 20 thousand. One monkey costs 20 One monkey costs 20 One monkey costs 20 thousand? thousand? thousand? Previously, they Previously, they Previously, they cost two cost two cost two thousand each. When thousand each. When thousand each. When COVID started, prices skyrocketed because COVID started, prices skyrocketed because COVID started, prices skyrocketed because tests were needed tests were needed tests were needed for drugs, vaccines, for drugs, vaccines, for drugs, vaccines, etc. So the price etc. So the price etc. So the price jumped to jumped to jumped to 20,500 per monkey. And 20,500 per monkey. And 20,500 per monkey. And then it so happened that then it so happened that then it so happened that at that time China at that time China at that time China was supplying about was supplying about was supplying about 60% of the world's supply of what 60% of the world's supply of what 60% of the world's supply of what they they they call NHP, or call NHP, or call NHP, or non-human primates. non-human primates. non-human primates. They do everything. They do everything. They do everything. China does everything. China does everything. China does everything. They breed them, They breed them, They breed them, they supply them. they supply them. they supply them. China just abruptly China just abruptly China just abruptly stopped everything. They stopped everything. They stopped everything. They simply "closed the simply "closed the simply "closed the monkey shop." monkey shop." monkey shop." They simply They simply They simply stopped exporting. stopped exporting. stopped exporting. They said, " They said, " Look, we'll keep Look, we'll keep Look, we'll keep them all to ourselves." them all to ourselves." them all to ourselves." Of course. Of course. Of course. And so this And so this And so this huge huge huge supply shock happened. Prices supply shock happened. Prices supply shock happened. Prices have skyrocketed to 50,000 per have skyrocketed to 50,000 per have skyrocketed to 50,000 per monkey. And Cambodia monkey. And Cambodia monkey. And Cambodia intervenes, and intervenes, and intervenes, and Vietnam intervenes, Vietnam intervenes, Vietnam intervenes, and Mauritius, or whatever and Mauritius, or whatever and Mauritius, or whatever island it is, island it is, island it is, intervenes and intervenes and intervenes and starts supplying starts supplying starts supplying these monkeys. So the US kind of these monkeys. So the US kind of these monkeys. So the US kind of needs them, needs them, needs them, and the US has these big and the US has these big and the US has these big companies. So, there's this companies. So, there's this companies. So, there's this company called company called company called Charles River Labs. Have you ever Charles River Labs. Have you ever heard of this heard of this heard of this business? business? business? Charles River Labs. This sounds Charles River Labs. This sounds Charles River Labs. This sounds like a venture capital firm. like a venture capital firm. like a venture capital firm. Well, there's Charles River Ventures. So Well, there's Charles River Ventures. So Well, there's Charles River Ventures. So they should not be confused. they should not be confused. they should not be confused. So, Charles River Labs So, Charles River Labs So, Charles River Labs is in is in is in Boston or somewhere there. Boston or somewhere there. Boston or somewhere there. They provide They provide They provide research research research testing as a testing as a testing as a service to all service to all service to all biotech biotech biotech companies so that they don't have to companies so that they don't have to companies so that they don't have to do it themselves. do it themselves. do it themselves. Of course. Of course. Of course. They have mice, rats, They have mice, rats, They have mice, rats, dogs, and monkeys, and dogs, and monkeys, and dogs, and monkeys, and they do this they do this they do this testing. They testing. They testing. They work with approximately work with approximately work with approximately 80% of biotechnology 80% of biotechnology 80% of biotechnology companies. This is companies. This is companies. This is madness, the scale is madness, the scale is madness, the scale is simply amazing. What's even simply amazing. What's even simply amazing. What's even crazier is that it crazier is that it crazier is that it seems like about 80% of seems like about 80% of drugs that come drugs that come drugs that come to market are to market are to market are tested there. tested there. tested there. They simply have an absolute They simply have an absolute They simply have an absolute monopoly. They have monopoly. They have monopoly. They have $4 billion in $4 billion in $4 billion in revenue per year. revenue per year. revenue per year. Yes, it is a public Yes, it is a public Yes, it is a public company. company. company. They bought the They bought the They bought the monkey breeding business, monkey breeding business, monkey breeding business, part of the part of the part of the supply chain, because they were supply chain, because they were supply chain, because they were very dependent on these very dependent on these very dependent on these wild price swings. wild price swings. wild price swings. They bought it for They bought it for They bought it for $500 million, $500 million, $500 million, simply to better simply to better simply to better control control control supplies and supplies and supplies and ensure they would ensure they would ensure they would n't have a shortage of these n't have a shortage of these n't have a shortage of these primates. primates. Monkey breeding business? Monkey breeding business? Hey, I want Hey, I want Hey, I want to tell you about to tell you about to tell you about something pretty cool. something pretty cool. something pretty cool. We have a database of all the We have a database of all the We have a database of all the business ideas business ideas business ideas discussed in discussed in discussed in this podcast. So, this podcast. So, this podcast. So, hundreds of episodes, the hundreds of episodes, the hundreds of episodes, the HubSpot team has HubSpot team has HubSpot team has gone through them, gone through them, gone through them, selected all the simple, selected all the simple, selected all the simple, clear, interesting, clear, interesting, clear, interesting, profitable ideas that profitable ideas that profitable ideas that we discussed, and we discussed, and we discussed, and they're all available for they're all available for they're all available for free free free download. Just download. Just download. Just click the link click the link click the link in the description below. in the description below. in the description below. Thank you to our friends Thank you to our friends Thank you to our friends at HubSpot for at HubSpot for at HubSpot for sponsoring this sponsoring this sponsoring this podcast and podcast and podcast and creating this creating this creating this free free free resource for you. resource for you. resource for you. Back to the show. Back to the show. Back to the show. So it would be, So it would be, So it would be, for example, in Cambodia for example, in Cambodia for example, in Cambodia or Vietnam, and they or Vietnam, and they or Vietnam, and they essentially certify that essentially certify that they are breeding them they are breeding them they are breeding them specifically for testing. specifically for testing. specifically for testing. They are not taken from the They are not taken from the They are not taken from the wild. And wild. And wild. And then they somehow then they somehow then they somehow tag them, track them tag them, track them tag them, track them or something. But everything or something. But everything or something. But everything went wrong. So, there's went wrong. So, there's went wrong. So, there's this story in this story in this story in Fortune magazine about this guy. Fortune magazine about this guy. Fortune magazine about this guy. See this guy in the See this guy in the See this guy in the blue shirt with blue shirt with blue shirt with glasses? He's the glasses? He's the glasses? He's the director of director of director of wildlife in wildlife in wildlife in Cambodia, and these are Cambodia, and these are Cambodia, and these are caged monkeys coming out caged monkeys coming out caged monkeys coming out of this pickup truck, and they're being of this pickup truck, and they're being of this pickup truck, and they're being transported. And so transported. And so transported. And so this guy goes to the this guy goes to the this guy goes to the US on, you know, a US on, you know, a US on, you know, a business trip and he business trip and he business trip and he just gets detained. just gets detained. You know, they had a You know, they had a warrant for his arrest warrant for his arrest warrant for his arrest because they believed that because they believed that because they believed that monkeys from the wild were monkeys from the wild were monkeys from the wild were being passed off as being passed off as being passed off as lab animals, lab animals, lab animals, bred in captivity, and bred in captivity, and bred in captivity, and they were being renamed, they were being renamed, they were being renamed, rebranded, and rebranded, and rebranded, and sold. And he sold. And he sold. And he spent spent spent about a year in prison. He was about a year in prison. He was about a year in prison. He was under house arrest for under house arrest for under house arrest for about a year about a year about a year awaiting trial. awaiting trial. awaiting trial. In America? In America? In America? Yes, in America. And Yes, in America. And Yes, in America. And the Department of Justice the Department of Justice the Department of Justice supposedly supposedly supposedly confiscated it, which is confiscated it, which is confiscated it, which is pretty crazy. pretty crazy. pretty crazy. So, this is a wild world. Have So, this is a wild world. Have So, this is a wild world. Have you ever even you ever even you ever even thought about it thought about it ? And so... ? And so... ? And so... No, but "confiscated No, but "confiscated "—is that your new "—is that your new "—is that your new term? I do term? I do term? I do n't know. I said so. I n't know. I said so. I n't know. I said so. I don't know if I even don't know if I even don't know if I even said that. It was in said that. It was in said that. It was in Fortune magazine. Fortune magazine. Fortune magazine. They should have They should have They should have put him in a put him in a put him in a monkey cage. monkey cage. monkey cage. They told him. They told him. They told him. Yes, that's right. So, this is Yes, that's right. So, this is Yes, that's right. So, this is madness, this is another madness, this is another madness, this is another reminder. You know, reminder. You know, reminder. You know, one thing this one thing this one thing this podcast did for podcast did for podcast did for me was me was me was rewire my rewire my rewire my brain to understand that brain to understand that brain to understand that when I look when I look when I look around me, nothing here is by around me, nothing here is by accident. Nothing accident. Nothing just appeared. just appeared. just appeared. You know, like the You know, like the You know, like the lead that lead that lead that goes into goes into goes into mechanical pencils. There is a mechanical pencils. There is a mechanical pencils. There is a company that company that company that makes it. There's a guy makes it. There's a guy you'll meet you'll meet you'll meet on a boat somewhere whose on a boat somewhere whose on a boat somewhere whose business is just business is just business is just supplying this supplying this supplying this lead, and he knows lead, and he knows lead, and he knows everything about this business, he everything about this business, he everything about this business, he goes to meetings goes to meetings goes to meetings where they discuss where they discuss where they discuss 3mm and 6mm lead, and it's all 3mm and 6mm lead, and it's all 3mm and 6mm lead, and it's all business. This wouldn't business. This wouldn't business. This wouldn't exist if it exist if it exist if it weren't for the entrepreneur who weren't for the entrepreneur who weren't for the entrepreneur who made it a reality. made it a reality. made it a reality. And the world is full of And the world is full of And the world is full of such projects everywhere. such projects everywhere. such projects everywhere. more than you more than you more than you think. think. think. And it's always And it's always And it's always bigger than you bigger than you bigger than you think. It's always think. It's always think. It's always bigger than... bigger than... bigger than... Can you imagine Can you imagine Can you imagine someone making someone making someone making $500 million $500 million $500 million breeding monkeys? And breeding monkeys? And breeding monkeys? And when you look at the when you look at the when you look at the photo, it looked photo, it looked photo, it looked almost like a huge almost like a huge almost like a huge hangar. That photo hangar. That photo hangar. That photo he showed me. he showed me. he showed me. This is madness. And This is madness. And This is madness. And you know, I remember you know, I remember you know, I remember meeting people who meeting people who meeting people who were the richest people in were the richest people in were the richest people in my neighborhood when I was my neighborhood when I was my neighborhood when I was growing up. It's like, "What do you growing up. It's like, "What do you growing up. It's like, "What do you do?" What is your do?" What is your do?" What is your job? And he job? And he job? And he laughed. He says: “No, there is laughed. He says: “No, there is laughed. He says: “No, there is no work. He no work. He no work. He says, "I sell, you know says, "I sell, you know , to factories where there's a , to factories where there's a , to factories where there's a conveyor belt, conveyor belt, conveyor belt, or, you know, you go through or, you know, you go through or, you know, you go through security at the airport, security at the airport, security at the airport, there's a conveyor there's a conveyor there's a conveyor belt there too?" He says: " belt there too?" He says: " The canvas for this The canvas for this The canvas for this tape—we tape—we tape—we produce it." And I'm like, produce it." And I'm like, produce it." And I'm like, "What? As? What? How did "What? As? What? How did "What? As? What? How did you even start this? " you even start this? " you even start this? " Where does this even Where does this even Where does this even come from?" You know, I come from?" You know, I come from?" You know, I have an almond farm, a have an almond farm, a have an almond farm, a mushroom farm. I mushroom farm. I mushroom farm. I met a guy who met a guy who met a guy who makes a dye for the makes a dye for the makes a dye for the color blue, because color blue, because color blue, because blue is not exactly a blue is not exactly a blue is not exactly a natural substance natural substance natural substance that you can just that you can just that you can just find. It needs to be find. It needs to be find. It needs to be created, like. He created, like. He created, like. He says, "I'm doing blue." says, "I'm doing blue." says, "I'm doing blue." And I'm like, "Well, I love And I'm like, "Well, I love And I'm like, "Well, I love lamps, sir." "I don't lamps, sir." "I don't lamps, sir." "I don't understand what you're understand what you're understand what you're talking about." talking about." talking about." And they are richer than you might And they are richer than you might And they are richer than you might think. think. think. Another thing I Another thing I Another thing I noticed: there are companies noticed: there are companies noticed: there are companies doing things that doing things that doing things that I had no idea I had no idea I had no idea even existed, even existed, even existed, and that potentially and that potentially and that potentially make a lot of make a lot of make a lot of money. For money. For money. For example, this is my first time example, this is my first time example, this is my first time reading "The Snow Globe," reading "The Snow Globe," reading "The Snow Globe," a biography of Warren a biography of Warren a biography of Warren Buffett. And I see Buffett. And I see Buffett. And I see you mentioned it, but I didn't you mentioned it, but I didn't you mentioned it, but I didn't quite understand what it was about quite understand what it was about quite understand what it was about and I didn't and I didn't and I didn't want to ask so as want to ask so as want to ask so as not to look stupid. not to look stupid. But the point is, there's a shortage of But the point is, there's a shortage of soybean oil, and the bottom line is soybean oil, and the bottom line is soybean oil, and the bottom line is that one of that one of Warren Buffett's best deals was Warren Buffett's best deals was American Express, because there American Express, because there American Express, because there was a whole was a whole was a whole scheme at one time: a fraudster scheme at one time: a fraudster scheme at one time: a fraudster realized he could realized he could realized he could get loans get loans get loans against against against soybean oil stocks. And, soybean oil stocks. And, soybean oil stocks. And, essentially, what he did was this essentially, what he did was this essentially, what he did was this : he had, I don't know, hundreds : he had, I don't know, hundreds : he had, I don't know, hundreds or dozens of or dozens of or dozens of huge huge huge tanks where he tanks where he tanks where he stored that oil. And stored that oil. And stored that oil. And let's say all this let's say all this let's say all this oil was worth oil was worth oil was worth $5 million, $5 million, $5 million, he could take out a loan he could take out a loan he could take out a loan for $4 million for $4 million for $4 million secured by this oil. secured by this oil. secured by this oil. He went to, I think, He went to, I think, He went to, I think, 50 different banks and 50 different banks and 50 different banks and got a bunch of different got a bunch of different got a bunch of different loans, which is loans, which is loans, which is fraud. But fraud. But fraud. But then he pulled a then he pulled a then he pulled a double fraud, double fraud, double fraud, because in order to get because in order to get because in order to get the credits, he hired the credits, he hired the credits, he hired American Express to American Express to American Express to confirm that the oil confirm that the oil confirm that the oil he declared he declared he declared was actually in was actually in was actually in the tanks. But he the tanks. But he the tanks. But he noticed that when they noticed that when they noticed that when they checked, there was a checked, there was a checked, there was a way to trick them, and way to trick them, and way to trick them, and he ended up filling he ended up filling he ended up filling these huge these huge these huge tanks with tanks with tanks with seawater, salt water. seawater, salt water. seawater, salt water. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it was a fake. And it was a fake. And it was a fake. Oil did not exist. Oil did not exist. Oil did not exist. Due to a number of Due to a number of Due to a number of political reasons, political reasons, political reasons, the deal with Russia, under the deal with Russia, under the deal with Russia, under which they were going to which they were going to which they were going to import or import or import or sell them a lot of oil, sell them a lot of oil, sell them a lot of oil, fell through. America fell through. America fell through. America said: "No, we said: "No, we said: "No, we will not do business with the will not do business with the will not do business with the USSR." So the price of USSR." So the price of USSR." So the price of soybean oil fell, soybean oil fell, soybean oil fell, the market crashed, and the market crashed, and the market crashed, and all these creditors all these creditors all these creditors said, "Hey, soybean said, "Hey, soybean said, "Hey, soybean guy, you owe us guy, you owe us guy, you owe us money." And he's like, " money." And he's like, " Well, the thing is, there's Well, the thing is, there's no such thing as soybean oil." " That's why I can't That's why I can't That's why I can't pay you." And pay you." And pay you." And because American Express because American Express because American Express was the guarantor—it was the was the guarantor—it was the was the guarantor—it was the company that promised company that promised company that promised the lenders that the the lenders that the the lenders that the soybean oil was soybean oil was soybean oil was available—it was they who available—it was they who available—it was they who had to pay had to pay had to pay this huge penalty. this huge penalty. this huge penalty. And Warren Buffett And Warren Buffett And Warren Buffett walks in and says, "You walks in and says, "You walks in and says, "You know, American know, American know, American Express stock is down right now." And Express stock is down right now." And Express stock is down right now." And many people didn't even many people didn't even many people didn't even realize that realize that realize that they were even they were even they were even checking checking checking soybean oil stocks. soybean oil stocks. soybean oil stocks. But I have a But I have a But I have a feeling, judging from my feeling, judging from my feeling, judging from my visits to visits to visits to restaurants and restaurants and restaurants and conversations with conversations with conversations with waiters, that people waiters, that people who use who use who use American Express don't really give a damn about it American Express don't really give a damn about it American Express don't really give a damn about it . . . They still believe that They still believe that They still believe that American Express is reliable, well, American Express is reliable, well, American Express is reliable, well, you know, for you know, for you know, for credit cards. And I credit cards. And I credit cards. And I read about it and thought, " read about it and thought, " Oh, that's a crazy Oh, that's a crazy Oh, that's a crazy story." "And secondly, story." "And secondly, story." "And secondly, American Express is doing American Express is doing American Express is doing soybean soybean soybean oil testing." You have no oil testing." You have no oil testing." You have no idea how many idea how many idea how many strange and strange and strange and diverse diverse diverse businesses there are. And, by the way, businesses there are. And, by the way, businesses there are. And, by the way, it was a business with a it was a business with a it was a business with a turnover of hundreds of turnover of hundreds of turnover of hundreds of millions of dollars a millions of dollars a millions of dollars a year—to year—to year—to check this check this check this soybean oil. And it was soybean oil. And it was soybean oil. And it was one of those moments one of those moments one of those moments when I thought: I can't when I thought: I can't when I thought: I can't believe this is believe this is believe this is even possible. I even possible. I even possible. I never... And I think never... And I think never... And I think that crisis was that crisis was that crisis was so big that, so big that, although it didn't although it didn't although it didn't collapse the economy, collapse the economy, collapse the economy, it did, I think, it did, I think, it did, I think, damage to many damage to many damage to many companies to the tune of companies to the tune of companies to the tune of tens or hundreds of tens or hundreds of tens or hundreds of billions of dollars. billions of dollars. billions of dollars. Yes, it's all hidden Yes, it's all hidden Yes, it's all hidden in plain sight. And the in plain sight. And the in plain sight. And the more stories like these more stories like these more stories like these you absorb, you absorb, you absorb, the more likely the more likely the more likely two things will happen. First, two things will happen. First, two things will happen. First, your brain your brain your brain is rewired, and is rewired, and is rewired, and you begin to understand you begin to understand you begin to understand that the world is simply that the world is simply that the world is simply full of gaps full of gaps full of gaps that that that business founders fill. business founders fill. business founders fill. And you start And you start And you start to realize: oh, that to realize: oh, that to realize: oh, that was a gap, and was a gap, and was a gap, and someone filled it. It someone filled it. It someone filled it. It was a gap, and was a gap, and was a gap, and someone filled it. someone filled it. someone filled it. So you start So you start So you start to find gaps to find gaps to find gaps and think: Could I and think: Could I and think: Could I fill this one? And it fill this one? And it fill this one? And it changes you. This is changes you. This is changes you. This is what the entrepreneurial what the entrepreneurial what the entrepreneurial brain really comes down to brain really comes down to brain really comes down to : seeing : seeing : seeing the world not as a set of the world not as a set of the world not as a set of fixed, fixed, fixed, decided things that decided things that decided things that parents will take care of, parents will take care of, parents will take care of, but as a place full of but as a place full of but as a place full of opportunities that opportunities that opportunities that can simply be taken and can simply be taken and can simply be taken and changed. You can changed. You can changed. You can literally bend literally bend literally bend the world under you and the world under you and the world under you and create it anew. create it anew. create it anew. And on the other hand, you And on the other hand, you And on the other hand, you understand that there is a lot of business hidden in understand that there is a lot of business hidden in understand that there is a lot of business hidden in strange corners of the strange corners of the strange corners of the world world world . You can . You can . You can make a lot of money doing things that are make a lot of money doing things that are off the beaten off the beaten path, because there is an path, because there is an path, because there is an arbitrage between what arbitrage between what arbitrage between what smart people smart people smart people learn in learn in learn in everyday life everyday life everyday life or in education. That's why you or in education. That's why you or in education. That's why you see so many see so many see so many programmers programmers programmers building to-do building to-do building to-do list apps or list apps or dating apps—they're dating apps—they're looking for problems that looking for problems that every intelligent person faces. every intelligent person faces. You should just You should just You should just stay away from it stay away from it stay away from it and do and do and do something they have something they have something they have n't even heard of. They n't even heard of. They n't even heard of. They don't know too much don't know too much don't know too much about it, about it, about it, you know? Choose a you know? Choose a you know? Choose a niche that is not niche that is not niche that is not crowded with very crowded with very crowded with very smart and smart and smart and ambitious people, and ambitious people, and ambitious people, and you will be playing against you will be playing against you will be playing against weak competitors. weak competitors. How do you think this can be How do you think this can be done? Because it's done? Because it's done? Because it's really hard. really hard. It's hard to find It's hard to find problems worth problems worth problems worth solving that are 100% solving that are 100% outside outside outside your scope of your scope of your scope of work. work. For example, we For example, we met a guy in San met a guy in San Francisco who had a Francisco who had a Francisco who had a business related to business related to business related to dentists. It dentists. It dentists. It helped, it was... helped, it was... helped, it was... Back offices of Back offices of Back offices of dental dental dental clinics. So, it clinics. So, it clinics. So, it was called Daydream Dental. was called Daydream Dental. was called Daydream Dental. Here's what they did: you're a Here's what they did: you're a Here's what they did: you're a dentist, you have a dentist, you have a dentist, you have a back office, and there sits back office, and there sits back office, and there sits Debbie, who spends Debbie, who spends Debbie, who spends most of her day most of her day most of her day calling insurance calling insurance calling insurance companies, companies, companies, reading reading reading billing codes, trying to billing codes, trying to billing codes, trying to submit and reconcile submit and reconcile submit and reconcile bills, checking bills, checking bills, checking patients' insurance. patients' insurance. patients' insurance. And this whole process is And this whole process is And this whole process is actually a source of actually a source of actually a source of income for the business, and income for the business, and income for the business, and you know what? It often you know what? It often you know what? It often happens that happens that happens that invoices are rejected, invoices are rejected, invoices are rejected, issued issued issued incorrectly, money does not incorrectly, money does not incorrectly, money does not arrive, etc. So this is a arrive, etc. So this is a arrive, etc. So this is a very unprofitable very unprofitable very unprofitable part of the business. You would part of the business. You would part of the business. You would think that you think that you think that you come to come to come to the dentist, pay the the dentist, pay the the dentist, pay the money, and that's it. money, and that's it. money, and that's it. The matter is done. But The matter is done. But The matter is done. But in reality, the in reality, the in reality, the dental dental dental industry works industry works industry works differently. So he differently. So he differently. So he comes to comes to comes to the dentist and says, " the dentist and says, " Hey, let us Hey, let us Hey, let us take over this function take over this function take over this function ." "We'll ." "We'll ." "We'll use AI, use AI, use AI, smart people, and smart people, and smart people, and computers to computers to computers to do it better than do it better than do it better than Debbie, so you don't Debbie, so you don't Debbie, so you don't have to hire have to hire have to hire a bunch of staff and a bunch of staff and a bunch of staff and incur huge incur huge incur huge overhead costs." "We overhead costs." "We overhead costs." "We will hire these will hire these will hire these people ourselves." We people ourselves." We people ourselves." We specialize in specialize in specialize in this feature for you and this feature for you and this feature for you and will help you get will help you get will help you get 15–20% more 15–20% more 15–20% more profit than you are profit than you are profit than you are simply losing. " simply losing. " Here is the proposal." Here is the proposal." Here is the proposal." And he, it seems, was already in his And he, it seems, was already in his And he, it seems, was already in his second year second year second year receiving about receiving about receiving about $10 million in $10 million in $10 million in income per year, something like income per year, something like income per year, something like that. You can that. You can that. You can listen to the episode to listen to the episode to listen to the episode to find out all the details. find out all the details. find out all the details. But we asked, "How did But we asked, "How did But we asked, "How did you come up with this idea?" you come up with this idea?" Because he's either a Because he's either a Because he's either a Stanford graduate or a Stanford dropout Stanford graduate or a Stanford dropout Stanford graduate or a Stanford dropout . He's one of those . He's one of those . He's one of those guys you guys you guys you think of: think of: think of: my cousin. my cousin. my cousin. Yes, he didn't hang Yes, he didn't hang Yes, he didn't hang around dentist around dentist around dentist offices. Well, he offices. Well, he offices. Well, he had great teeth, but had great teeth, but had great teeth, but he didn't look like the kind of he didn't look like the kind of he didn't look like the kind of person who would do person who would do person who would do such dirty such dirty such dirty work. And he work. And he work. And he replied, "Oh, my mom replied, "Oh, my mom replied, "Oh, my mom was a dentist." was a dentist." was a dentist." Yes, he said, "As a Yes, he said, "As a Yes, he said, "As a teenager, I teenager, I teenager, I worked at a worked at a worked at a dental dental dental clinic every summer." clinic every summer." clinic every summer." And I said, " And I said, " The best gift The best gift — even though your mom will — even though your mom will — even though your mom will brag about it — brag about it — financially, is that financially, is that financially, is that your mom was a your mom was a your mom was a small small small business owner, and you were able business owner, and you were able business owner, and you were able to see these problems to see these problems to see these problems from the inside." And how from the inside." And how from the inside." And how lucky you were to be lucky you were to be lucky you were to be born in such born in such born in such conditions where you simply conditions where you simply conditions where you simply opened your eyes to opened your eyes to opened your eyes to reality. We had reality. We had reality. We had another guy who was in charge another guy who was in charge of maintaining the of maintaining the generators. That is, generators. That is, generators. That is, for example, a for example, a for example, a nursing home with an nursing home with an nursing home with an industrial industrial industrial generator cannot generator cannot generator cannot afford a afford a afford a power outage even power outage even power outage even for an hour, because it is a for an hour, because it is a for an hour, because it is a huge problem. huge problem. huge problem. Or a hospital—you can't Or a hospital—you can't Or a hospital—you can't let the let the lights go out in the hospital in the middle of a lights go out in the hospital in the middle of a heart operation. heart operation. heart operation. His job was His job was His job was installing and installing and installing and maintaining maintaining maintaining generators, and this generators, and this generators, and this business could eventually business could eventually business could eventually become a $100 become a $100 become a $100 million or even a million or even a million or even a billion dollar company. He billion dollar company. He billion dollar company. He told me how he came told me how he came told me how he came to this: it was a to this: it was a to this: it was a winding path, he winding path, he winding path, he said, he worked at a said, he worked at a said, he worked at a company where we were company where we were company where we were doing a doing a doing a consulting consulting consulting project, I got involved, and project, I got involved, and project, I got involved, and then I met then I met then I met another guy in this another guy in this another guy in this field. And I asked field. And I asked field. And I asked myself why I envy myself why I envy myself why I envy people who do people who do people who do such "dirty" such "dirty" such "dirty" technological technological technological work and find work and find work and find problems problems problems that I did that I did that I did n't even n't even n't even know existed. know existed. know existed. It is the art of It is the art of It is the art of noticing details. I noticing details. I noticing details. I told him that I told him that I told him that I had spent several had spent several had spent several months studying months studying months studying how the how the how the most creative people most creative people most creative people in the world worked. How do the in the world worked. How do the in the world worked. How do the best writers work best writers work ? The best musicians? ? The best musicians? ? The best musicians? The best directors? Because The best directors? Because , you know, I've spent , you know, I've spent , you know, I've spent most of my life most of my life most of my life studying the work of studying the work of studying the work of outstanding entrepreneurs outstanding entrepreneurs , and it's a lot of brute , and it's a lot of brute , and it's a lot of brute force, high force, high force, high initiative, initiative, initiative, big-picture thinking, and big-picture thinking, and big-picture thinking, and constant hustle. And, constant hustle. And, constant hustle. And, you know, of course, you can't do you know, of course, you can't do you know, of course, you can't do without without without creativity here, but I creativity here, but I creativity here, but I thought: "Well, I'll go and thought: "Well, I'll go and thought: "Well, I'll go and learn from those who learn from those who learn from those who specialize specialize specialize in this." If in this." If in this." If you listen to what you listen to what you listen to what Rick Rubin or the great Rick Rubin or the great Rick Rubin or the great comedians say, it all comedians say, it all comedians say, it all comes down to comes down to comes down to observation. observation. observation. Actually, that's why Actually, that's why Actually, that's why comedians, having become comedians, having become comedians, having become rich and rich and rich and famous, famous, famous, lose their talent. lose their talent. Because it was the struggle of the Because it was the struggle of the ordinary person that ordinary person that ordinary person that gave them the ideas that, when gave them the ideas that, when voiced from the stage, voiced from the stage, voiced from the stage, resonated with resonated with resonated with everyone in the audience. But everyone in the audience. But everyone in the audience. But when you fly when you fly when you fly private jets, private jets, private jets, have four have four have four nannies, a chef, and everything nannies, a chef, and everything nannies, a chef, and everything else, you no longer else, you no longer else, you no longer face the same face the same face the same problems as the problems as the problems as the average person. So average person. So average person. So you stop you stop you stop delivering brilliant delivering brilliant delivering brilliant insights that insights that insights that resonate with your resonate with your resonate with your audience like truth audience like truth audience like truth spoken out loud. spoken out loud. Therefore, it is worth creating a Therefore, it is worth creating a system where you will system where you will system where you will encounter interesting encounter interesting encounter interesting things, and develop things, and develop things, and develop the habit of noticing them, the habit of noticing them, the habit of noticing them, paying attention to them paying attention to them , writing them down, , writing them down, , writing them down, slowing down, slowing down, slowing down, being less busy and being less busy and being less busy and distracted, being distracted, being distracted, being more present. And this is where more present. And this is where greatness lies. Remember, greatness lies. Remember, Mark Manson was on the Mark Manson was on the Mark Manson was on the podcast, he has an podcast, he has an podcast, he has an incredibly popular incredibly popular incredibly popular book, right? You book, right? You book, right? You created one of the created one of the created one of the best-selling best-selling best-selling nonfiction books in nonfiction books in nonfiction books in history—The Subtle history—The Subtle history—The Subtle Art of Scoring Art of Scoring Art of Scoring at Everything. He wrote at Everything. He wrote at Everything. He wrote it, even though he had been it, even though he had been it, even though he had been blogging before, had written thousands of blogging before, had written thousands of blogging before, had written thousands of posts, but nothing posts, but nothing posts, but nothing really really really resonated. Nothing else has been as resonated. Nothing else has been as resonated. Nothing else has been as successful successful as this idea. And, um, as this idea. And, um, as this idea. And, um, where did that where did that where did that name come from? He said, "Oh, name come from? He said, "Oh, name come from? He said, "Oh, I actually really I actually really I actually really liked that band." And the liked that band." And the liked that band." And the band had a song band had a song band had a song called "The Subtle called "The Subtle called "The Subtle Art of Something Over There Art of Something Over There ." This was something different, ." This was something different, ." This was something different, the last part was the last part was the last part was different. He said, "And I different. He said, "And I different. He said, "And I just noticed that just noticed that just noticed that I really I really I really liked that title. liked that title. liked that title. I remember I couldn't I remember I couldn't I remember I couldn't name the other 15 songs name the other 15 songs name the other 15 songs on the album, but I remembered that one on the album, but I remembered that one on the album, but I remembered that one ." So I ." So I ." So I wrote it down, and that became the wrote it down, and that became the wrote it down, and that became the title of the book. And that title of the book. And that title of the book. And that means that means that means that observation is a observation is a observation is a real superpower. real superpower. real superpower. This is a superpower for This is a superpower for This is a superpower for entrepreneurs. Paul Graham entrepreneurs. Paul Graham entrepreneurs. Paul Graham wrote an essay wrote an essay wrote an essay called "How called "How called "How to Do Great to Do Great to Do Great Work." And what he Work." And what he Work." And what he describes is a kind of describes is a kind of describes is a kind of step-by-step system. And step-by-step system. And step-by-step system. And I just...it's I just...it's I just...it's about a 3,000-word essay. about a 3,000-word essay. about a 3,000-word essay. This is probably one of This is probably one of This is probably one of his most important his most important his most important essays, but it's so essays, but it's so essays, but it's so long. In it, he long. In it, he long. In it, he essentially says, "Look, essentially says, "Look, essentially says, "Look, here's the formula. You here's the formula. You here's the formula. You want to want to want to just follow the path of just follow the path of just follow the path of greatest greatest greatest passion first. The thing that passion first. The thing that interests you the most." And he's interests you the most." And he's basically saying, "Listen, basically saying, "Listen, basically saying, "Listen, there are two aspects to this. there are two aspects to this. there are two aspects to this. One, having a genuine One, having a genuine One, having a genuine interest in something is interest in something is interest in something is very motivating. So you're very motivating. So you're very motivating. So you're going to work harder going to work harder going to work harder than others. You're going to have than others. You're going to have than others. You're going to have more stamina more stamina more stamina than others." And he than others." And he than others." And he adds, "The second is adds, "The second is adds, "The second is differentiation, because what differentiation, because what differentiation, because what interests you is not what interests you is not what interests you is not what interests most interests most interests most people. And so you have a people. And so you have a people. And so you have a specific, so to specific, so to specific, so to speak, set of speak, set of speak, set of preferences." And if you preferences." And if you preferences." And if you really really really follow this, follow this, follow this, you will find yourself where there is you will find yourself where there is you will find yourself where there is less competition. less competition. less competition. So, he says, "Let So, he says, "Let So, he says, "Let your passion or your passion or your passion or interest be both interest be both interest be both the engine of the boat and its the engine of the boat and its the engine of the boat and its rudder. It's like the engine rudder. It's like the engine rudder. It's like the engine that motivates you and the that motivates you and the that motivates you and the rudder that directs rudder that directs rudder that directs where to sail." He says, where to sail." He says, "Okay, you take this "Okay, you take this "Okay, you take this boat, you let it go, boat, you let it go, boat, you let it go, and you just and you just and you just follow it to the follow it to the follow it to the very edge of the frontier of the very edge of the frontier of the very edge of the frontier of the industry that you're industry that you're industry that you're working in, the field working in, the field working in, the field or the technology that or the technology that or the technology that you're dealing with." you're dealing with." you're dealing with." Go to the very edge. Go to the very edge. Go to the very edge. If it's a lead for If it's a lead for If it's a lead for this pencil—let it this pencil—let it this pencil—let it be a lead. If it's a be a lead. If it's a be a lead. If it's a conveyor belt— conveyor belt— let it be a conveyor let it be a conveyor let it be a conveyor belt, whatever it is belt, whatever it is belt, whatever it is . "And he says: When . "And he says: When . "And he says: When you're on the border, and when you're on the border, and when you're on the border, and when you're far from it—the you're far from it—the border border border just looks like a circle, like a just looks like a circle, like a just looks like a circle, like a continuous line." continuous line." continuous line." But if you But if you But if you get all the way there, you'll get all the way there, you'll get all the way there, you'll notice: "Like this." notice: "Like this." notice: "Like this." You have to You have to You have to step over these step over these step over these gaps that exist gaps that exist gaps that exist ." People don't ." People don't ." People don't know that. They don't know that. They don't know that. They don't , they don't , they don't , they don't know how to do it. know how to do it. know how to do it. Oh, you have to do it Oh, you have to do it Oh, you have to do it manually. Nobody's going to manually. Nobody's going to manually. Nobody's going to do it for do it for do it for you. It's pretty you. It's pretty you. It's pretty exhausting. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's hard as hell. And it's only hard as hell. And it's only hard as hell. And it's only when you're there, on when you're there, on when you're there, on the edge, that you find the edge, that you find the edge, that you find these gaps. And then the these gaps. And then the these gaps. And then the entrepreneurial step entrepreneurial step is just deciding is just deciding is just deciding to fill one of them. to fill one of them. to fill one of them. And it starts with what And it starts with what And it starts with what you notice. you notice. you notice. That's a very good That's a very good That's a very good summary of that article. summary of that article. summary of that article. Paul Graham is another Paul Graham is another Paul Graham is another guy who... I don't guy who... I don't guy who... I don't know if... he can know if... he can know if... he can be an artist. I don't be an artist. I don't be an artist. I don't know what he know what he know what he thinks of himself as. I think he thinks of himself as. I think he thinks of himself as. I think he really does. really does. really does. I think he's... uh... I think he's... uh... I think he's... uh... about traditional about traditional about traditional art, and also art, and also art, and also when he writes, it's when he writes, it's when he writes, it's amazing how he amazing how he amazing how he takes something, well, it's like takes something, well, it's like takes something, well, it's like "How "How "How to Win Friends and to Win Friends and to Win Friends and Influence People," Influence People," Influence People," where they tell where they tell where they tell you certain things in the you certain things in the you certain things in the book and you're like, "That's book and you're like, "That's book and you're like, "That's obvious." But the way obvious." But the way obvious." But the way it's presented makes it's presented makes it's presented makes it much more it much more it much more important and important and important and insightful than I insightful than I insightful than I thought it would be before. And it's thought it would be before. And it's thought it would be before. And it's really important and really important and really important and insightful. insightful. insightful. Sure. Sure. Sure. So I was wondering how So I was wondering how So I was wondering how to stay, as to stay, as to stay, as Eddie Murphy calls it Eddie Murphy calls it , sensitive. I , sensitive. I , sensitive. I told you what told you what told you what Eddie Murphy said, Eddie Murphy said, Eddie Murphy said, right? He had that right? He had that right? He had that documentary documentary , and he said, "I'm a , and he said, "I'm a , and he said, "I'm a great comedian for a great comedian for a great comedian for a lot of reasons. One lot of reasons. One lot of reasons. One of them is I'm extremely of them is I'm extremely of them is I'm extremely sensitive to everything. sensitive to everything. sensitive to everything. If I'm giving my car to If I'm giving my car to If I'm giving my car to the valet and he the valet and he the valet and he comes back and it comes back and it smells just a little different, I can smells just a little different, I can make a joke about that make a joke about that make a joke about that subtle smell. subtle smell. subtle smell. Or if I notice a Or if I notice a Or if I notice a subtle dent subtle dent , I can notice it , I can notice it , I can notice it faster than other people because faster than other people because faster than other people because I notice it better than I notice it better than I notice it better than they do, and they're just they do, and they're just they do, and they're just not sensitive enough not sensitive enough ." ." ." Yeah, Jerry Yeah, Jerry Yeah, Jerry Seinfeld has a book Seinfeld has a book Seinfeld has a book called Is This Worth It called Is This Worth It ? Have you ever ? Have you ever ? Have you ever read it? read it? read it? No. No. No. It's... well, Jerry It's... well, Jerry It's... well, Jerry Seinfeld has a daily Seinfeld has a daily Seinfeld has a daily habit of writing. habit of writing. habit of writing. Every morning, the first two Every morning, the first two Every morning, the first two hours of the day, he sits down hours of the day, he sits down hours of the day, he sits down with a notebook and a pencil with a notebook and a pencil with a notebook and a pencil and a coffee, and he just writes and a coffee, and he just writes . He just writes . He just writes . He just writes jokes. And he says, jokes. And he says, jokes. And he says, you know, "Writing is a you know, "Writing is a you know, "Writing is a game." So he's game." So he's game." So he's been doing this for 40 been doing this for 40 been doing this for 40 years. So he years. So he years. So he collected all these yellow collected all these yellow collected all these yellow pages of pages of pages of half-finished half-finished half-finished jokes, and the book jokes, and the book jokes, and the book is called "Is This is called "Is This is called "Is This Worth Anything?" Because most Worth Anything?" Because most Worth Anything?" Because most jokes don't jokes don't jokes don't go anywhere. They... And he go anywhere. They... And he go anywhere. They... And he just asks himself, just asks himself, just asks himself, "Is there anything in there? Is there "Is there anything in there? Is there "Is there anything in there? Is there anything in there, is this anything in there, is this anything in there, is this worth anything?" And he worth anything?" And he worth anything?" And he collected them all in a book, collected them all in a book, collected them all in a book, and one of his jokes is and one of his jokes is and one of his jokes is about how he noticed about how he noticed : have you ever been on : have you ever been on : have you ever been on the phone and the the phone and the the phone and the line line line goes out, and the other goes out, and the other goes out, and the other person calls back and person calls back and person calls back and says, "Hi, yeah, says, "Hi, yeah, says, "Hi, yeah, sorry, I don't know what sorry, I don't know what sorry, I don't know what happened." He just happened." He just happened." He just noticed that we noticed that we noticed that we always say that, and always say that, and always say that, and he asks, "Why does everyone he asks, "Why does everyone he asks, "Why does everyone keep saying, 'I don't keep saying, 'I don't keep saying, 'I don't know what happened'?" know what happened'?" know what happened'?" Of course you don't know Of course you don't know Of course you don't know what happened. I what happened. I what happened. I don't even know what's don't even know what's don't even know what's going on with this going on with this going on with this call right now. Do you think I call right now. Do you think I call right now. Do you think I could explain what could explain what could explain what went wrong? I went wrong? I went wrong? I can't even tell you what's going on with it can't even tell you what's going on with it . I don't I know . I don't I know how phones work. how phones work. how phones work. He just noticed He just noticed He just noticed how ridiculous it is to say, " how ridiculous it is to say, " I don't know what happened," I don't know what happened," as if you have as if you have as if you have any power or control any power or control any power or control or understanding about how or understanding about how or understanding about how my phone my phone my phone magically connects magically connects magically connects to yours. And the reason to yours. And the reason to yours. And the reason I'm excited about that is I'm excited about that is because no one will ever practice it. No one will practice it. No one will ever say they ever say they ever say they do it. It do it. It do it. It doesn't sound cool. So doesn't sound cool. So doesn't sound cool. So there are a few traits there are a few traits there are a few traits that are incredibly that are incredibly that are incredibly important, but everyone important, but everyone important, but everyone else ignores them or else ignores them or else ignores them or doesn't even know what doesn't even know what doesn't even know what to do with them, so they to do with them, so they to do with them, so they just don't just don't just don't try. Imagine try. Imagine try. Imagine this: If you want this: If you want this: If you want to be the best to be the best to be the best Fortnite player in Fortnite player in Fortnite player in the world, you're competing the world, you're competing the world, you're competing against tens of against tens of against tens of millions of other millions of other millions of other kids who are doing kids who are doing kids who are doing it every day. You're entering an it every day. You're entering an it every day. You're entering an extremely extremely extremely competitive competitive competitive environment. But environment. But environment. But imagine that there's another imagine that there's another imagine that there's another game with the same game with the same game with the same prize pool as the prize pool as the Fortnite World Cup, Fortnite World Cup, but it only has seven but it only has seven but it only has seven players. That's what players. That's what players. That's what happens to happens to happens to some of these traits, some of these traits, like mindfulness. I said like mindfulness. I said like mindfulness. I said another one another one is enthusiasm. is enthusiasm. is enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is a very Enthusiasm is a very Enthusiasm is a very underrated trait. Everyone underrated trait. Everyone underrated trait. Everyone knows that it's better to knows that it's better to knows that it's better to work with someone who's work with someone who's enthusiastic. Everyone enthusiastic. Everyone knows that enthusiasm knows that enthusiasm is a positive trait, is a positive trait, is a positive trait, but smart people but smart people but smart people feel feel feel awkward when they awkward when they awkward when they show it. It's like a show it. It's like a show it. It's like a low-status thing low-status thing low-status thing for a smart person for a smart person to be to be to be enthusiastic. You enthusiastic. You enthusiastic. You come across as a bit of come across as a bit of come across as a bit of a dork, like a a dork, like a a dork, like a golden retriever. golden retriever. golden retriever. So what? Everyone wants to So what? Everyone wants to So what? Everyone wants to have that kind of person have that kind of person have that kind of person around them. We love around them. We love around them. We love golden golden golden retrievers. And retrievers. And retrievers. And it's actually a very it's actually a very it's actually a very useful trait for useful trait for useful trait for doing a difficult doing a difficult doing a difficult job—being job—being job—being enthusiastic every day, enthusiastic every day, enthusiastic every day, instead of instead of instead of being overwhelmed by the being overwhelmed by the being overwhelmed by the reality of your reality of your reality of your situation. So there are situation. So there are situation. So there are a handful of traits a handful of traits a handful of traits that smart people that smart people that smart people refuse refuse refuse to work on, which makes to work on, which makes to work on, which makes this field this field this field uncompetitive. You uncompetitive. You uncompetitive. You can just can just can just dominate it with dominate it with dominate it with minimal minimal minimal effort. effort. effort. It's something I It's something I It's something I think about all the time, and I've think about all the time, and I've think about all the time, and I've never found an never found an never found an answer that answer that answer that really works for me really works for me really works for me . But how do you . But how do you . But how do you find a job you find a job you find a job you love? You said it was the love? You said it was the love? You said it was the step that precedes step that precedes step that precedes everything else. But everything else. But everything else. But every time I read every time I read every time I read about Jerry Seinfeld about Jerry Seinfeld about Jerry Seinfeld and his habit of writing and his habit of writing and his habit of writing every day... I think, how did every day... I think, how did every day... I think, how did you get so lucky you get so lucky to find something so to find something so obsessive at such a young age? And I often obsessive at such a young age? And I often obsessive at such a young age? And I often ask myself, how do ask myself, how do ask myself, how do you find something to you find something to you find something to be obsessed with? And be obsessed with? And be obsessed with? And can anyone can anyone can anyone be obsessed with be obsessed with anything? I anything? I anything? I can be can be can be passionate about something for a while, but I'm not the kind of person passionate about something for a while, but I'm not the kind of person passionate about something for a while, but I'm not the kind of person who can who can who can stick to one stick to one stick to one thing for 20 years, dedicating thing for 20 years, dedicating thing for 20 years, dedicating 40 hours a 40 hours a 40 hours a week to it. You know, I can week to it. You know, I can be moderately be moderately interested in something for a long time, interested in something for a long time, interested in something for a long time, but not obsessed. I'm but not obsessed. I'm but not obsessed. I'm not obsessed. Do not obsessed. Do not obsessed. Do you really you really you really think that? Do you seriously think that? Do you seriously think that? Do you seriously think that you do think that you do think that you do n't have things to n't have things to n't have things to be obsessed with be obsessed with ? Dude, I think you're the ? Dude, I think you're the ? Dude, I think you're the complete complete complete opposite. opposite. opposite. No, I'm passionate about No, I'm passionate about No, I'm passionate about fitness. You were fitness. You were fitness. You were obsessed with denim. You obsessed with denim. You obsessed with denim. You were obsessed with were obsessed with were obsessed with the media business. You were the media business. You were the media business. You were obsessed with obsessed with business research. We're business research. We're almost out of almost out of almost out of a thousand episodes of a thousand episodes of a thousand episodes of this podcast. You can't spend this podcast. You can't spend a thousand hours talking a thousand hours talking about niche business about niche business ideas. Trust me, you're ideas. Trust me, you're ideas. Trust me, you're obsessed with them. obsessed with them. obsessed with them. It doesn't feel like an It doesn't feel like an It doesn't feel like an obsession. I obsession. I obsession. I don't even know. I just don't even know. I just don't even know. I just think when I think when I think when I look at other people, they look at other people, they look at other people, they have it and I don't. have it and I don't. have it and I don't. Of course, I can Of course, I can Of course, I can look at my look at my look at my past and past and past and argue with that, argue with that, argue with that, but I'm talking but I'm talking but I'm talking about about about the average the average the average person in general: Have person in general: Have person in general: Have you ever thought about you ever thought about you ever thought about finding something to be finding something to be finding something to be passionate about, or is it passionate about, or is it passionate about, or is it possible to become possible to become possible to become obsessed? obsessed? I think everyone is I think everyone is capable of it, but not many capable of it, but not many capable of it, but not many people do. I think people do. I think people do. I think there are two interesting things there are two interesting things there are two interesting things I can say about I can say about I can say about that. The first is, that. The first is, look at your look at your look at your childhood. childhood. childhood. Yeah, that's what Yeah, that's what Yeah, that's what Robert Greene says. Robert Greene says. Robert Greene says. Yeah, if you read Yeah, if you read Yeah, if you read people's advice on people's advice on people's advice on how to do that, they how to do that, they how to do that, they often say, often say, often say, look back at your look back at your look back at your childhood or childhood or childhood or look at look at look at what you did in your what you did in your what you did in your free time. While it free time. While it free time. While it may be an adult's free time may be an adult's free time may be an adult's free time , as you get , as you get , as you get older our free older our free older our free time is shrinking into time is shrinking into time is shrinking into smaller and smaller smaller and smaller smaller and smaller spaces. And you know, you spaces. And you know, you spaces. And you know, you fill your fill your fill your free time with things to do free time with things to do free time with things to do or things to "have" to or things to "have" to or things to "have" to do. But when you're do. But when you're do. But when you're a kid, you don't really a kid, you don't really a kid, you don't really think about what you think about what you think about what you have to do. You have to do. You have to do. You just think about just think about just think about what you want to do. So as a what you want to do. So as a what you want to do. So as a kid, you kid, you kid, you get into different get into different get into different things. You go down things. You go down things. You go down these rabbit holes, into these rabbit holes, into these rabbit holes, into different phases, and then you different phases, and then you different phases, and then you grow out of them. But grow out of them. But grow out of them. But they often have they often have they often have commonalities. So, you commonalities. So, you commonalities. So, you know, I was know, I was know, I was obsessed with this obsessed with this obsessed with this video game, and then I got video game, and then I got video game, and then I got cold feet about it, and cold feet about it, and cold feet about it, and then I got into then I got into then I got into online poker. And online poker. And online poker. And online poker has online poker has online poker has a lot in common with a lot in common with a lot in common with that video game, if you that video game, if you that video game, if you think about it, even though I think about it, even though I think about it, even though I didn't think of poker as a didn't think of poker as a didn't think of poker as a video game. I became video game. I became video game. I became obsessed with business, and obsessed with business, and obsessed with business, and now I'm kind of now I'm kind of now I'm kind of obsessed with obsessed with obsessed with investing. And investing. And investing. And they all have one thing in common they all have one thing in common they all have one thing in common , right? It's , right? It's , right? It's like a game where there are points, and it does like a game where there are points, and it does like a game where there are points, and it does n't matter what they're n't matter what they're n't matter what they're called—stars, called—stars, called—stars, points, money, or ROI, points, money, or ROI, points, money, or ROI, whatever, right? whatever, right? Like the internal rate Like the internal rate Like the internal rate of return (IRR)—it's a of return (IRR)—it's a of return (IRR)—it's a different different different scorecard, but the idea is the scorecard, but the idea is the scorecard, but the idea is the same. It's a same. It's a same. It's a competitive game, where there are competitive game, where there are competitive game, where there are opponents, there's a opponents, there's a opponents, there's a strategy, and it's strategy, and it's strategy, and it's hard to win, but it's fun, and you hard to win, but it's fun, and you hard to win, but it's fun, and you have to do have to do have to do trial and error to trial and error to trial and error to figure it out. So I figure it out. So I figure it out. So I like like like strategy games. And strategy games. And strategy games. And I've always I've always I've always liked liked liked strategy games. I've strategy games. I've strategy games. I've always... It's very always... It's very always... It's very easy for me to get easy for me to get easy for me to get obsessed with a obsessed with a obsessed with a strategy game. Do strategy game. Do strategy game. Do you like board you like board you like board games? games? games? Yeah, I love Yeah, I love Yeah, I love board games. I board games. I board games. I love, I love love, I love love, I love social social social strategy games. I strategy games. I strategy games. I love to watch Survivor love to watch Survivor . I . I . I love to play love to play love to play card games where you card games where you card games where you have to lie, where you have to have to lie, where you have to have to lie, where you have to , you know, bluff a little bit , you know, bluff a little bit , you know, bluff a little bit . It's poker, . It's poker, . It's poker, but there are other but there are other but there are other social card social card social card games like that. You know, you games like that. You know, you games like that. You know, you start to see start to see start to see patterns, and you patterns, and you patterns, and you have to think about it. have to think about it. have to think about it. So there's a great So there's a great So there's a great story about Dan story about Dan story about Dan Brown. You know Brown. You know Brown. You know Dan Brown, the author of The Dan Brown, the author of The Dan Brown, the author of The Da Vinci Code, who is Da Vinci Code, who is Da Vinci Code, who is one of the most one of the most one of the most best-selling best-selling best-selling detective thrillers detective thrillers detective thrillers in history, and " in history, and " in history, and " Angels and Demons." Angels and Demons." Angels and Demons." He has, he has a He has, he has a He has, he has a whole bunch of those books. whole bunch of those books. whole bunch of those books. He's a great author of He's a great author of He's a great author of these treasure hunt books these treasure hunt books these treasure hunt books , where the hero , where the hero , where the hero is trying to is trying to is trying to find something, and it's a race find something, and it's a race find something, and it's a race where he's collecting where he's collecting where he's collecting clues and solving clues and solving clues and solving puzzles. He's puzzles. He's puzzles. He's solving a mystery. solving a mystery. solving a mystery. So when he was So when he was So when he was a kid, his dad a kid, his dad a kid, his dad did something did something did something really cool for him that kind of really cool for him that kind of really cool for him that kind of ignited this passion in him ignited this passion in him ignited this passion in him . Every . Every . Every Christmas, instead of Christmas, instead of Christmas, instead of presents under presents under presents under the tree, his dad would the tree, his dad would the tree, his dad would put a treasure map. put a treasure map. put a treasure map. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. And he'd wake up, And he'd wake up, And he'd wake up, and while every kid is and while every kid is and while every kid is just unwrapping a just unwrapping a just unwrapping a present... His present... His present... His gift was, "Here's a gift was, "Here's a gift was, "Here's a map for you." Go map for you." Go map for you." Go find it." He was find it." He was find it." He was setting setting setting him up on a quest to him up on a quest to him up on a quest to find his find his find his presents. And presents. And presents. And guess what? That guess what? That guess what? That pivotal memory and pivotal memory and pivotal memory and moment really moment really moment really ignited his love ignited his love ignited his love for the idea of for the idea of for the idea of treasure hunting. And if treasure hunting. And if treasure hunting. And if you look at The Da you look at The Da you look at The Da Vinci Code, what is it? It's Vinci Code, what is it? It's Vinci Code, what is it? It's a story about a a story about a a story about a treasure hunt. And he treasure hunt. And he treasure hunt. And he tells it better tells it better tells it better than anyone else than anyone else than anyone else on Earth. And he on Earth. And he on Earth. And he paid attention to the paid attention to the paid attention to the things that things that things that interested him and that he interested him and that he interested him and that he loved as a child. We loved as a child. We loved as a child. We find things that find things that find things that interest us, but we interest us, but we interest us, but we just brush just brush just brush them off. We just them off. We just them off. We just ignore them as if ignore them as if ignore them as if they're trivial or they're trivial or they're trivial or meaningless. They're meaningless. They're meaningless. They're irrelevant, childish, irrelevant, childish, irrelevant, childish, silly, or frivolous. silly, or frivolous. silly, or frivolous. I should be doing I should be doing I should be doing something serious. But something serious. But something serious. But people who pay people who pay people who pay attention to things that attention to things that attention to things that seem seem seem frivolous take a frivolous take a frivolous take a simple idea, simple idea, simple idea, take it take it take it seriously, and seriously, and seriously, and turn it into something turn it into something turn it into something important. I'll give you a important. I'll give you a important. I'll give you a perfect example of perfect example of perfect example of that. I just that. I just that. I just took a trip to took a trip to took a trip to Toronto. I went to Toronto. I went to Toronto. I went to Toronto to Toronto to Toronto to celebrate because we celebrate because we celebrate because we just had a just had a just had a huge win, a huge win, a huge win, a big business success. big business success. big business success. I'll talk about it I'll talk about it I'll talk about it later, when I later, when I later, when I can talk about it can talk about it can talk about it publicly, but it was the publicly, but it was the publicly, but it was the biggest win in biggest win in biggest win in my business. So my business. So my business. So we flew as a we flew as a we flew as a team—me, the team—me, the team—me, the CEO, CEO, CEO, and Ben—we flew and Ben—we flew and Ben—we flew together. We thought, " together. We thought, " Let's celebrate." Let's celebrate." Let's celebrate." But the first thought was, But the first thought was, But the first thought was, "Maybe to Vegas?" And "Maybe to Vegas?" And "Maybe to Vegas?" And the thought of Vegas the thought of Vegas the thought of Vegas just makes me just makes me just makes me tired. You know, I don't tired. You know, I don't tired. You know, I don't want to drink. I don't want to want to drink. I don't want to want to drink. I don't want to party. If the party. If the party. If the three of us went to a club, three of us went to a club, three of us went to a club, we'd be like three we'd be like three we'd be like three idiots. You know, one idiots. You know, one idiots. You know, one of us doesn't even drink. of us doesn't even drink. of us doesn't even drink. So we went to So we went to So we went to Toronto. One of the Toronto. One of the Toronto. One of the reasons was we had a great reasons was we had a great reasons was we had a great day playing day playing day playing padel, which I'd never padel, which I'd never padel, which I'd never played before played before . I loved . I loved . I loved padel. I padel. I padel. I knew right away, oh, this is a new hobby knew right away, oh, this is a new hobby knew right away, oh, this is a new hobby for life. We went for life. We went for life. We went to an escape room, which is to an escape room, which is to an escape room, which is just incredible. It's just incredible. It's just incredible. It's like a real castle. like a real castle. like a real castle. There are actors in it. I've never There are actors in it. I've never There are actors in it. I've never been to an been to an been to an escape room like this before. The ones escape room like this before. The ones escape room like this before. The ones I've been to before I've been to before are little boxes with are little boxes with are little boxes with toys inside. toys inside. toys inside. I love those. Man, I I love those. Man, I I love those. Man, I love escape love escape rooms. It's pretty much rooms. It's pretty much rooms. It's pretty much the same thing. Strategy, the same thing. Strategy, the same thing. Strategy, mystery, mystery, mystery, solving solving solving puzzles—that's what puzzles—that's what puzzles—that's what I like. And that's how I like. And that's how I like. And that's how I decided I decided I decided to celebrate. So, to celebrate. So, to celebrate. So, get to know yourself. get to know yourself. But the other guys But the other guys were like, "Sean, we should were like, "Sean, we should were like, "Sean, we should go to go to go to strip club." And we're strip club." And we're strip club." And we're just going to play just going to play Colonizers and Colonizers and Colonizers and try to get out try to get out try to get out of this room. of this room. of this room. Well, no, that's the Well, no, that's the Well, no, that's the beauty of it: if you do beauty of it: if you do beauty of it: if you do something that you really like something that you really like something that you really like , you're going to repel , you're going to repel , you're going to repel people who want to people who want to people who want to hang out in hang out in hang out in strip clubs and strip clubs and strip clubs and attract people who are like attract people who are like attract people who are like you. Those are going to be really you. Those are going to be really easy people easy people to work with, right? Because you to work with, right? Because you to work with, right? Because you attract like-minded people attract like-minded people . It becomes a kind of . It becomes a kind of . It becomes a kind of magnet. magnet. magnet. So, what's the second thing? You So, what's the second thing? You So, what's the second thing? You said, uh... said, uh... said, uh... So, the first thing is to look back So, the first thing is to look back So, the first thing is to look back at your at your at your childhood, remember what childhood, remember what childhood, remember what you loved back then. And the second thing is, don't you loved back then. And the second thing is, don't dismiss it. You don't... You have to be a little bit You have to be a little bit You have to be a little bit shameless about it. shameless about it. shameless about it. And I'll give you... So And I'll give you... So And I'll give you... So why are we even why are we even why are we even talking about this? Well, our talking about this? Well, our talking about this? Well, our friend who friend who friend who used to come on the show, Alan used to come on the show, Alan used to come on the show, Alan Lee. Alan Lee was one Lee. Alan Lee was one Lee. Alan Lee was one of the creators of the of the creators of the of the creators of the board game Exploding board game Exploding board game Exploding Kittens. He built a Kittens. He built a Kittens. He built a huge--I don't know huge--I don't know huge--I don't know if he spoke if he spoke if he spoke the numbers publicly, but the numbers publicly, but the numbers publicly, but just a huge just a huge just a huge business in business in business in board games and board games and board games and card games. If card games. If card games. If you go into the you go into the you go into the game section at Target, you'll see game section at Target, you'll see game section at Target, you'll see that seven of the top ten that seven of the top ten that seven of the top ten most popular games most popular games most popular games in the world are his in the world are his in the world are his creations. You know, it's creations. You know, it's creations. You know, it's basically a monopoly. basically a monopoly. basically a monopoly. So, why am I... I So, why am I... I So, why am I... I was at his house. was at his house. was at his house. He has a house in He has a house in He has a house in Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. I think he I think he I think he was telling us he was was telling us he was was telling us he was building it. He building it. He building it. He even showed us even showed us even showed us pictures. Is this a pictures. Is this a pictures. Is this a dream house? dream house? dream house? Well, it wasn't the Well, it wasn't the Well, it wasn't the dream house. It was the dream house. It was the dream house. It was the house he house he house he lives in while lives in while lives in while this huge this huge this huge dream house is being built. And I dream house is being built. And I dream house is being built. And I go up to his go up to his go up to his office. And his office. And his office. And his office is like a office is like a office is like a toy store. toy store. toy store. Not only does he have all Not only does he have all Not only does he have all his games, but he also has these his games, but he also has these his games, but he also has these crazy crazy crazy LEGO structures that LEGO structures that LEGO structures that he builds. He he builds. He he builds. He puts LEDs in them puts LEDs in them puts LEDs in them . It's . It's . It's just an incredible just an incredible just an incredible structure. He's like structure. He's like structure. He's like a kid, right? He a kid, right? He a kid, right? He still does what he still does what he still does what he loved as a kid. loved as a kid. loved as a kid. He still does it now. He still does it now. He still does it now. He had a He had a He had a dinosaur egg, a real, dinosaur egg, a real, dinosaur egg, a real, fossilized fossilized fossilized dinosaur egg. And he says, dinosaur egg. And he says, dinosaur egg. And he says, "If kiss it or "If kiss it or "If kiss it or lick it, you can lick it, you can lick it, you can sign the book." sign the book." sign the book." So I kissed the So I kissed the So I kissed the dinosaur egg. I signed dinosaur egg. I signed dinosaur egg. I signed the book. And I thought, "This is the book. And I thought, "This is the book. And I thought, "This is worth millions of worth millions of worth millions of dollars." And he dollars." And he dollars." And he doesn't even have it doesn't even have it doesn't even have it in the window. He says, " in the window. He says, " How boring." " How boring." " Eight-year-old me Eight-year-old me Eight-year-old me would think this would think this would think this sucks." "I sucks." "I sucks." "I can't even can't even can't even touch it." touch it." touch it." Eight-year-old me would want to Eight-year-old me would want to Eight-year-old me would want to touch touch touch it and show it to it and show it to it and show it to my friends. So he my friends. So he my friends. So he took out the egg. He took out the egg. He took out the egg. He lets his friends lets his friends lets his friends touch it and touch it and touch it and kiss it and kiss it and kiss it and lick it. And then lick it. And then lick it. And then he showed me that there he showed me that there he showed me that there was an Xbox. And he says, " was an Xbox. And he says, " was an Xbox. And he says, " This is the first Xbox." I'm like, This is the first Xbox." I'm like, This is the first Xbox." I'm like, "Dude, how did you... How much "Dude, how did you... How much "Dude, how did you... How much did it cost? You... He's did it cost? You... He's did it cost? You... He's like, "Oh, I got it like, "Oh, I got it like, "Oh, I got it , they , they , they gave it to me." I'm like, "Well, how gave it to me." I'm like, "Well, how gave it to me." I'm like, "Well, how did you do it?" "He did you do it?" "He did you do it?" "He says, 'Well, I says, 'Well, I says, 'Well, I designed it.' I'm like, designed it.' I'm like, 'What?' "He says, 'My 'What?' "He says, 'My 'What?' "He says, 'My first job was Xbox first job was Xbox , you know, Microsoft gave , you know, Microsoft gave , you know, Microsoft gave me a bunch of money and a me a bunch of money and a me a bunch of money and a team and said, ' team and said, ' Design a competitor to Design a competitor to Design a competitor to PlayStation.'" So this is the first PlayStation.'" So this is the first PlayStation.'" So this is the first prototype we ever prototype we ever prototype we ever built. built. built. I'm very proud of him." I'm very proud of him." I'm very proud of him." Wait, just Wait, just to give you a quick idea to give you a quick idea to give you a quick idea of ​​this guy, he's of ​​this guy, he's ...he's incredibly ...he's incredibly ...he's incredibly rich. Uh, like, who rich. Uh, like, who rich. Uh, like, who knows? Maybe it's a knows? Maybe it's a knows? Maybe it's a billion-dollar company, billion-dollar company, billion-dollar company, who knows? Let's say who knows? Let's say who knows? Let's say he's a hundred- he's a hundred- he's a hundred- millionaire or a millionaire or a millionaire or a billionaire. He says to billionaire. He says to billionaire. He says to us, a group of guys, 20 us, a group of guys, 20 us, a group of guys, 20 of us, he says, "Hey, do of us, he says, "Hey, do of us, he says, "Hey, do you want to see you want to see you want to see my new game? "And he my new game? "And he my new game? "And he gets on all fours, gets on all fours, gets on all fours, takes out these glasses, takes out these glasses, takes out these glasses, tries to kind of tries to kind of tries to kind of look, he's like look, he's like , okay. , okay. , okay. He takes out a monocle? He takes out a monocle? He takes out a monocle? What do you call a What do you call a What do you call a monocle when you have two of them? monocle when you have two of them? monocle when you have two of them? No. Okay, so these were No. Okay, so these were No. Okay, so these were glasses. Here are the arms, glasses. Here are the arms, glasses. Here are the arms, right? They're what you need to right? They're what you need to keep the glasses on your face. keep the glasses on your face. He had glasses He had glasses He had glasses that were just two that were just two that were just two lenses. lenses. lenses. Yeah, and they were kind of Yeah, and they were kind of Yeah, and they were kind of balanced. balanced. balanced. on his nose in on his nose in on his nose in perfect balance. perfect balance. perfect balance. And he was wearing And he was wearing And he was wearing sweatpants and sweatpants and sweatpants and socks. It was... socks. It was... actually, I'm trying to actually, I'm trying to actually, I'm trying to say. He was like an say. He was like an say. He was like an old kid. He's old kid. He's old kid. He's not really old, not really old, not really old, but he's like an adult but he's like an adult but he's like an adult kid. And he's on all kid. And he's on all kid. And he's on all fours, and he's like, " fours, and he's like, " Okay." So you Okay." So you Okay." So you just got this just got this just got this card. I think that card. I think that card. I think that means you means you means you have to do it. a have to do it. a have to do it. a blank deck blank deck blank deck that he could just that he could just that he could just take a marker and take a marker and take a marker and come up with a game on the come up with a game on the come up with a game on the spot. That's kind of what spot. That's kind of what spot. That's kind of what he was doing for he was doing for he was doing for us. us. us. And he was kind of testing And he was kind of testing And he was kind of testing to see, and he's to see, and he's to see, and he's like, "This means like, "This means like, "This means do it." And he do it." And he do it." And he was looking to see if I really I'll was looking to see if I really I'll was looking to see if I really I'll go and do this, and would go and do this, and would go and do this, and would I be happy to I be happy to I be happy to do it. And he was kind of do it. And he was kind of do it. And he was kind of testing the prototype on testing the prototype on testing the prototype on us. Like he was us. Like he was us. Like he was testing our testing our testing our reactions. Like a comedian reactions. Like a comedian reactions. Like a comedian testing his testing his testing his jokes in public to jokes in public to jokes in public to see if they were see if they were see if they were worth watching. And it's so worth watching. And it's so worth watching. And it's so funny that he did funny that he did funny that he did it so casually, and it so casually, and it so casually, and I found it very I found it very I found it very inspiring. inspiring. So if you think about So if you think about this guy, he didn't just this guy, he didn't just this guy, he didn't just dismiss it and dismiss it and dismiss it and say, "Yeah, this is say, "Yeah, this is say, "Yeah, this is fun, but it's time to get fun, but it's time to get fun, but it's time to get to work." to work." He just He just kept kept kept doing it until it doing it until it doing it until it became his job, and became his job, and became his job, and he became the best in the he became the best in the he became the best in the world at it— world at it— world at it— making games, playing games, making games, playing games, making games, playing games, making making making games that people games that people games that people love. So he did love. So he did love. So he did n't just n't just n't just brush it off brush it off brush it off . And when we were . And when we were . And when we were hanging out together, hanging out together, hanging out together, he would tell me he would tell me he would tell me about escape rooms. So I about escape rooms. So I about escape rooms. So I thought I thought I thought I liked escape liked escape rooms. And I thought rooms. And I thought rooms. And I thought our trip to the escape our trip to the escape room was a pretty big room was a pretty big room was a pretty big indulgence for my indulgence for my indulgence for my passions. Dude, passions. Dude, passions. Dude, he travels the world he travels the world he travels the world with a group of 15 geeks, with a group of 15 geeks, with a group of 15 geeks, testing every testing every testing every escape room, or the escape room, or the escape room, or the best escape rooms best escape rooms best escape rooms in the world. He goes on, in the world. He goes on, in the world. He goes on, like, a bachelor like, a bachelor like, a bachelor party, every couple of party, every couple of party, every couple of years, testing years, testing years, testing the best escape rooms in the the best escape rooms in the the best escape rooms in the world and trying to world and trying to world and trying to escape them with his escape them with his escape them with his friends, and that's how friends, and that's how friends, and that's how he relaxes. That he relaxes. That he relaxes. That was just one of the was just one of the was just one of the things he does. things he does. things he does. And I was like, "Wow, this And I was like, "Wow, this And I was like, "Wow, this guy, if you took the guy, if you took the guy, if you took the restrictions or the filter off, it's like, restrictions or the filter off, it's like, restrictions or the filter off, it's like, 'Yeah, that's me,' but 'Yeah, that's me,' but 'Yeah, that's me,' but it would be a little weird it would be a little weird ." So let me ." So let me ." So let me keep a little bit of that keep a little bit of that keep a little bit of that to myself. It's like, "No, to myself. It's like, "No, to myself. It's like, "No, dude." What, what did you dude." What, what did you dude." What, what did you say in your say in your say in your office before? office before? office before? Let your Let your Let your weirdness out, baby. weirdness out, baby. weirdness out, baby. That's right. And that's what That's right. And that's what That's right. And that's what he does. And I think he does. And I think he does. And I think that's part two. that's part two. that's part two. Notice what Notice what Notice what turns you on, and then let it go turns you on, and then let it go turns you on, and then let it go . . . It's so cool. Dude, It's so cool. Dude, It's so cool. Dude, okay. So I just okay. So I just okay. So I just got back from a 7-day got back from a 7-day got back from a 7-day trip to San- trip to San- Francisco. Can you Francisco. Can you Francisco. Can you tell me one of tell me one of tell me one of my main my main my main findings? You did findings? You did findings? You did that with New York. that with New York. that with New York. You had a lot of them. You had a lot of them. You had a lot of them. I had one I had one I had one major one. So, major one. So, major one. So, OK. OK. OK. San Francisco is the San Francisco is the San Francisco is the best city on best city on best city on Earth, in my opinion, Earth, in my opinion, Earth, in my opinion, to evoke a to evoke a to evoke a sense of awe. So sense of awe. So the definition, or to the definition, or to the definition, or to paraphrase paraphrase paraphrase the definition, is the definition, is the definition, is essentially experiencing essentially experiencing essentially experiencing both a sense of both a sense of both a sense of grandeur, which grandeur, which grandeur, which means something really means something really means something really big, something that big, something that big, something that feels feels feels infinite or infinite or infinite or incredibly old, and incredibly old, and incredibly old, and at the same time it's something that kind of at the same time it's something that kind of at the same time it's something that kind of disrupts disrupts disrupts your mental your mental your mental system, your system, your system, your mental schema. So mental schema. So your brain has to do your brain has to do your brain has to do this thing called this thing called this thing called accommodation, where you accommodation, where you accommodation, where you have to change the have to change the have to change the way you think in order to way you think in order to way you think in order to fit what you're fit what you're fit what you're seeing into your schema. seeing into your schema. seeing into your schema. And it's a bit like And it's a bit like And it's a bit like what we call " what we call " frame breaking." And frame breaking." And frame breaking." And it can't it can't it can't just be spectacular, just be spectacular, just be spectacular, you know, it can't you know, it can't you know, it can't just be something just be something just be something big. It has to be big. It has to be big. It has to be so big so big so big or epic that it's or epic that it's or epic that it's different from what different from what different from what I'm used to and I'm used to and I'm used to and how I define life. And how I define life. And how I define life. And that's the emotion of awe. that's the emotion of awe. that's the emotion of awe. Well, I was just going to Well, I was just going to Well, I was just going to look at the exact look at the exact look at the exact definition, which is very definition, which is very definition, which is very similar to yours, similar to yours, similar to yours, but with a little but with a little but with a little twist. So it twist. So it twist. So it says that awe says that awe is an intense feeling of is an intense feeling of is an intense feeling of deep respect, deep respect, deep respect, wonder, and admiration, wonder, and admiration, wonder, and admiration, often mixed with a often mixed with a often mixed with a little fear or little fear or little fear or anxiety, which is also common anxiety, which is also common anxiety, which is also common in in in San Francisco. San Francisco. Yes, I felt that. But Yes, I felt that. But I want to explain why I want to explain why I want to explain why I felt awe in a I felt awe in a I felt awe in a good way, because not good way, because not good way, because not all awe is bad all awe is bad . You can feel . You can feel . You can feel awe before a awe before a awe before a terrible thing. Like terrible thing. Like terrible thing. Like when you read about when you read about when you read about World War II, you World War II, you World War II, you can feel can feel can feel awe, and that's not awe, and that's not awe, and that's not necessarily a necessarily a necessarily a good thing. But actually, what's good thing. But actually, what's good thing. But actually, what's interesting about awe is that interesting about awe is that interesting about awe is that I've noticed—and I think I've noticed—and I think I've noticed—and I think I've not just read a I've not just read a I've not just read a little bit about it, but this is little bit about it, but this is little bit about it, but this is partly my opinion partly my opinion —it reduces —it reduces —it reduces anxiety and anxiety and anxiety and depression because it depression because it depression because it creates an emotion that creates an emotion that creates an emotion that diminishes your own self. diminishes your own self. Often anxiety and Often anxiety and depression exist depression exist depression exist because you are the center of because you are the center of because you are the center of all your problems. all your problems. all your problems. It's basically me, me, me, and It's basically me, me, me, and It's basically me, me, me, and you all the time. think you all the time. think you all the time. think about yourself. And I think about yourself. And I think about yourself. And I think we all need to be we all need to be self-reflective. I self-reflective. I mean, we need to be thinking mean, we need to be thinking mean, we need to be thinking about problems all the time about problems all the time , but when you're , but when you're , but when you're feeling awe, feeling awe, feeling awe, the opportunities that the opportunities that the opportunities that exist either seem exist either seem exist either seem much bigger much bigger much bigger than you think or than you think or than you think or just not that important, and just not that important, and just not that important, and you stop thinking you stop thinking you stop thinking about yourself and start about yourself and start about yourself and start thinking more about what thinking more about what thinking more about what you see. And when I'm in you see. And when I'm in you see. And when I'm in San Francisco, I San Francisco, I San Francisco, I drive through the Presidio, drive through the Presidio, drive through the Presidio, and you see these and you see these and you see these huge hills, and huge hills, and huge hills, and you see the views. And I've you see the views. And I've you see the views. And I've noticed that seeing noticed that seeing noticed that seeing horizons, especially horizons, especially horizons, especially when it's a big when it's a big when it's a big view, like the view, like the view, like the ocean -- you're over the ocean ocean -- you're over the ocean ocean -- you're over the ocean and you can look out over it and you can look out over it -- it gives me this -- it gives me this -- it gives me this deep sense of deep sense of deep sense of peace, a deep peace, a deep peace, a deep sense of, well, sense of, well, sense of, well, awe, actually. And I think awe, actually. And I think awe, actually. And I think it's an incredibly it's an incredibly it's an incredibly exciting, but also a exciting, but also a exciting, but also a very inspiring very inspiring very inspiring emotion. And I left emotion. And I left emotion. And I left San Francisco San Francisco San Francisco thinking that it's the thinking that it's the thinking that it's the best feeling on best feeling on best feeling on Earth. Earth. Well, you described the Well, you described the natural side of it. natural side of it. natural side of it. I'm surprised you didn't I'm surprised you didn't I'm surprised you didn't mention the mention the mention the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial entrepreneurial excitement, which is also excitement, which is also excitement, which is also You feel it. Because we You feel it. Because we You feel it. Because we sat there all day sat there all day , and every 20 minutes, a , and every 20 minutes, a , and every 20 minutes, a new founder would new founder would new founder would come in and sit in come in and sit in come in and sit in front of us. front of us. front of us. We basically did an We basically did an We basically did an episode where nine episode where nine episode where nine founders founders founders talked about what talked about what talked about what they were working on. they were working on. they were working on. So, it's like sitting in the So, it's like sitting in the So, it's like sitting in the hot seat, hot seat, hot seat, you tell us what you you tell us what you you tell us what you do, you give us the numbers, do, you give us the numbers, do, you give us the numbers, and we dive into the and we dive into the and we dive into the details of your business. details of your business. details of your business. What did you think of that? What did you think of that? What did you think of that? You're a New Yorker, you're You're a New Yorker, you're You're a New Yorker, you're used to the hustle and bustle, used to the hustle and bustle, used to the hustle and bustle, but in San Francisco, the but in San Francisco, the but in San Francisco, the businesses are different, and the people who businesses are different, and the people who businesses are different, and the people who run them are run them are run them are completely different. completely different. completely different. I thought it was I thought it was I thought it was fantastic. More fantastic. More fantastic. More than the businesses themselves, what than the businesses themselves, what than the businesses themselves, what I like about San Francisco is that I like about San Francisco is that for me, as an for me, as an outsider, there was outsider, there was outsider, there was a lot a lot a lot more quirkiness more quirkiness , a lot more " , a lot more " , a lot more " nerdiness," more of a nerdiness," more of a nerdiness," more of a defiance of the norm, defiance of the norm, defiance of the norm, which I really love and find which I really love and find a lot of inspiration from. For example, we For example, we met this met this met this guy, who was Indian. He guy, who was Indian. He guy, who was Indian. He built a machine that built a machine that built a machine that made us made us made us fettuccine. Alfredo, an fettuccine. Alfredo, an fettuccine. Alfredo, an Italian dish, and Italian dish, and Italian dish, and I thought, "How I thought, "How I thought, "How ridiculous and wonderful is it ridiculous and wonderful is it ridiculous and wonderful is it that an Indian man who that an Indian man who that an Indian man who talks about his talks about his talks about his childhood in India is childhood in India is childhood in India is now using a now using a now using a robot to cook robot to cook robot to cook us Italian food?" "And us Italian food?" "And us Italian food?" "And I thought, this is a I thought, this is a I thought, this is a really weird, really weird, really weird, cool thing, and we cool thing, and we cool thing, and we were talking to were talking to were talking to these weird, these weird, these weird, cool people, and cool people, and cool people, and there was a there was a there was a lot of that. lot of that. lot of that. Yeah, San Francisco has Yeah, San Francisco has Yeah, San Francisco has the most startup the most startup ideas that sound ideas that sound ideas that sound terrible and probably are than terrible and probably are than terrible and probably are than anywhere else anywhere else anywhere else where there are entrepreneurs. where there are entrepreneurs. where there are entrepreneurs. Because a lot of other Because a lot of other Because a lot of other entrepreneurs are doing, entrepreneurs are doing, entrepreneurs are doing, well, you know, if you go well, you know, if you go well, you know, if you go to New York, you'll to New York, you'll to New York, you'll meet a lot of, meet a lot of, meet a lot of, say, media say, media entrepreneurs. And they're entrepreneurs. And they're entrepreneurs. And they're doing media, and doing media, and doing media, and media is understandable, media is understandable, media is understandable, and that's good. It's really a and that's good. It's really a performance-based business. Whereas in performance-based business. Whereas in San Francisco, you're just kind of San Francisco, you're just kind of San Francisco, you're just kind of panning for gold, panning for gold, panning for gold, and most of the time you're and most of the time you're and most of the time you're just finding dirt and just finding dirt and just finding dirt and sand. And I could sand. And I could sand. And I could tell you, there's probably tell you, there's probably tell you, there's probably just just just dirt there. But every now and then dirt there. But every now and then dirt there. But every now and then someone finds someone finds someone finds gold, and that's what keeps gold, and that's what keeps gold, and that's what keeps everyone everyone going with these going with these weird, uncharted, weird, uncharted, weird, uncharted, random ideas. The random ideas. The random ideas. The diversity of ideas there is diversity of ideas there is diversity of ideas there is just completely different just completely different just completely different than anywhere else than anywhere else than anywhere else you might you might you might find businesses. find businesses. find businesses. I think If I were I think If I were I think If I were 20 or 22 years old and I was just 20 or 22 years old and I was just 20 or 22 years old and I was just out of college and out of college and out of college and I was even slightly I was even slightly I was even slightly interested in technology, interested in technology, interested in technology, I would definitely I would definitely I would definitely think that this is the think that this is the think that this is the best field. best field. best field. Yeah, I agree. I agree Yeah, I agree. I agree Yeah, I agree. I agree . . . I just started reading it. Have I just started reading it. Have I just started reading it. Have you heard of the book "The you heard of the book "The Art Thief"? Art Thief"? Art Thief"? No. It's a No. It's a No. It's a very, very popular very, very popular very, very popular book. I'm just book. I'm just book. I'm just starting out, but it's starting out, but it's starting out, but it's the story of a guy, the the story of a guy, the the story of a guy, the true story of an true story of an art thief who stole , I think, , I think, , I think, $3 billion worth of art. And $3 billion worth of art. And $3 billion worth of art. And what makes this book what makes this book what makes this book incredible, and what makes this incredible, and what makes this incredible, and what makes this guy such a fascinating guy such a fascinating guy such a fascinating character, is that he character, is that he character, is that he never sold never sold never sold any any any art. He stole art. He stole art. He stole them because he had a them because he had a them because he had a code of conduct. He thought he was code of conduct. He thought he was code of conduct. He thought he was doing the right thing: " doing the right thing: " doing the right thing: " You can't steal You can't steal You can't steal art that art that art that hurts people, and you have to hurts people, and you have to hurts people, and you have to do it in the middle of the day do it in the middle of the day , while the museum is , while the museum is , while the museum is open." Like, there open." Like, there open." Like, there shouldn't be any shouldn't be any shouldn't be any big-name robberies. big-name robberies. big-name robberies. So he was a genius, you So he was a genius, you So he was a genius, you could say, in how he would could say, in how he would could say, in how he would go into a museum, and go into a museum, and go into a museum, and when... He when... He when... He studied the guards for weeks, and studied the guards for weeks, and studied the guards for weeks, and when they would go to when they would go to when they would go to After a shift, he would After a shift, he would After a shift, he would quickly unscrew quickly unscrew quickly unscrew the screw, put it in his the screw, put it in his the screw, put it in his pocket, and just pocket, and just walk away. And he would walk away. And he would do this over and over again do this over and over again until he got until he got until he got the piece he wanted. And the piece he wanted. And the piece he wanted. And the craziest thing is, the craziest thing is, the craziest thing is, when he when he when he got arrested, he got arrested, he got arrested, he had his girlfriend with him, had his girlfriend with him, had his girlfriend with him, who was an who was an who was an accomplice. They were accomplice. They were accomplice. They were living in his living in his living in his mother's apartment, in a tiny mother's apartment, in a tiny mother's apartment, in a tiny room. And in that room. And in that room. And in that room was room was about about $3 billion worth of art. It $3 billion worth of art. It $3 billion worth of art. It was paintings, was paintings, was paintings, trinkets, and he trinkets, and he trinkets, and he had this famous statue had this famous statue . Google the statue of . Google the statue of . Google the statue of Adam and Eve. It's Adam and Eve. It's Adam and Eve. It's the size of a the size of a shoebox, but it's a shoebox, but it's a shoebox, but it's a beautiful statue. And I beautiful statue. And I beautiful statue. And I think it's think it's think it's worth tens of worth tens of worth tens of millions of dollars. millions of dollars. He kept it on his bedside He kept it on his bedside table table table because he said because he said because he said art shouldn't art shouldn't art shouldn't be in a museum where be in a museum where be in a museum where some guide tells a some guide tells a some guide tells a memorized story and you memorized story and you memorized story and you barely pay barely pay barely pay attention to it. He said attention to it. He said attention to it. He said it should be in my it should be in my it should be in my room, where I can room, where I can room, where I can wake up, wake up, wake up, touch it, and touch it, and really to experience really to experience really to experience this work of art. this work of art. this work of art. Is it strange to have so much Is it strange to have so much Is it strange to have so much respect and respect and respect and admiration for this admiration for this admiration for this true criminal? true criminal? true criminal? Because I do. Because I do. Yes, it's strange, but it Yes, it's strange, but it brings us back to the idea brings us back to the idea brings us back to the idea of ​​awe, and of ​​awe, and of ​​awe, and not all awe is not all awe is not all awe is good. So good. So good. So yes, I can acknowledge yes, I can acknowledge yes, I can acknowledge that he did something that he did something that he did something wrong, and at wrong, and at wrong, and at the same time I can the same time I can the same time I can admire admire admire how perfect how perfect how perfect his code was, even his code was, even his code was, even when he was stealing. It's when he was stealing. It's when he was stealing. It's related to what related to what related to what you're saying: he was you're saying: he was you're saying: he was so fascinated by so fascinated by so fascinated by it because his grandfather it because his grandfather it because his grandfather liked to go on the beach with a liked to go on the beach with a liked to go on the beach with a metal detector, so metal detector, so metal detector, so he became obsessed with he became obsessed with he became obsessed with treasure hunting, treasure hunting, treasure hunting, like Dan like Dan like Dan Brown, and he became Brown, and he became Brown, and he became obsessed with art obsessed with art . So it's a pretty interesting . So it's a pretty interesting . So it's a pretty interesting story, and I ask story, and I ask story, and I ask myself, "Why am I so myself, "Why am I so myself, "Why am I so drawn to this story drawn to this story ?" and you ?" and you ?" and you explain part of why: explain part of why: explain part of why: because enthusiasm is because enthusiasm is because enthusiasm is contagious. contagious. contagious. Okay, I don't know how we Okay, I don't know how we Okay, I don't know how we got here, but got here, but got here, but it was amazing. it was amazing. it was amazing. I have to run. So I have to run. So I have to run. So let's get let's get let's get this over with. That's it this over with. That's it this over with. That's it . That was the . That was the . That was the podcast.