19 Uncomfortable Truths About Human Nature - Gurwinder Bhogal

It's been too long, man. You write these It's been too long, man. You write these awesome things on the internet. We This awesome things on the internet. We This awesome things on the internet. We This is the eighth time we've done this now. is the eighth time we've done this now. is the eighth time we've done this now. For the people that haven't seen you For the people that haven't seen you For the people that haven't seen you before, you come up with some of my before, you come up with some of my before, you come up with some of my favorite apherisms and insights and favorite apherisms and insights and favorite apherisms and insights and stuff. And we just do the We're kind of stuff. And we just do the We're kind of stuff. And we just do the We're kind of like the Bonnie Blue of interesting like the Bonnie Blue of interesting like the Bonnie Blue of interesting insights about the internet. We're just insights about the internet. We're just insights about the internet. We're just taking whatever we get. It's high taking whatever we get. It's high taking whatever we get. It's high velocity stuff. And the first one that I velocity stuff. And the first one that I velocity stuff. And the first one that I want to get into, the oxytocin paradox, want to get into, the oxytocin paradox, want to get into, the oxytocin paradox, this is one of yours. Oxytocin, the love this is one of yours. Oxytocin, the love this is one of yours. Oxytocin, the love hormone, can also make people spiteful. hormone, can also make people spiteful. hormone, can also make people spiteful. Cruelty is not simply the opposite of Cruelty is not simply the opposite of Cruelty is not simply the opposite of compassion. It's often adjacent to it. compassion. It's often adjacent to it. compassion. It's often adjacent to it. For instance, the platform most For instance, the platform most For instance, the platform most dominated by social justice activists. dominated by social justice activists. dominated by social justice activists. Blue Sky is also the one with the Blue Sky is also the one with the Blue Sky is also the one with the highest support for assassinations. highest support for assassinations. highest support for assassinations. Beware of those quick to show empathy, Beware of those quick to show empathy, Beware of those quick to show empathy, for they are often just as quick to show for they are often just as quick to show for they are often just as quick to show barbarity. barbarity. barbarity. >> Yeah. So this is a finding that I sort >> Yeah. So this is a finding that I sort >> Yeah. So this is a finding that I sort of came across quite recently, but it of came across quite recently, but it of came across quite recently, but it confirms something I've long known, confirms something I've long known, confirms something I've long known, which is that people who outwardly which is that people who outwardly which is that people who outwardly express a lot of empathy tend to also be express a lot of empathy tend to also be express a lot of empathy tend to also be equally capable of cruelty to that same equally capable of cruelty to that same equally capable of cruelty to that same extent. Um, and I first learned about extent. Um, and I first learned about extent. Um, and I first learned about this uh from a book called Against this uh from a book called Against this uh from a book called Against Empathy by um by Paul Bloom, who's a Empathy by um by Paul Bloom, who's a Empathy by um by Paul Bloom, who's a psychologist. And in this book, I think psychologist. And in this book, I think psychologist. And in this book, I think you've had him on the show. Um, in in you've had him on the show. Um, in in you've had him on the show. Um, in in this uh in this book, he basically talks this uh in this book, he basically talks this uh in this book, he basically talks about how people tend to assume that about how people tend to assume that about how people tend to assume that empathy is a just a good thing overall. empathy is a just a good thing overall. empathy is a just a good thing overall. You know, that it's not that we need You know, that it's not that we need You know, that it's not that we need more empathy, that that empathy is like more empathy, that that empathy is like more empathy, that that empathy is like in short supply. Um, but really empathy in short supply. Um, but really empathy in short supply. Um, but really empathy is inroup loyalty. That's what it is. is inroup loyalty. That's what it is. is inroup loyalty. That's what it is. It's, you know, because we're tribal It's, you know, because we're tribal It's, you know, because we're tribal animals. And what empathy is is it's animals. And what empathy is is it's animals. And what empathy is is it's when you empathize with someone. The way when you empathize with someone. The way when you empathize with someone. The way he describes it is you don't empathize he describes it is you don't empathize he describes it is you don't empathize with everybody at the same time. You with everybody at the same time. You with everybody at the same time. You empathize with select people. And the empathize with select people. And the empathize with select people. And the way he describes it is that it's empathy way he describes it is that it's empathy way he describes it is that it's empathy is like a spotlight. So you shine it on is like a spotlight. So you shine it on is like a spotlight. So you shine it on people, you know, a small group of people, you know, a small group of people, you know, a small group of people at a time or just an individual people at a time or just an individual people at a time or just an individual at a time. But while you have empathy at a time. But while you have empathy at a time. But while you have empathy shined on that person, everybody else is shined on that person, everybody else is shined on that person, everybody else is in darkness, which basically is in darkness, which basically is in darkness, which basically is basically means that you don't have any basically means that you don't have any basically means that you don't have any real feelings for that person that's real feelings for that person that's real feelings for that person that's outside of that spotlight. So what this outside of that spotlight. So what this outside of that spotlight. So what this can mean is that if you empathize, so can mean is that if you empathize, so can mean is that if you empathize, so let's take a real world example. Let's let's take a real world example. Let's let's take a real world example. Let's say you're somebody who empathizes with say you're somebody who empathizes with say you're somebody who empathizes with the plight of the Palestinians. the plight of the Palestinians. the plight of the Palestinians. So you you'll have a lot of love for So you you'll have a lot of love for So you you'll have a lot of love for those for those people and you'll be those for those people and you'll be those for those people and you'll be very very concerned about them. But very very concerned about them. But very very concerned about them. But there's a there's a kind of yin-yang there's a there's a kind of yin-yang there's a there's a kind of yin-yang effect where because you have so much effect where because you have so much effect where because you have so much concern for them, you have negative concern for them, you have negative concern for them, you have negative concern for Israelis. concern for Israelis. concern for Israelis. So it's not like, you know, you just So it's not like, you know, you just So it's not like, you know, you just have love for one group of people and have love for one group of people and have love for one group of people and then everybody else you're you're sort then everybody else you're you're sort then everybody else you're you're sort of neutral to. It can actually have a of neutral to. It can actually have a of neutral to. It can actually have a sort of almost like a zero sum effect. sort of almost like a zero sum effect. sort of almost like a zero sum effect. The more empathy you have for one group The more empathy you have for one group The more empathy you have for one group of people, the less empathy you have for of people, the less empathy you have for of people, the less empathy you have for other people. And this is I think a other people. And this is I think a other people. And this is I think a major driver of sort of cruelty and major driver of sort of cruelty and major driver of sort of cruelty and spite in the world. When you consider spite in the world. When you consider spite in the world. When you consider like the people that go out there and like the people that go out there and like the people that go out there and commit political violence, what you commit political violence, what you commit political violence, what you often see is that these people empathize often see is that these people empathize often see is that these people empathize very strongly with one group of people. very strongly with one group of people. very strongly with one group of people. So again, you know, if we go go with the So again, you know, if we go go with the So again, you know, if we go go with the Palestinian analogy, a group like Hamas Palestinian analogy, a group like Hamas Palestinian analogy, a group like Hamas for instance, you know, Hamas have a lot for instance, you know, Hamas have a lot for instance, you know, Hamas have a lot of empathy for Palestinians. At least of empathy for Palestinians. At least of empathy for Palestinians. At least they they do claim to. Um but then that they they do claim to. Um but then that they they do claim to. Um but then that equates also to hostility equates also to hostility equates also to hostility corresponding hostility proportionate to corresponding hostility proportionate to corresponding hostility proportionate to Israelis. Uh you see it also with again Israelis. Uh you see it also with again Israelis. Uh you see it also with again with the example that I gave in that in with the example that I gave in that in with the example that I gave in that in that piece which is about blue sky. So that piece which is about blue sky. So that piece which is about blue sky. So blue sky obviously is where all the blue sky obviously is where all the blue sky obviously is where all the social justice people hang out. you social justice people hang out. you social justice people hang out. you know, it's basically all refugees from know, it's basically all refugees from know, it's basically all refugees from Musk's ex. Uh, so, you know, these are Musk's ex. Uh, so, you know, these are Musk's ex. Uh, so, you know, these are all people that you would think would be all people that you would think would be all people that you would think would be extremely compassionate, extremely sort extremely compassionate, extremely sort extremely compassionate, extremely sort of empathic, and they are. They are, but of empathic, and they are. They are, but of empathic, and they are. They are, but only to a small group of people. For only to a small group of people. For only to a small group of people. For example, you know, the left when they example, you know, the left when they example, you know, the left when they call for empathy, they don't call for call for empathy, they don't call for call for empathy, they don't call for empathy for right-wingers. They call for empathy for right-wingers. They call for empathy for right-wingers. They call for empathy towards immigrants or towards empathy towards immigrants or towards empathy towards immigrants or towards trans people, you know. So, their trans people, you know. So, their trans people, you know. So, their empathy is very selective. empathy is very selective. empathy is very selective. And this is why when when you look at And this is why when when you look at And this is why when when you look at recent research, you find that the recent research, you find that the recent research, you find that the amount of support for assassinations is amount of support for assassinations is amount of support for assassinations is strongest amongst the people that you strongest amongst the people that you strongest amongst the people that you would expect to be the most would expect to be the most would expect to be the most compassionate basically. compassionate basically. compassionate basically. >> Well, you saw that with Luigi Manion, >> Well, you saw that with Luigi Manion, >> Well, you saw that with Luigi Manion, right? That he had a manifesto. He was right? That he had a manifesto. He was right? That he had a manifesto. He was very empathetic toward people who'd been very empathetic toward people who'd been very empathetic toward people who'd been screwed over by health care services. screwed over by health care services. screwed over by health care services. People who'd had their healthcare denied People who'd had their healthcare denied People who'd had their healthcare denied and their claims that had been rebuked and their claims that had been rebuked and their claims that had been rebuked due to, you know, squirrely due to, you know, squirrely due to, you know, squirrely manipulation behind the scenes and that manipulation behind the scenes and that manipulation behind the scenes and that resulted in him shooting a guy in the resulted in him shooting a guy in the resulted in him shooting a guy in the head. head. head. >> Yeah. Um but yeah, so I mean yes, so I >> Yeah. Um but yeah, so I mean yes, so I >> Yeah. Um but yeah, so I mean yes, so I sort of met Luigi um in 2024 uh and uh sort of met Luigi um in 2024 uh and uh sort of met Luigi um in 2024 uh and uh he seemed like a really nice guy, you he seemed like a really nice guy, you he seemed like a really nice guy, you know. I can't say a single bad thing know. I can't say a single bad thing know. I can't say a single bad thing about him from our conversation. He about him from our conversation. He about him from our conversation. He really did seem like a generally nice really did seem like a generally nice really did seem like a generally nice person. person. person. >> You spoke to him for a couple of hours, >> You spoke to him for a couple of hours, >> You spoke to him for a couple of hours, right? right? right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I had a 2-hour conversation >> Yeah. Yeah. I had a 2-hour conversation >> Yeah. Yeah. I had a 2-hour conversation with him. Um because he was, you know, with him. Um because he was, you know, with him. Um because he was, you know, he was a big fan of my writing and so he he was a big fan of my writing and so he he was a big fan of my writing and so he became a founding member and uh then we became a founding member and uh then we became a founding member and uh then we ended up having a 2-hour video call and ended up having a 2-hour video call and ended up having a 2-hour video call and um yeah, he seemed like he genuinely um yeah, he seemed like he genuinely um yeah, he seemed like he genuinely seemed like a really nice guy and I seemed like a really nice guy and I seemed like a really nice guy and I just, you know, did not have any idea just, you know, did not have any idea just, you know, did not have any idea that he was planning this. I don't know that he was planning this. I don't know that he was planning this. I don't know if I don't know if he was planning this if I don't know if he was planning this if I don't know if he was planning this at the time that I spoke to him. But at the time that I spoke to him. But at the time that I spoke to him. But >> um but I wasn't I mean although I was >> um but I wasn't I mean although I was >> um but I wasn't I mean although I was shocked obviously because when somebody shocked obviously because when somebody shocked obviously because when somebody you know is in the news for something you know is in the news for something you know is in the news for something like that it's of course it's going to like that it's of course it's going to like that it's of course it's going to be shocking but at the same time it be shocking but at the same time it be shocking but at the same time it didn't surprise me from an intellectual didn't surprise me from an intellectual didn't surprise me from an intellectual point of view. It didn't surprise me point of view. It didn't surprise me point of view. It didn't surprise me because I've I've interacted with some because I've I've interacted with some because I've I've interacted with some extremely dangerous people. Um you know extremely dangerous people. Um you know extremely dangerous people. Um you know early in my sort of writing career I I early in my sort of writing career I I early in my sort of writing career I I hung around with Al Mahajarun just to hung around with Al Mahajarun just to hung around with Al Mahajarun just to try and find out who they are. Alham al- try and find out who they are. Alham al- try and find out who they are. Alham al- Majarun is the the UK's deadliest Majarun is the the UK's deadliest Majarun is the the UK's deadliest jihadist organization. They've been jihadist organization. They've been jihadist organization. They've been responsible for quite a lot of terrorist responsible for quite a lot of terrorist responsible for quite a lot of terrorist attacks on UK soil. And um I was sort of attacks on UK soil. And um I was sort of attacks on UK soil. And um I was sort of hanging out with these people for a hanging out with these people for a hanging out with these people for a while just to find out how their their while just to find out how their their while just to find out how their their minds work. And they were really really minds work. And they were really really minds work. And they were really really friendly people. They were cuz they friendly people. They were cuz they friendly people. They were cuz they thought I was Muslim um because I speak thought I was Muslim um because I speak thought I was Muslim um because I speak the same language as them. And so I was the same language as them. And so I was the same language as them. And so I was able to pretend I was one of them. And able to pretend I was one of them. And able to pretend I was one of them. And they were really really nice to me. you they were really really nice to me. you they were really really nice to me. you know, they would, you know, they would know, they would, you know, they would know, they would, you know, they would like if they were going to the shop, like if they were going to the shop, like if they were going to the shop, they would ask me if I wanted anything. they would ask me if I wanted anything. they would ask me if I wanted anything. They they were just kind of like really They they were just kind of like really They they were just kind of like really always concerned, you know, like uh and always concerned, you know, like uh and always concerned, you know, like uh and stuff and they barely knew me. And so, stuff and they barely knew me. And so, stuff and they barely knew me. And so, you know, I was kind of like, well, this you know, I was kind of like, well, this you know, I was kind of like, well, this was a bit strange. But then I'd later was a bit strange. But then I'd later was a bit strange. But then I'd later learn that one of them um went to Syria learn that one of them um went to Syria learn that one of them um went to Syria to become a bomb maker for ISIS. He blew to become a bomb maker for ISIS. He blew to become a bomb maker for ISIS. He blew his arm off. Um he another thing he did his arm off. Um he another thing he did his arm off. Um he another thing he did was actually before he did that he he was actually before he did that he he was actually before he did that he he stabbed a guy in the eye for apparently stabbed a guy in the eye for apparently stabbed a guy in the eye for apparently insulting the prophet Muhammad and then insulting the prophet Muhammad and then insulting the prophet Muhammad and then when he was on bail he was able to skip when he was on bail he was able to skip when he was on bail he was able to skip um uh he was able to skip bail he fled um uh he was able to skip bail he fled um uh he was able to skip bail he fled he went to Syria became a bomb maker uh he went to Syria became a bomb maker uh he went to Syria became a bomb maker uh blew his arm off and then he got killed blew his arm off and then he got killed blew his arm off and then he got killed in a strike um so you know this guy's in a strike um so you know this guy's in a strike um so you know this guy's name was Abu Rahin Aziz uh he also used name was Abu Rahin Aziz uh he also used name was Abu Rahin Aziz uh he also used to go by the name Abu al- Bratani to go by the name Abu al- Bratani to go by the name Abu al- Bratani and uh I think he was actually allowed and uh I think he was actually allowed and uh I think he was actually allowed to leave uh by MI6 so that they could to leave uh by MI6 so that they could to leave uh by MI6 so that they could track him and and then blow him up. But track him and and then blow him up. But track him and and then blow him up. But that's a whole other story. But that's a whole other story. But that's a whole other story. But basically, he was he was somebody who basically, he was he was somebody who basically, he was he was somebody who was really nice. was really nice. was really nice. >> The sort of guy that would say, "Hey, do >> The sort of guy that would say, "Hey, do >> The sort of guy that would say, "Hey, do you want a grenade bar? I'm going to the you want a grenade bar? I'm going to the you want a grenade bar? I'm going to the I'm going to the I'm going to the I'm going to the >> corner shop. Would you do you do you >> corner shop. Would you do you do you >> corner shop. Would you do you do you want some some crisps or some chocolate want some some crisps or some chocolate want some some crisps or some chocolate or something?" or something?" or something?" >> Yeah. I mean, they were just, you know, >> Yeah. I mean, they were just, you know, >> Yeah. I mean, they were just, you know, they were always looking out for each they were always looking out for each they were always looking out for each other and they had a lot of empathy for other and they had a lot of empathy for other and they had a lot of empathy for each other, you know, and for their each other, you know, and for their each other, you know, and for their fellow Muslims. They had a lot of fellow Muslims. They had a lot of fellow Muslims. They had a lot of empathy for them, empathy for them, empathy for them, >> but then they had no empathy for, for >> but then they had no empathy for, for >> but then they had no empathy for, for example, Jewish people. I witnessed a example, Jewish people. I witnessed a example, Jewish people. I witnessed a lot of anti-semitism when I was in uh in lot of anti-semitism when I was in uh in lot of anti-semitism when I was in uh in Bur Park in Luton, which is a just a Bur Park in Luton, which is a just a Bur Park in Luton, which is a just a Muslim um sort of enclave. Muslim um sort of enclave. Muslim um sort of enclave. Um they were very, you know, they were Um they were very, you know, they were Um they were very, you know, they were very anti-semitic. They they de they very anti-semitic. They they de they very anti-semitic. They they de they dehumanized uh Jews and especially dehumanized uh Jews and especially dehumanized uh Jews and especially Israelis, but they had all the empathy Israelis, but they had all the empathy Israelis, but they had all the empathy in the world for Muslims. And you know, in the world for Muslims. And you know, in the world for Muslims. And you know, you see this on the other side as well. you see this on the other side as well. you see this on the other side as well. You know, you see Israelis who have all You know, you see Israelis who have all You know, you see Israelis who have all the empathy in the world for Jews but the empathy in the world for Jews but the empathy in the world for Jews but don't have any for the Palestinians. So don't have any for the Palestinians. So don't have any for the Palestinians. So it's, you know, this is not like just it's, you know, this is not like just it's, you know, this is not like just one side. This is a common human trait. one side. This is a common human trait. one side. This is a common human trait. You see this everywhere. You see it You see this everywhere. You see it You see this everywhere. You see it amongst the left. You see it amongst the amongst the left. You see it amongst the amongst the left. You see it amongst the right. You even see it amongst right. You even see it amongst right. You even see it amongst centrists. So you know when people say, centrists. So you know when people say, centrists. So you know when people say, "Oh, we need more empathy." I think do "Oh, we need more empathy." I think do "Oh, we need more empathy." I think do we, you know, I think maybe the problem we, you know, I think maybe the problem we, you know, I think maybe the problem is is that we have sort of selective is is that we have sort of selective is is that we have sort of selective empathy and we maybe need to sort of empathy and we maybe need to sort of empathy and we maybe need to sort of understand that everybody's a human understand that everybody's a human understand that everybody's a human being, not just the people that we being, not just the people that we being, not just the people that we empathize with. empathize with. empathize with. >> Yeah. Uh, less tribalism, not more >> Yeah. Uh, less tribalism, not more >> Yeah. Uh, less tribalism, not more empathy. empathy. empathy. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Interesting. Uh, next one. Rumple >> Interesting. Uh, next one. Rumple >> Interesting. Uh, next one. Rumple stiltskin effect. To name a problem is stiltskin effect. To name a problem is stiltskin effect. To name a problem is to tame it. Diagnosing one's suffering to tame it. Diagnosing one's suffering to tame it. Diagnosing one's suffering makes it feel more meaningful and thus makes it feel more meaningful and thus makes it feel more meaningful and thus manageable. Even if the diagnosis is manageable. Even if the diagnosis is manageable. Even if the diagnosis is wrong, major depressive disorder is wrong, major depressive disorder is wrong, major depressive disorder is easier to live with than anonymous easier to live with than anonymous easier to live with than anonymous sadness. This is one reason for the sadness. This is one reason for the sadness. This is one reason for the recent surge in diagnoses of disorders recent surge in diagnoses of disorders recent surge in diagnoses of disorders like depression, autism, and ADHD. And I like depression, autism, and ADHD. And I like depression, autism, and ADHD. And I I pulled some data. Anxiety is now the I pulled some data. Anxiety is now the I pulled some data. Anxiety is now the most common mental health condition in most common mental health condition in most common mental health condition in the world. So, global burden of disease the world. So, global burden of disease the world. So, global burden of disease study, 359 million people, that's 4.4% study, 359 million people, that's 4.4% study, 359 million people, that's 4.4% have an anxiety disorder, 332 million, have an anxiety disorder, 332 million, have an anxiety disorder, 332 million, that's 4% have depressive disorders, 37 that's 4% have depressive disorders, 37 that's 4% have depressive disorders, 37 million bipolar, 23 million million bipolar, 23 million million bipolar, 23 million schizophrenia, and 16 million have schizophrenia, and 16 million have schizophrenia, and 16 million have eating disorders. That's I guess eating disorders. That's I guess eating disorders. That's I guess bringing the Ruple Stiltskin effect into bringing the Ruple Stiltskin effect into bringing the Ruple Stiltskin effect into real life. real life. real life. >> Yeah. So, so the Rumple Stillilskin >> Yeah. So, so the Rumple Stillilskin >> Yeah. So, so the Rumple Stillilskin effect takes its name from the fairy effect takes its name from the fairy effect takes its name from the fairy tale of Rumple Stillilskin, which most tale of Rumple Stillilskin, which most tale of Rumple Stillilskin, which most people should be familiar with from people should be familiar with from people should be familiar with from their childhood. I vaguely remember it, their childhood. I vaguely remember it, their childhood. I vaguely remember it, but what I remember is um that basically but what I remember is um that basically but what I remember is um that basically Rumple Stilskin is an imp who steals uh Rumple Stilskin is an imp who steals uh Rumple Stilskin is an imp who steals uh a woman's baby and in order to get it a woman's baby and in order to get it a woman's baby and in order to get it back, she has to find find out his name. back, she has to find find out his name. back, she has to find find out his name. And then one day, she hears him dancing And then one day, she hears him dancing And then one day, she hears him dancing around a fire singing about how, you around a fire singing about how, you around a fire singing about how, you know, nobody knows his name because his know, nobody knows his name because his know, nobody knows his name because his name is Robert Prumple Stoilskin. He's name is Robert Prumple Stoilskin. He's name is Robert Prumple Stoilskin. He's not very bright, but you know, after she not very bright, but you know, after she not very bright, but you know, after she finds out, she has power over him. So, finds out, she has power over him. So, finds out, she has power over him. So, it's the idea of when you name it's the idea of when you name it's the idea of when you name something, you have power over it. something, you have power over it. something, you have power over it. >> And there's a lot of kind of evidence of >> And there's a lot of kind of evidence of >> And there's a lot of kind of evidence of this because I've actually written about this because I've actually written about this because I've actually written about this in detail actually. Um, when you this in detail actually. Um, when you this in detail actually. Um, when you look at, for example, um, the ways in look at, for example, um, the ways in look at, for example, um, the ways in which people come to understand which people come to understand which people come to understand themselves, how they come to sort of themselves, how they come to sort of themselves, how they come to sort of understand their own identity is often understand their own identity is often understand their own identity is often through their ailments. And this can through their ailments. And this can through their ailments. And this can kind of bring them a kind of a sense kind of bring them a kind of a sense kind of bring them a kind of a sense that they're not in control of well at that they're not in control of well at that they're not in control of well at least it gives them more of a sense of least it gives them more of a sense of least it gives them more of a sense of of control over their problems. Um so of control over their problems. Um so of control over their problems. Um so you know for example if you are you know for example if you are you know for example if you are if you are shy right then you might if you are shy right then you might if you are shy right then you might consider that your shyness is a is a consider that your shyness is a is a consider that your shyness is a is a personality defect and this can be quite personality defect and this can be quite personality defect and this can be quite hard on people right so it can it can hard on people right so it can it can hard on people right so it can it can compound the anxiety that you already compound the anxiety that you already compound the anxiety that you already feel from your shyness by by making you feel from your shyness by by making you feel from your shyness by by making you believe that you're worthless or that believe that you're worthless or that believe that you're worthless or that you're you know that you're defected in you're you know that you're defected in you're you know that you're defected in some way because it's a personality some way because it's a personality some way because it's a personality trait that you can't really you can't trait that you can't really you can't trait that you can't really you can't really grasp. you don't know why you're really grasp. you don't know why you're really grasp. you don't know why you're shy, you know, you don't know why, and shy, you know, you don't know why, and shy, you know, you don't know why, and so you're just kind of you're stuck with so you're just kind of you're stuck with so you're just kind of you're stuck with it. it. it. >> But if somebody says to you, "Oh, no, >> But if somebody says to you, "Oh, no, >> But if somebody says to you, "Oh, no, no, no. You're not shy. You have social no, no. You're not shy. You have social no, no. You're not shy. You have social anxiety disorder." Then suddenly you anxiety disorder." Then suddenly you anxiety disorder." Then suddenly you have something that you can direct all have something that you can direct all have something that you can direct all of your sort of your frustrations of your sort of your frustrations of your sort of your frustrations towards. You know, you have something towards. You know, you have something towards. You know, you have something concrete now. You're like, "Oh, okay. So concrete now. You're like, "Oh, okay. So concrete now. You're like, "Oh, okay. So now you can come to understand a little now you can come to understand a little now you can come to understand a little bit more about yourself by learning more bit more about yourself by learning more bit more about yourself by learning more about social anxiety disorder." So it about social anxiety disorder." So it about social anxiety disorder." So it helps you to sort of come to terms with helps you to sort of come to terms with helps you to sort of come to terms with your problems. There are many incentives your problems. There are many incentives your problems. There are many incentives why you would want to label yourself in why you would want to label yourself in why you would want to label yourself in such a way. I mean one one of the other such a way. I mean one one of the other such a way. I mean one one of the other incentives is that it kind of takes incentives is that it kind of takes incentives is that it kind of takes responsibility from yourself to responsibility from yourself to responsibility from yourself to something that you can't really do much something that you can't really do much something that you can't really do much about. So something like you know your about. So something like you know your about. So something like you know your neurochemistry or you know your genetics neurochemistry or you know your genetics neurochemistry or you know your genetics or something like that. So you're like or something like that. So you're like or something like that. So you're like oh okay well I can't do anything about oh okay well I can't do anything about oh okay well I can't do anything about it because this is social anxiety it because this is social anxiety it because this is social anxiety disorder you know. But then at the same disorder you know. But then at the same disorder you know. But then at the same time this can also prevent you from time this can also prevent you from time this can also prevent you from getting that thing treated you know getting that thing treated you know getting that thing treated you know because then you can kind of become because then you can kind of become because then you can kind of become quite resigned in a sense. I think, you quite resigned in a sense. I think, you quite resigned in a sense. I think, you know, with with kind of labels like know, with with kind of labels like know, with with kind of labels like this, I think that they can be useful, this, I think that they can be useful, this, I think that they can be useful, right? But I think naming only helps if right? But I think naming only helps if right? But I think naming only helps if it leads to a tractable next step, you it leads to a tractable next step, you it leads to a tractable next step, you know, a real tangible next step. Because know, a real tangible next step. Because know, a real tangible next step. Because if the label replaces action, then it's if the label replaces action, then it's if the label replaces action, then it's just an excuse, right? And I think just an excuse, right? And I think just an excuse, right? And I think that's the problem that a lot of people that's the problem that a lot of people that's the problem that a lot of people are facing at the moment where they're are facing at the moment where they're are facing at the moment where they're using the label as an excuse rather than using the label as an excuse rather than using the label as an excuse rather than as a motivation for more action. Because as a motivation for more action. Because as a motivation for more action. Because if you have, let's go back to the if you have, let's go back to the if you have, let's go back to the example of social anxiety disorder, but example of social anxiety disorder, but example of social anxiety disorder, but there's two ways to cope with labeling there's two ways to cope with labeling there's two ways to cope with labeling your problem as social anxiety disorder. your problem as social anxiety disorder. your problem as social anxiety disorder. You can either resign yourself and say, You can either resign yourself and say, You can either resign yourself and say, well, you know, this is a something well, you know, this is a something well, you know, this is a something biological or psychological that I can't biological or psychological that I can't biological or psychological that I can't really do anything about, so let's just really do anything about, so let's just really do anything about, so let's just not bother trying to fix it. That's one not bother trying to fix it. That's one not bother trying to fix it. That's one path. The other path is to say, oh, path. The other path is to say, oh, path. The other path is to say, oh, okay, so what are the causes of social okay, so what are the causes of social okay, so what are the causes of social anxiety disorder? Uh what are the anxiety disorder? Uh what are the anxiety disorder? Uh what are the treatments for social anxiety disorder? treatments for social anxiety disorder? treatments for social anxiety disorder? And what's going to work best for me? And what's going to work best for me? And what's going to work best for me? Obviously, the latter is a much more Obviously, the latter is a much more Obviously, the latter is a much more healthier attitude, but I think that too healthier attitude, but I think that too healthier attitude, but I think that too many people what they're doing is many people what they're doing is many people what they're doing is they're using the label as an excuse to they're using the label as an excuse to they're using the label as an excuse to to prevent action. So, it actually has to prevent action. So, it actually has to prevent action. So, it actually has the opposite effect. It never they never the opposite effect. It never they never the opposite effect. It never they never fix it, you know. So, fix it, you know. So, fix it, you know. So, >> so while I'm not against labeling one's >> so while I'm not against labeling one's >> so while I'm not against labeling one's problems in such a way, I think that it problems in such a way, I think that it problems in such a way, I think that it should always serve to further action, should always serve to further action, should always serve to further action, you should actually it should be a step you should actually it should be a step you should actually it should be a step towards further action. If it's if it's towards further action. If it's if it's towards further action. If it's if it's a step towards inaction, then it's just a step towards inaction, then it's just a step towards inaction, then it's just an excuse basically. an excuse basically. an excuse basically. >> I saw a clip of >> I saw a clip of >> I saw a clip of uh or someone on some women's show uh or someone on some women's show uh or someone on some women's show talking about maybe it was Oprah talking talking about maybe it was Oprah talking talking about maybe it was Oprah talking about how obesity is a disease and ompic about how obesity is a disease and ompic about how obesity is a disease and ompic is the medicine to the disease and you is the medicine to the disease and you is the medicine to the disease and you wouldn't tell somebody that has diabetes wouldn't tell somebody that has diabetes wouldn't tell somebody that has diabetes that they shouldn't take their insulin that they shouldn't take their insulin that they shouldn't take their insulin because they have a disease and this is because they have a disease and this is because they have a disease and this is medicine for the disease and it it medicine for the disease and it it medicine for the disease and it it reminds me a little bit of concept creep reminds me a little bit of concept creep reminds me a little bit of concept creep that idea that you taught me about that idea that you taught me about that idea that you taught me about probably four years ago where um over probably four years ago where um over probably four years ago where um over I'm as racism goes down, numbers of I'm as racism goes down, numbers of I'm as racism goes down, numbers of racism, objective numbers of racism, racism, objective numbers of racism, racism, objective numbers of racism, which I know that you've done tons of which I know that you've done tons of which I know that you've done tons of research into this in your previous research into this in your previous research into this in your previous life, uh, objective racism goes down, life, uh, objective racism goes down, life, uh, objective racism goes down, but subjective racism goes up because but subjective racism goes up because but subjective racism goes up because the demand for racism outstrips its the demand for racism outstrips its the demand for racism outstrips its supply. And the only way that you can supply. And the only way that you can supply. And the only way that you can keep the volume of racism going so that keep the volume of racism going so that keep the volume of racism going so that people who comment on it have got people who comment on it have got people who comment on it have got something to talk about and campaign something to talk about and campaign something to talk about and campaign against is to broaden the definition of against is to broaden the definition of against is to broaden the definition of racism until it becomes so large that racism until it becomes so large that racism until it becomes so large that basically anything could be racism or basically anything could be racism or basically anything could be racism or anything could be transphobia or anything could be transphobia or anything could be transphobia or anything could be xenophobia or anything anything could be xenophobia or anything anything could be xenophobia or anything could be and the same thing goes for could be and the same thing goes for could be and the same thing goes for diseases, right? If you're diagnosing diseases, right? If you're diagnosing diseases, right? If you're diagnosing some issue, some issue, some issue, what you had a a passage from a book, what you had a a passage from a book, what you had a a passage from a book, maybe he was a clinical psychologist or maybe he was a clinical psychologist or maybe he was a clinical psychologist or something, and he was saying how many something, and he was saying how many something, and he was saying how many patients he'd ever seen in his entire patients he'd ever seen in his entire patients he'd ever seen in his entire career who'd come in and labeled career who'd come in and labeled career who'd come in and labeled themselves as just being sad with themselves as just being sad with themselves as just being sad with sadness. And it was three three patients sadness. And it was three three patients sadness. And it was three three patients across thousands had ever come in and across thousands had ever come in and across thousands had ever come in and said sadness. everybody else was said sadness. everybody else was said sadness. everybody else was depression or anxiety or schizophrenia depression or anxiety or schizophrenia depression or anxiety or schizophrenia or imposter syndrome or whatever. Even or imposter syndrome or whatever. Even or imposter syndrome or whatever. Even even imposter syndrome, right? The the even imposter syndrome, right? The the even imposter syndrome, right? The the fear that other people expect a standard fear that other people expect a standard fear that other people expect a standard of you which you can no longer meet. of you which you can no longer meet. of you which you can no longer meet. That I mean there are a million That I mean there are a million That I mean there are a million different terms for it. It could be different terms for it. It could be different terms for it. It could be uncertainty. Uh it it could be humility uncertainty. Uh it it could be humility uncertainty. Uh it it could be humility uh and humbleness. It could be low uh and humbleness. It could be low uh and humbleness. It could be low confidence. It could be low self-esteem. confidence. It could be low self-esteem. confidence. It could be low self-esteem. It could be low self-belief. Um but It could be low self-belief. Um but It could be low self-belief. Um but imposter syndrome to put the word imposter syndrome to put the word imposter syndrome to put the word syndrome after something uh and it's a syndrome after something uh and it's a syndrome after something uh and it's a cool term and I think it's a useful term cool term and I think it's a useful term cool term and I think it's a useful term to name something but the danger is of to name something but the danger is of to name something but the danger is of pathization and yeah you're right if you pathization and yeah you're right if you pathization and yeah you're right if you being able to put a name to imposttor being able to put a name to imposttor being able to put a name to imposttor syndrome and because of that you go I'm syndrome and because of that you go I'm syndrome and because of that you go I'm going to learn a little bit about what going to learn a little bit about what going to learn a little bit about what the research says to do with imposter the research says to do with imposter the research says to do with imposter syndrome. Well, actually, if I do some syndrome. Well, actually, if I do some syndrome. Well, actually, if I do some positive self- appraisal and I journal a positive self- appraisal and I journal a positive self- appraisal and I journal a little bit and I have a gratitude little bit and I have a gratitude little bit and I have a gratitude practice, it seems that I can overcome practice, it seems that I can overcome practice, it seems that I can overcome my imposttor syndrome. How wonderful. my imposttor syndrome. How wonderful. my imposttor syndrome. How wonderful. But if it is, oh, um, let's say we're in But if it is, oh, um, let's say we're in But if it is, oh, um, let's say we're in a different world that didn't have OMIC, a different world that didn't have OMIC, a different world that didn't have OMIC, uh, I have obesity, it's a disease, I uh, I have obesity, it's a disease, I uh, I have obesity, it's a disease, I can't lose weight. You have outsourced can't lose weight. You have outsourced can't lose weight. You have outsourced all of your agency now. So yeah, you all of your agency now. So yeah, you all of your agency now. So yeah, you have used the naming of it as a have used the naming of it as a have used the naming of it as a roadblock to action as opposed to a GPS roadblock to action as opposed to a GPS roadblock to action as opposed to a GPS that can help you find how you should that can help you find how you should that can help you find how you should act. act. act. >> Exactly. Yeah. And um yeah, so the >> Exactly. Yeah. And um yeah, so the >> Exactly. Yeah. And um yeah, so the passage that you're talking about is passage that you're talking about is passage that you're talking about is from Theodore Dal Rimple um who's a sort from Theodore Dal Rimple um who's a sort from Theodore Dal Rimple um who's a sort of like clinician uh come sort of writer of like clinician uh come sort of writer of like clinician uh come sort of writer and yeah, he he's sort of talked about and yeah, he he's sort of talked about and yeah, he he's sort of talked about this quite a bit. Um but I mean this quite a bit. Um but I mean this quite a bit. Um but I mean medicalization is a real problem. It's medicalization is a real problem. It's medicalization is a real problem. It's it's been a major problem since the it's been a major problem since the it's been a major problem since the 1970s. Um uh I think it's kind of like 1970s. Um uh I think it's kind of like 1970s. Um uh I think it's kind of like it's something that's sweeping across it's something that's sweeping across it's something that's sweeping across pretty much all sort of fields. Um and pretty much all sort of fields. Um and pretty much all sort of fields. Um and the reason is is because it's kind of the reason is is because it's kind of the reason is is because it's kind of like the alignment of perverse like the alignment of perverse like the alignment of perverse incentives. So you have patients, right? incentives. So you have patients, right? incentives. So you have patients, right? Patients who want easy answers to their Patients who want easy answers to their Patients who want easy answers to their problems. So they they are incentivized problems. So they they are incentivized problems. So they they are incentivized to pathize. Then you have the medical to pathize. Then you have the medical to pathize. Then you have the medical industry which is both financially and industry which is both financially and industry which is both financially and ideologically uh incentivized to sort of ideologically uh incentivized to sort of ideologically uh incentivized to sort of treat more and more things as medical treat more and more things as medical treat more and more things as medical problems uh for obvious reasons. Uh you problems uh for obvious reasons. Uh you problems uh for obvious reasons. Uh you know firstly they they make money if know firstly they they make money if know firstly they they make money if they are treating more things. So they they are treating more things. So they they are treating more things. So they have a a sort of incentive to sort of have a a sort of incentive to sort of have a a sort of incentive to sort of just creep creep their uh definitions just creep creep their uh definitions just creep creep their uh definitions outwards and then they have ideological outwards and then they have ideological outwards and then they have ideological um issues as well. And uh this is um issues as well. And uh this is um issues as well. And uh this is because obviously uh they are not because obviously uh they are not because obviously uh they are not looking for signs of uh health, they're looking for signs of uh health, they're looking for signs of uh health, they're looking for signs of disease. That's looking for signs of disease. That's looking for signs of disease. That's essentially what physicians do, right? essentially what physicians do, right? essentially what physicians do, right? They don't look for signs of health. They don't look for signs of health. They don't look for signs of health. They look for signs of disease. And They look for signs of disease. And They look for signs of disease. And because of that there's a certain sense because of that there's a certain sense because of that there's a certain sense of confirmation bias where there if of confirmation bias where there if of confirmation bias where there if you're looking for something you will you're looking for something you will you're looking for something you will tend to find it. And so it's very easy tend to find it. And so it's very easy tend to find it. And so it's very easy if you have that kind of mindset the if you have that kind of mindset the if you have that kind of mindset the mindset of a clinician or a doctor where mindset of a clinician or a doctor where mindset of a clinician or a doctor where you're looking for disease to see it you're looking for disease to see it you're looking for disease to see it even if it's not there. Uh and this is even if it's not there. Uh and this is even if it's not there. Uh and this is again this has been shown throughout again this has been shown throughout again this has been shown throughout throughout history. Uh in the sort of throughout history. Uh in the sort of throughout history. Uh in the sort of you know in the 1980s there was the you know in the 1980s there was the you know in the 1980s there was the whole thing about um multiple whole thing about um multiple whole thing about um multiple personality disorder. It's now known as personality disorder. It's now known as personality disorder. It's now known as dissociative identity disorder. And this dissociative identity disorder. And this dissociative identity disorder. And this was basically from like you know you can was basically from like you know you can was basically from like you know you can actually trace the development of this actually trace the development of this actually trace the development of this what is essentially like a kind of moral what is essentially like a kind of moral what is essentially like a kind of moral panic. I don't believe that uh multiple panic. I don't believe that uh multiple panic. I don't believe that uh multiple personality disorder or dissociative personality disorder or dissociative personality disorder or dissociative identity disorder are real things. I identity disorder are real things. I identity disorder are real things. I think that they're actually fictions. um think that they're actually fictions. um think that they're actually fictions. um because I've actually looked at the because I've actually looked at the because I've actually looked at the history and it really began in sort of history and it really began in sort of history and it really began in sort of like the late ' 90s '7s where I think like the late ' 90s '7s where I think like the late ' 90s '7s where I think there was one case of somebody claiming there was one case of somebody claiming there was one case of somebody claiming to have multiple personalities and this to have multiple personalities and this to have multiple personalities and this case went kind of viral as things might case went kind of viral as things might case went kind of viral as things might go viral in those days which was through go viral in those days which was through go viral in those days which was through newspapers and after this suddenly loads newspapers and after this suddenly loads newspapers and after this suddenly loads of people started coming forward saying of people started coming forward saying of people started coming forward saying that they also had this issue and what's that they also had this issue and what's that they also had this issue and what's interesting is that the number of um interesting is that the number of um interesting is that the number of um alternate identities that people claim alternate identities that people claim alternate identities that people claim to have increased over time so I think to have increased over time so I think to have increased over time so I think Like initially people averaged one Like initially people averaged one Like initially people averaged one alternative personality and then alternative personality and then alternative personality and then apparently by like the 1990s there was apparently by like the 1990s there was apparently by like the 1990s there was an average of about 17. It was an average of about 17. It was an average of about 17. It was absolutely ridiculous. Like just more absolutely ridiculous. Like just more absolutely ridiculous. Like just more people were just more and more they're people were just more and more they're people were just more and more they're having more and more alternate having more and more alternate having more and more alternate identities, identities, identities, >> you know, and and there's no real sort >> you know, and and there's no real sort >> you know, and and there's no real sort of like neurology behind it. It's just of like neurology behind it. It's just of like neurology behind it. It's just complete sort of nonsense. Um so you complete sort of nonsense. Um so you complete sort of nonsense. Um so you know this this to me is is a very good know this this to me is is a very good know this this to me is is a very good example of this whole path pathization example of this whole path pathization example of this whole path pathization sort of pandemic as I call it. uh where sort of pandemic as I call it. uh where sort of pandemic as I call it. uh where even it's not just that definitions even it's not just that definitions even it's not just that definitions increase, but whole diseases can be increase, but whole diseases can be increase, but whole diseases can be invented out of nothing invented out of nothing invented out of nothing >> simply because people want to put a name >> simply because people want to put a name >> simply because people want to put a name on their discomfort. on their discomfort. on their discomfort. >> Trust really is everything when it comes >> Trust really is everything when it comes >> Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements. 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Uh malingering between 20% and 40% of malingering between 20% and 40% of malingering between 20% and 40% of undergraduates at many elite American undergraduates at many elite American undergraduates at many elite American universities are now registered as universities are now registered as universities are now registered as disabled. In the UK, one quarter of the disabled. In the UK, one quarter of the disabled. In the UK, one quarter of the entire population now identifies as entire population now identifies as entire population now identifies as disabled. The rewards for claiming a disabled. The rewards for claiming a disabled. The rewards for claiming a disability now outweigh the stigma and disability now outweigh the stigma and disability now outweigh the stigma and those hurt most by all the pretenders those hurt most by all the pretenders those hurt most by all the pretenders are ultimately those with genuine are ultimately those with genuine are ultimately those with genuine disabilities. disabilities. disabilities. >> Yeah. So we're kind of living in a world >> Yeah. So we're kind of living in a world >> Yeah. So we're kind of living in a world now where I don't really see much stigma now where I don't really see much stigma now where I don't really see much stigma um towards disabled people at least not um towards disabled people at least not um towards disabled people at least not institutional stigma. Um I see a lot institutional stigma. Um I see a lot institutional stigma. Um I see a lot more benefits being given to people who more benefits being given to people who more benefits being given to people who claim to have disabilities. So in the claim to have disabilities. So in the claim to have disabilities. So in the example that I give um you know if you example that I give um you know if you example that I give um you know if you look at universities like elite look at universities like elite look at universities like elite universities such as Stanford, Harvard, universities such as Stanford, Harvard, universities such as Stanford, Harvard, Yale, they have like really high Yale, they have like really high Yale, they have like really high percentages of disabled students or at percentages of disabled students or at percentages of disabled students or at least students who claim to be disabled. least students who claim to be disabled. least students who claim to be disabled. >> And when you look at why this is, you >> And when you look at why this is, you >> And when you look at why this is, you see it's pretty obvious. Um if you if see it's pretty obvious. Um if you if see it's pretty obvious. Um if you if you are registered as disabled with one you are registered as disabled with one you are registered as disabled with one of these universities, then you get of these universities, then you get of these universities, then you get extra time on exams. That's just one of extra time on exams. That's just one of extra time on exams. That's just one of the benefits you get, but you also get the benefits you get, but you also get the benefits you get, but you also get other benefits as well, but that's the other benefits as well, but that's the other benefits as well, but that's the main benefit. U probably the most main benefit. U probably the most main benefit. U probably the most lucrative benefit. And so um you get a lucrative benefit. And so um you get a lucrative benefit. And so um you get a lot of rich kids. It's weird because lot of rich kids. It's weird because lot of rich kids. It's weird because when you look at the people who are when you look at the people who are when you look at the people who are primarily claiming disability, it tends primarily claiming disability, it tends primarily claiming disability, it tends to be the rich kids. Uh which is quite a to be the rich kids. Uh which is quite a to be the rich kids. Uh which is quite a quite an odd sort of correlation, right? quite an odd sort of correlation, right? quite an odd sort of correlation, right? And um you know and it seems to be And um you know and it seems to be And um you know and it seems to be because they are the ones who can pay because they are the ones who can pay because they are the ones who can pay doctors to essentially fabricate their doctors to essentially fabricate their doctors to essentially fabricate their disabilities. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You know so um yeah. So basically these >> You know so um yeah. So basically these >> You know so um yeah. So basically these kids now are getting extra time in exams kids now are getting extra time in exams kids now are getting extra time in exams because they're basically saying, "Oh, I because they're basically saying, "Oh, I because they're basically saying, "Oh, I have ad ADHD. I'm on the spectrum. You have ad ADHD. I'm on the spectrum. You have ad ADHD. I'm on the spectrum. You know, I have um some problem like I have know, I have um some problem like I have know, I have um some problem like I have constant pain in my in my left leg." It constant pain in my in my left leg." It constant pain in my in my left leg." It could be anything, right? They'll just could be anything, right? They'll just could be anything, right? They'll just basically say something, you know, I'm basically say something, you know, I'm basically say something, you know, I'm dyslexic or whatever. And so what dyslexic or whatever. And so what dyslexic or whatever. And so what happens is is that these kids basically happens is is that these kids basically happens is is that these kids basically get the extra time in the exams. And why get the extra time in the exams. And why get the extra time in the exams. And why this is bad, I mean it's obviously bad this is bad, I mean it's obviously bad this is bad, I mean it's obviously bad for being dishonest, but it's extra bad for being dishonest, but it's extra bad for being dishonest, but it's extra bad because it essentially makes it harder because it essentially makes it harder because it essentially makes it harder for people with genuine disabilities to for people with genuine disabilities to for people with genuine disabilities to be believed like when they have a be believed like when they have a be believed like when they have a disability because it is true that there disability because it is true that there disability because it is true that there are some people who have disabilities are some people who have disabilities are some people who have disabilities that are not obvious that require a that are not obvious that require a that are not obvious that require a physician to actually do a check on them physician to actually do a check on them physician to actually do a check on them um to find out. You know, I have an um to find out. You know, I have an um to find out. You know, I have an aunt, for example, who has um aunt, for example, who has um aunt, for example, who has um osteoporosis, osteoporosis, osteoporosis, and it's not it's not obvious watching and it's not it's not obvious watching and it's not it's not obvious watching her even walk that she has osteoporosis, her even walk that she has osteoporosis, her even walk that she has osteoporosis, but she but she actually does have it but she but she actually does have it but she but she actually does have it because it's all um you know, she from because it's all um you know, she from because it's all um you know, she from X-rays, you can see that her bones are X-rays, you can see that her bones are X-rays, you can see that her bones are basically crumbling. basically crumbling. basically crumbling. >> And so, um, you know, it's it's it's >> And so, um, you know, it's it's it's >> And so, um, you know, it's it's it's it's actually quite common where it's actually quite common where it's actually quite common where somebody can have a disability, but it's somebody can have a disability, but it's somebody can have a disability, but it's not obvious. And so, if you have like not obvious. And so, if you have like not obvious. And so, if you have like between 20% and 40% of everybody between 20% and 40% of everybody between 20% and 40% of everybody claiming to have a disability, then the claiming to have a disability, then the claiming to have a disability, then the people who actually have a disability people who actually have a disability people who actually have a disability get less attention. and they get they're get less attention. and they get they're get less attention. and they get they're not believed as much. They're treated not believed as much. They're treated not believed as much. They're treated with skepticism. So, not only do we are with skepticism. So, not only do we are with skepticism. So, not only do we are we creating a victimhood culture, but we creating a victimhood culture, but we creating a victimhood culture, but we're also creating a cynical culture we're also creating a cynical culture we're also creating a cynical culture where the people who genuinely need help where the people who genuinely need help where the people who genuinely need help won't be believed. So, yeah, it's a won't be believed. So, yeah, it's a won't be believed. So, yeah, it's a pretty bad way. pretty bad way. pretty bad way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Slovaganda. More online articles are now >> Slovaganda. More online articles are now >> Slovaganda. More online articles are now written by AI than by humans, and written by AI than by humans, and written by AI than by humans, and research is increasingly finding that AI research is increasingly finding that AI research is increasingly finding that AI is better at persuading people than is better at persuading people than is better at persuading people than people are. Who wins in a world of people are. Who wins in a world of people are. Who wins in a world of unlimited propaganda? Not those with the unlimited propaganda? Not those with the unlimited propaganda? Not those with the best arguments, but those with the most best arguments, but those with the most best arguments, but those with the most slop. This is similar to Mollock's slop. This is similar to Mollock's slop. This is similar to Mollock's bargain. When LLMs compete for votes or bargain. When LLMs compete for votes or bargain. When LLMs compete for votes or social media likes, they push lies and social media likes, they push lies and social media likes, they push lies and rage bait to win, even when explicitly rage bait to win, even when explicitly rage bait to win, even when explicitly instructed to stay grounded and honest. instructed to stay grounded and honest. instructed to stay grounded and honest. If chatbots conclude that getting our If chatbots conclude that getting our If chatbots conclude that getting our attention requires lying to us, is the attention requires lying to us, is the attention requires lying to us, is the AI misaligned or are we? AI misaligned or are we? AI misaligned or are we? >> Yeah. So, you know, there's been a lot >> Yeah. So, you know, there's been a lot >> Yeah. So, you know, there's been a lot of talk about the kind of AIdriven of talk about the kind of AIdriven of talk about the kind of AIdriven disinformation age where basically disinformation age where basically disinformation age where basically nothing will be nobody will be able to nothing will be nobody will be able to nothing will be nobody will be able to know what's true and everybody's going know what's true and everybody's going know what's true and everybody's going to believe lies and all this kind of to believe lies and all this kind of to believe lies and all this kind of stuff. And I mean, yeah, that that's stuff. And I mean, yeah, that that's stuff. And I mean, yeah, that that's probably a part of it. I don't think probably a part of it. I don't think probably a part of it. I don't think it's like as as as serious as people are it's like as as as serious as people are it's like as as as serious as people are claiming. I don't think the actual the claiming. I don't think the actual the claiming. I don't think the actual the serious part of this is that people are serious part of this is that people are serious part of this is that people are going to believe lies because people going to believe lies because people going to believe lies because people have always believed lies. you know, um, have always believed lies. you know, um, have always believed lies. you know, um, if you go back, you know, throughout any if you go back, you know, throughout any if you go back, you know, throughout any any point in history, there were a lot any point in history, there were a lot any point in history, there were a lot of sort of consensus beliefs that were of sort of consensus beliefs that were of sort of consensus beliefs that were ultimately proved to be wrong. Um, so I ultimately proved to be wrong. Um, so I ultimately proved to be wrong. Um, so I don't actually think that people don't actually think that people don't actually think that people believing falsehoods is is necessarily a believing falsehoods is is necessarily a believing falsehoods is is necessarily a bad thing. I think most of what people bad thing. I think most of what people bad thing. I think most of what people believe as opposed to what they know is believe as opposed to what they know is believe as opposed to what they know is is false anyway, right? I think that the is false anyway, right? I think that the is false anyway, right? I think that the bigger problem is not uh the dissolution bigger problem is not uh the dissolution bigger problem is not uh the dissolution of truth, but the dissolution of trust. of truth, but the dissolution of trust. of truth, but the dissolution of trust. I think that's far more important I think that's far more important I think that's far more important because a society can survive without because a society can survive without because a society can survive without truth. um pretty much most of the time, truth. um pretty much most of the time, truth. um pretty much most of the time, you know, as long as you have very basic you know, as long as you have very basic you know, as long as you have very basic truths like knowing that gravity is a truths like knowing that gravity is a truths like knowing that gravity is a thing, for example. You know, as long as thing, for example. You know, as long as thing, for example. You know, as long as you have basic truths, society can you have basic truths, society can you have basic truths, society can survive. You don't need complex truths survive. You don't need complex truths survive. You don't need complex truths for a society to survive. And history for a society to survive. And history for a society to survive. And history shows us that it's demonstrated that shows us that it's demonstrated that shows us that it's demonstrated that beyond beyond reasonable doubt. But beyond beyond reasonable doubt. But beyond beyond reasonable doubt. But trust is a whole different ballgame. Uh, trust is a whole different ballgame. Uh, trust is a whole different ballgame. Uh, a society can't survive without trust a society can't survive without trust a society can't survive without trust because pretty much everything depends because pretty much everything depends because pretty much everything depends on um being able to trust other people on um being able to trust other people on um being able to trust other people in society. If you can't, you know, if in society. If you can't, you know, if in society. If you can't, you know, if you can't trust other people, then you you can't trust other people, then you you can't trust other people, then you don't have a society. It's like don't have a society. It's like don't have a society. It's like literally the glue that binds a society literally the glue that binds a society literally the glue that binds a society together. And what what I think is a together. And what what I think is a together. And what what I think is a problem is not that people will believe problem is not that people will believe problem is not that people will believe falsehoods. I think the problem is is falsehoods. I think the problem is is falsehoods. I think the problem is is that the cost of determining what's that the cost of determining what's that the cost of determining what's actually true is going to become so actually true is going to become so actually true is going to become so high. It's going to require so much high. It's going to require so much high. It's going to require so much effort that people are essentially going effort that people are essentially going effort that people are essentially going to give up really valuing truth to give up really valuing truth to give up really valuing truth >> as a principle. >> as a principle. >> as a principle. >> This is this is one of my favorites from >> This is this is one of my favorites from >> This is this is one of my favorites from you. Reality apathy. When the sheer you. Reality apathy. When the sheer you. Reality apathy. When the sheer volume of conflicting information makes volume of conflicting information makes volume of conflicting information makes the effort of finding the truth costlier the effort of finding the truth costlier the effort of finding the truth costlier than the value of knowing it, people than the value of knowing it, people than the value of knowing it, people give up trying to be accurate and give up trying to be accurate and give up trying to be accurate and instead choose whatever [ __ ] stinks instead choose whatever [ __ ] stinks instead choose whatever [ __ ] stinks least. Slop doesn't just threaten the least. Slop doesn't just threaten the least. Slop doesn't just threaten the truth, but the very worth of truth. And truth, but the very worth of truth. And truth, but the very worth of truth. And it's this um this sort of overwhelm. the it's this um this sort of overwhelm. the it's this um this sort of overwhelm. the the the goal of propaganda isn't to make the the goal of propaganda isn't to make the the goal of propaganda isn't to make you believe any one narrative. Sometimes you believe any one narrative. Sometimes you believe any one narrative. Sometimes it's simply to make you more pliable at it's simply to make you more pliable at it's simply to make you more pliable at not wanting to believe anything. Ah, I I not wanting to believe anything. Ah, I I not wanting to believe anything. Ah, I I just I earlier on today in one of the just I earlier on today in one of the just I earlier on today in one of the old group chats from the guys that used old group chats from the guys that used old group chats from the guys that used to work for me in Newcastle, one of the to work for me in Newcastle, one of the to work for me in Newcastle, one of the guys said, um, is anybody else's guys said, um, is anybody else's guys said, um, is anybody else's algorithm getting peppered with all of algorithm getting peppered with all of algorithm getting peppered with all of this Epstein stuff at the moment? These this Epstein stuff at the moment? These this Epstein stuff at the moment? These are bluecollar dudes from the northeast are bluecollar dudes from the northeast are bluecollar dudes from the northeast of the UK. Maybe they're working in of the UK. Maybe they're working in of the UK. Maybe they're working in London or something. This is not Epstein London or something. This is not Epstein London or something. This is not Epstein is not supposed to sort of cross their is not supposed to sort of cross their is not supposed to sort of cross their their threshold and it's obviously hit a their threshold and it's obviously hit a their threshold and it's obviously hit a limit at a volume where they think holy limit at a volume where they think holy limit at a volume where they think holy [ __ ] like this is so much Epstein stuff. [ __ ] like this is so much Epstein stuff. [ __ ] like this is so much Epstein stuff. Um I've just seen I'm now convinced that Um I've just seen I'm now convinced that Um I've just seen I'm now convinced that he's playing Fortnite in [ __ ] Israel. he's playing Fortnite in [ __ ] Israel. he's playing Fortnite in [ __ ] Israel. I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't know what to believe anymore. And that's that's literally reality And that's that's literally reality And that's that's literally reality apathy. And I it was so funny to see apathy. And I it was so funny to see apathy. And I it was so funny to see that message come in and think that it that message come in and think that it that message come in and think that it this is the overwhelm of information and this is the overwhelm of information and this is the overwhelm of information and conflicting points of view going in conflicting points of view going in conflicting points of view going in opposite directions literally happening opposite directions literally happening opposite directions literally happening in front of my eyes. in front of my eyes. in front of my eyes. >> Yeah. And I think one of the challenges >> Yeah. And I think one of the challenges >> Yeah. And I think one of the challenges going forward is going to be trying to going forward is going to be trying to going forward is going to be trying to convince people that it's actually worth convince people that it's actually worth convince people that it's actually worth pursuing the truth. I think more than pursuing the truth. I think more than pursuing the truth. I think more than actually convincing them of any any actually convincing them of any any actually convincing them of any any particular truth, just convincing them particular truth, just convincing them particular truth, just convincing them of the value of truth is going to be of the value of truth is going to be of the value of truth is going to be extremely important because we're extremely important because we're extremely important because we're essentially entering a world of virtual essentially entering a world of virtual essentially entering a world of virtual reality. You know, you you can reality. You know, you you can reality. You know, you you can essentially create your own reality now. essentially create your own reality now. essentially create your own reality now. You can do it both figuratively through You can do it both figuratively through You can do it both figuratively through social media echo chambers, but you can social media echo chambers, but you can social media echo chambers, but you can also do it literally by essentially just also do it literally by essentially just also do it literally by essentially just sequestering yourself in your bedroom sequestering yourself in your bedroom sequestering yourself in your bedroom and living your entire life um through and living your entire life um through and living your entire life um through your you know your headset or your your your you know your headset or your your your you know your headset or your your your laptop screen or whatever and just your laptop screen or whatever and just your laptop screen or whatever and just using AI to just generate whatever you using AI to just generate whatever you using AI to just generate whatever you want uh whatever you know reality you want uh whatever you know reality you want uh whatever you know reality you want. Um this is not far away. I mean, want. Um this is not far away. I mean, want. Um this is not far away. I mean, you know, there's recently been um I you know, there's recently been um I you know, there's recently been um I think it's Sea Dance. This new uh think it's Sea Dance. This new uh think it's Sea Dance. This new uh Chinese um sort of video generation tool Chinese um sort of video generation tool Chinese um sort of video generation tool which is insane. Sea dance. Yeah, I which is insane. Sea dance. Yeah, I which is insane. Sea dance. Yeah, I think it's called Sea Dance. Yeah. think it's called Sea Dance. Yeah. think it's called Sea Dance. Yeah. >> Is that like Sora? It's Chinese Sora. >> Is that like Sora? It's Chinese Sora. >> Is that like Sora? It's Chinese Sora. >> Much much much better than Sora. It It's >> Much much much better than Sora. It It's >> Much much much better than Sora. It It's like a whole generation ahead of Sora. like a whole generation ahead of Sora. like a whole generation ahead of Sora. Ahead of VO3, ahead of all the best uh Ahead of VO3, ahead of all the best uh Ahead of VO3, ahead of all the best uh frontier models in the west. This is frontier models in the west. This is frontier models in the west. This is something completely wild. I think China something completely wild. I think China something completely wild. I think China has got an edge in video generation has got an edge in video generation has got an edge in video generation because they don't have copyright laws because they don't have copyright laws because they don't have copyright laws or at least they don't really care about or at least they don't really care about or at least they don't really care about copyright very much whereas the west has copyright very much whereas the west has copyright very much whereas the west has an advantage in textbased uh generative an advantage in textbased uh generative an advantage in textbased uh generative AI because they don't have censorship AI because they don't have censorship AI because they don't have censorship laws. So um you know there's this laws. So um you know there's this laws. So um you know there's this trade-off trade-off trade-off >> whichever market whichever market has >> whichever market whichever market has >> whichever market whichever market has the poorest protections will get the the poorest protections will get the the poorest protections will get the most progress. most progress. most progress. >> Yeah, basically. Yeah, because that >> Yeah, basically. Yeah, because that >> Yeah, basically. Yeah, because that seems to me to be the bottleneck. seems to me to be the bottleneck. seems to me to be the bottleneck. >> Oh, funny. Yeah. So you can you can make >> Oh, funny. Yeah. So you can you can make >> Oh, funny. Yeah. So you can you can make Oh, is that who made I saw a pretty Oh, is that who made I saw a pretty Oh, is that who made I saw a pretty famous famous famous >> uh uh Dragon Ball Z recreation 3D? Have >> uh uh Dragon Ball Z recreation 3D? Have >> uh uh Dragon Ball Z recreation 3D? Have you seen this? Is that made from that? you seen this? Is that made from that? you seen this? Is that made from that? Yeah. Okay, I know exactly what you Yeah. Okay, I know exactly what you Yeah. Okay, I know exactly what you mean. And I saw it last night and I mean. And I saw it last night and I mean. And I saw it last night and I remember thinking, "Fucking hell, that's remember thinking, "Fucking hell, that's remember thinking, "Fucking hell, that's really good." And they're still trying really good." And they're still trying really good." And they're still trying to use um cell shading to make it It's to use um cell shading to make it It's to use um cell shading to make it It's not supposed to look like people, it's not supposed to look like people, it's not supposed to look like people, it's supposed to look like cartoon people, supposed to look like cartoon people, supposed to look like cartoon people, but it's in 3D. And it's I mean it's but it's in 3D. And it's I mean it's but it's in 3D. And it's I mean it's significantly better than Dragon Ball Z significantly better than Dragon Ball Z significantly better than Dragon Ball Z from a a design standpoint. So yeah, I from a a design standpoint. So yeah, I from a a design standpoint. So yeah, I wondered what that was. Is that Sora? wondered what that was. Is that Sora? wondered what that was. Is that Sora? That seems really good for Is that That seems really good for Is that That seems really good for Is that [ __ ] Nano Banana 5? What the [ __ ] is [ __ ] Nano Banana 5? What the [ __ ] is [ __ ] Nano Banana 5? What the [ __ ] is going on? But it was this new thing that going on? But it was this new thing that going on? But it was this new thing that you're talking about. you're talking about. you're talking about. >> Yeah, I think it's from Bite Dance, >> Yeah, I think it's from Bite Dance, >> Yeah, I think it's from Bite Dance, which is the company that created Tik which is the company that created Tik which is the company that created Tik Tok and um Tok and um Tok and um >> Cap Cut. >> Cap Cut. >> Cap Cut. >> Yeah, basically Cap Cut and all the rest >> Yeah, basically Cap Cut and all the rest >> Yeah, basically Cap Cut and all the rest of that stuff. Yeah. Um but it's wild. of that stuff. Yeah. Um but it's wild. of that stuff. Yeah. Um but it's wild. So we're basically entering this kind of So we're basically entering this kind of So we're basically entering this kind of virtual reality age where people can virtual reality age where people can virtual reality age where people can essentially create their own reality. essentially create their own reality. essentially create their own reality. You know, whatever they want to believe, You know, whatever they want to believe, You know, whatever they want to believe, they can make it at least seem true they can make it at least seem true they can make it at least seem true enough enough enough >> by curating, you know, curating >> by curating, you know, curating >> by curating, you know, curating information online. So yeah, we need to information online. So yeah, we need to information online. So yeah, we need to teach people to actually value truth as teach people to actually value truth as teach people to actually value truth as a species if if if we want to actually a species if if if we want to actually a species if if if we want to actually progress. progress. progress. >> What was that line around >> What was that line around >> What was that line around dead internet theory? people being dead internet theory? people being dead internet theory? people being worried that all of the content on the worried that all of the content on the worried that all of the content on the internet is just going to be made by internet is just going to be made by internet is just going to be made by robots. We're worried about the fact robots. We're worried about the fact robots. We're worried about the fact that unthinking that unthinking that unthinking replicative automatons are going to be replicative automatons are going to be replicative automatons are going to be producing most of the information that producing most of the information that producing most of the information that we see online. we see online. we see online. The future that we fear will come to The future that we fear will come to The future that we fear will come to pass has already come to pass because pass has already come to pass because pass has already come to pass because most people blindly just repost what most people blindly just repost what most people blindly just repost what they see. In any case, like we're they see. In any case, like we're they see. In any case, like we're worried about the fact that these worried about the fact that these worried about the fact that these disembodied [ __ ] AIs are are posting disembodied [ __ ] AIs are are posting disembodied [ __ ] AIs are are posting stuff. Meanwhile, stuff. Meanwhile, stuff. Meanwhile, someone that doesn't read an article or someone that doesn't read an article or someone that doesn't read an article or watch a video outside of the first 15 watch a video outside of the first 15 watch a video outside of the first 15 seconds decides to spew their halfbaked seconds decides to spew their halfbaked seconds decides to spew their halfbaked opinion, which isn't theirs. You know, opinion, which isn't theirs. You know, opinion, which isn't theirs. You know, they're being marionetted by the few they're being marionetted by the few they're being marionetted by the few original thinkers that came before them original thinkers that came before them original thinkers that came before them and and now just saying the nearest and and now just saying the nearest and and now just saying the nearest close uh what was it? um close uh what was it? um close uh what was it? um uh the new hill to die on that they've uh the new hill to die on that they've uh the new hill to die on that they've just decided they plant this flag and just decided they plant this flag and just decided they plant this flag and like this 5 minute old opinion is that like this 5 minute old opinion is that like this 5 minute old opinion is that this the new thing that they're going to this the new thing that they're going to this the new thing that they're going to wrap their entire identity around. Uh wrap their entire identity around. Uh wrap their entire identity around. Uh the you're already doing the dead the you're already doing the dead the you're already doing the dead internet theory has been here since internet theory has been here since internet theory has been here since social media was here. People were social media was here. People were social media was here. People were unthinking in the way that they reposted unthinking in the way that they reposted unthinking in the way that they reposted and commented on stuff. They weren't and commented on stuff. They weren't and commented on stuff. They weren't being subtle and nuanced. And now all being subtle and nuanced. And now all being subtle and nuanced. And now all that you're worried about, it's this. that you're worried about, it's this. that you're worried about, it's this. It's the exact same as people being It's the exact same as people being It's the exact same as people being worried about self-driving cars that are worried about self-driving cars that are worried about self-driving cars that are significantly safer than humans are, but significantly safer than humans are, but significantly safer than humans are, but they've got a combination of they've got a combination of they've got a combination of naturalistic fallacy and some weird naturalistic fallacy and some weird naturalistic fallacy and some weird preference that they'd rather die by a preference that they'd rather die by a preference that they'd rather die by a human driver than be saved by a robot. human driver than be saved by a robot. human driver than be saved by a robot. And it's kind of the same. Well, you And it's kind of the same. Well, you And it's kind of the same. Well, you know, I'd rather be lied to by an know, I'd rather be lied to by an know, I'd rather be lied to by an unthinking human idiot than convinced by unthinking human idiot than convinced by unthinking human idiot than convinced by an unthinking robot super genius. an unthinking robot super genius. an unthinking robot super genius. >> Yeah. I mean, few people are willing to >> Yeah. I mean, few people are willing to >> Yeah. I mean, few people are willing to admit the similarities between humans admit the similarities between humans admit the similarities between humans and chat bots. Um, you know, like and chat bots. Um, you know, like and chat bots. Um, you know, like there's a lot of people saying, "Oh, you there's a lot of people saying, "Oh, you there's a lot of people saying, "Oh, you know, well, uh, uh, you know, these know, well, uh, uh, you know, these know, well, uh, uh, you know, these chatbots aren't intelligent. They're chatbots aren't intelligent. They're chatbots aren't intelligent. They're just predicting the next token." But just predicting the next token." But just predicting the next token." But then you consider, you know, what are then you consider, you know, what are then you consider, you know, what are humans doing? You know, a lot of the humans doing? You know, a lot of the humans doing? You know, a lot of the time they're just predicting the next time they're just predicting the next time they're just predicting the next token, too. Uh, they're just, you know, token, too. Uh, they're just, you know, token, too. Uh, they're just, you know, they're just regurgitating, you know, they're just regurgitating, you know, they're just regurgitating, you know, what they've heard and um, kind of just what they've heard and um, kind of just what they've heard and um, kind of just developing explanations about the world developing explanations about the world developing explanations about the world based on that. You know, going by vibes based on that. You know, going by vibes based on that. You know, going by vibes is probably how people would describe it is probably how people would describe it is probably how people would describe it today. today. today. So, you know, I think yeah, one of the So, you know, I think yeah, one of the So, you know, I think yeah, one of the good things about sort of the whole AI good things about sort of the whole AI good things about sort of the whole AI age is it's really allowed us to age is it's really allowed us to age is it's really allowed us to understand that a lot of what we thought understand that a lot of what we thought understand that a lot of what we thought were unique to humans are actually just were unique to humans are actually just were unique to humans are actually just basic algorithms. You know, just ways basic algorithms. You know, just ways basic algorithms. You know, just ways that we organize information, the way that we organize information, the way that we organize information, the way that we generate beliefs. Um, a lot of that we generate beliefs. Um, a lot of that we generate beliefs. Um, a lot of it is, you know, people don't really it is, you know, people don't really it is, you know, people don't really understand what they're saying. They're understand what they're saying. They're understand what they're saying. They're just kind of regurgitating what they just kind of regurgitating what they just kind of regurgitating what they heard. heard. heard. >> And that is essentially what a chatbot >> And that is essentially what a chatbot >> And that is essentially what a chatbot does in a sense. And so it helps us to does in a sense. And so it helps us to does in a sense. And so it helps us to really understand how automated so much really understand how automated so much really understand how automated so much of our belief formation is. U it's why of our belief formation is. U it's why of our belief formation is. U it's why we need to you know have more agency and we need to you know have more agency and we need to you know have more agency and actually if we want to be actually if we want to be actually if we want to be indistinguishable if we want to be indistinguishable if we want to be indistinguishable if we want to be distinguishable from from chat bots then distinguishable from from chat bots then distinguishable from from chat bots then we need to actually sort of we need to we need to actually sort of we need to we need to actually sort of we need to strengthen the one thing that we have strengthen the one thing that we have strengthen the one thing that we have that that chat bots can't replace and that that chat bots can't replace and that that chat bots can't replace and that's agency. that's agency. that's agency. to the ability to actually act to the ability to actually act to the ability to actually act independently and to actually think independently and to actually think independently and to actually think about what you're doing rather than about what you're doing rather than about what you're doing rather than simply reacting to your circumstances. simply reacting to your circumstances. simply reacting to your circumstances. >> 1% rule. In online communities, around >> 1% rule. In online communities, around >> 1% rule. In online communities, around 1% of users produce almost all of the 1% of users produce almost all of the 1% of users produce almost all of the content. As such, what you see online is content. As such, what you see online is content. As such, what you see online is not representative of humanity, but not representative of humanity, but not representative of humanity, but merely a loud, obsessive, and often merely a loud, obsessive, and often merely a loud, obsessive, and often narcissistic, psychopathic, and low IQ narcissistic, psychopathic, and low IQ narcissistic, psychopathic, and low IQ minority. Social media is literally a minority. Social media is literally a minority. Social media is literally a freak show and consuming only content freak show and consuming only content freak show and consuming only content that reinforces your views is that reinforces your views is that reinforces your views is intellectual incest producing beliefs intellectual incest producing beliefs intellectual incest producing beliefs that are increasingly frail and that are increasingly frail and that are increasingly frail and deformed. deformed. deformed. >> Yeah. So, you know, when I go online on >> Yeah. So, you know, when I go online on >> Yeah. So, you know, when I go online on social media, I often can sometimes well social media, I often can sometimes well social media, I often can sometimes well I sometimes feel disheartened. You know, I sometimes feel disheartened. You know, I sometimes feel disheartened. You know, it can I think we've we've discussed it can I think we've we've discussed it can I think we've we've discussed this before, uh, where, you know, you go this before, uh, where, you know, you go this before, uh, where, you know, you go on social media and you just see just on social media and you just see just on social media and you just see just loads of just crap on your timeline and loads of just crap on your timeline and loads of just crap on your timeline and just the the most ill-informed opinions just the the most ill-informed opinions just the the most ill-informed opinions and, you know, people getting outraged and, you know, people getting outraged and, you know, people getting outraged over just nonsense and it kind of can over just nonsense and it kind of can over just nonsense and it kind of can like destroy your faith in in the human like destroy your faith in in the human like destroy your faith in in the human race, you know. I think um Sam Harris, I race, you know. I think um Sam Harris, I race, you know. I think um Sam Harris, I think the reason why he left Twitter, I think the reason why he left Twitter, I think the reason why he left Twitter, I think he did describe it that way. He think he did describe it that way. He think he did describe it that way. He said that, you know, when he was on said that, you know, when he was on said that, you know, when he was on social media, it made him hate humanity, social media, it made him hate humanity, social media, it made him hate humanity, you know, and I could sympathize with you know, and I could sympathize with you know, and I could sympathize with that. referred to it as the most that. referred to it as the most that. referred to it as the most pathological type of telepathy you can pathological type of telepathy you can pathological type of telepathy you can imagine imagine imagine >> where all he could hear were the worst >> where all he could hear were the worst >> where all he could hear were the worst of everybody else's thoughts. of everybody else's thoughts. of everybody else's thoughts. >> Yeah. And you know and sometimes you >> Yeah. And you know and sometimes you >> Yeah. And you know and sometimes you know it can sort of just really know it can sort of just really know it can sort of just really dishearten you. I I have a few friends dishearten you. I I have a few friends dishearten you. I I have a few friends who you know on social media and they who you know on social media and they who you know on social media and they they sometimes have long breaks because they sometimes have long breaks because they sometimes have long breaks because it just completely just just really it just completely just just really it just completely just just really demoralizes them when they think oh this demoralizes them when they think oh this demoralizes them when they think oh this is what humanity is you know all this is what humanity is you know all this is what humanity is you know all this noise like all this completely noise like all this completely noise like all this completely irrational noise just being thrown out irrational noise just being thrown out irrational noise just being thrown out everywhere. Um, but I think it's always everywhere. Um, but I think it's always everywhere. Um, but I think it's always helpful to remember that what you're helpful to remember that what you're helpful to remember that what you're seeing online is not actually seeing online is not actually seeing online is not actually representative of humanity. It's representative of humanity. It's representative of humanity. It's representative of the loudest and often representative of the loudest and often representative of the loudest and often the most obnoxious humans on the planet. the most obnoxious humans on the planet. the most obnoxious humans on the planet. And there's a lot of research to support And there's a lot of research to support And there's a lot of research to support this. You know, there's pretty this. You know, there's pretty this. You know, there's pretty consistent findings which which find consistent findings which which find consistent findings which which find that people who are high in um in that people who are high in um in that people who are high in um in certain dark tetrd traits, particularly certain dark tetrd traits, particularly certain dark tetrd traits, particularly in narcissism and psychopathy, uh tend in narcissism and psychopathy, uh tend in narcissism and psychopathy, uh tend to use social media more, but also they to use social media more, but also they to use social media more, but also they tend to engage in online political tend to engage in online political tend to engage in online political participation a lot more as well. They participation a lot more as well. They participation a lot more as well. They tend to engage in in sort of online tend to engage in in sort of online tend to engage in in sort of online debates and things like that a lot more. debates and things like that a lot more. debates and things like that a lot more. Um and then you also have um people who Um and then you also have um people who Um and then you also have um people who are essentially cluster B, you know, are essentially cluster B, you know, are essentially cluster B, you know, people who are really dramatic. Again, people who are really dramatic. Again, people who are really dramatic. Again, narcissism comes up here. Um, also narcissism comes up here. Um, also narcissism comes up here. Um, also histrionic personality disorder histrionic personality disorder histrionic personality disorder naturally, you know, the people that are naturally, you know, the people that are naturally, you know, the people that are >> histrionic personality disorder. >> histrionic personality disorder. >> histrionic personality disorder. >> So, histrionic is basically when you're >> So, histrionic is basically when you're >> So, histrionic is basically when you're a drama queen. Basically, it's when you a drama queen. Basically, it's when you a drama queen. Basically, it's when you you're attract, you know, you just want you're attract, you know, you just want you're attract, you know, you just want to to draw attention to yourself by to to draw attention to yourself by to to draw attention to yourself by playing the victim um or by, you know, playing the victim um or by, you know, playing the victim um or by, you know, just catastrophizing just catastrophizing just catastrophizing uh just making out like everything's uh just making out like everything's uh just making out like everything's worse than it actually is. Just a worse than it actually is. Just a worse than it actually is. Just a theatrical behavior basically. And um so theatrical behavior basically. And um so theatrical behavior basically. And um so you naturally this is a good fit for you naturally this is a good fit for you naturally this is a good fit for social media this kind of behavior you social media this kind of behavior you social media this kind of behavior you know because obviously if you want an know because obviously if you want an know because obviously if you want an audience and if you want to place it audience and if you want to place it audience and if you want to place it theatrics where else would you want to theatrics where else would you want to theatrics where else would you want to go than a place where everybody else is go than a place where everybody else is go than a place where everybody else is freaking out and everybody's looking to freaking out and everybody's looking to freaking out and everybody's looking to be freaked out be freaked out be freaked out >> you know so obviously social media >> you know so obviously social media >> you know so obviously social media attracts the absolute worst of the human attracts the absolute worst of the human attracts the absolute worst of the human race. It attracts the most impulsive the race. It attracts the most impulsive the race. It attracts the most impulsive the most theatrical the most narcissistic most theatrical the most narcissistic most theatrical the most narcissistic the most psychopathic the most low IQ. the most psychopathic the most low IQ. the most psychopathic the most low IQ. You know these are the you know often You know these are the you know often You know these are the you know often the worst people. Not saying that there the worst people. Not saying that there the worst people. Not saying that there aren't good people on social media. Of aren't good people on social media. Of aren't good people on social media. Of course there are. When you look at it course there are. When you look at it course there are. When you look at it from a statistical point of view, you from a statistical point of view, you from a statistical point of view, you have over representation of the worst have over representation of the worst have over representation of the worst elements of humankind. elements of humankind. elements of humankind. >> I also imagine even if you have somebody >> I also imagine even if you have somebody >> I also imagine even if you have somebody who is compassionate and well-meaning who is compassionate and well-meaning who is compassionate and well-meaning and delicate and and and thoughtful and and delicate and and and thoughtful and and delicate and and and thoughtful and high IQ, high IQ, high IQ, >> they're operating in an environment >> they're operating in an environment >> they're operating in an environment where they regress to the mean. And the where they regress to the mean. And the where they regress to the mean. And the mean is mean, mean is mean, mean is mean, >> oddly enough, I had one. So, uh, for the >> oddly enough, I had one. So, uh, for the >> oddly enough, I had one. So, uh, for the people that haven't heard us do this people that haven't heard us do this people that haven't heard us do this before, most of the stuff is me before, most of the stuff is me before, most of the stuff is me shamelessly shilling Gwinder stuff and shamelessly shilling Gwinder stuff and shamelessly shilling Gwinder stuff and then he says it back to me. But then he says it back to me. But then he says it back to me. But sometimes I bring stuff from home and sometimes I bring stuff from home and sometimes I bring stuff from home and I've got I've got some that I brought I've got I've got some that I brought I've got I've got some that I brought from home. Uh, so this one's kind of from home. Uh, so this one's kind of from home. Uh, so this one's kind of related. Recursive red pill learning. related. Recursive red pill learning. related. Recursive red pill learning. Most people get their information from Most people get their information from Most people get their information from the internet. The stories online which the internet. The stories online which the internet. The stories online which garner the most attention are the most garner the most attention are the most garner the most attention are the most extreme. Meaning that influences extreme. Meaning that influences extreme. Meaning that influences unrepresentative insights are being unrepresentative insights are being unrepresentative insights are being trained on other influences trained on other influences trained on other influences unrepresentative insights leading to unrepresentative insights leading to unrepresentative insights leading to self-reinforcing antagonism between the self-reinforcing antagonism between the self-reinforcing antagonism between the sexes. This came out of a quote that I sexes. This came out of a quote that I sexes. This came out of a quote that I saw online, which is having a boyfriend saw online, which is having a boyfriend saw online, which is having a boyfriend is embarrassing now, which was that is embarrassing now, which was that is embarrassing now, which was that Variety article that came out about 6 Variety article that came out about 6 Variety article that came out about 6 months ago, has the same energy as the months ago, has the same energy as the months ago, has the same energy as the Kardashians made skinny go out of style Kardashians made skinny go out of style Kardashians made skinny go out of style in that neither is true if you just go in that neither is true if you just go in that neither is true if you just go outside. So this um the the loudest outside. So this um the the loudest outside. So this um the the loudest stories, the biggest stories, the ones stories, the biggest stories, the ones stories, the biggest stories, the ones with the most up votes on Reddit by with the most up votes on Reddit by with the most up votes on Reddit by definition are the ones that are the definition are the ones that are the definition are the ones that are the most attention grabbing, which means most attention grabbing, which means most attention grabbing, which means that they're the most extreme or that they're the most extreme or that they're the most extreme or unrepresentative. And that means if you unrepresentative. And that means if you unrepresentative. And that means if you spend most of your time learning about spend most of your time learning about spend most of your time learning about the world through the internet, what you the world through the internet, what you the world through the internet, what you see is the least representative see is the least representative see is the least representative presentation of what reality is like presentation of what reality is like presentation of what reality is like over and over again and it just retrains over and over again and it just retrains over and over again and it just retrains you to expect that as normality. you to expect that as normality. you to expect that as normality. >> Yeah. And I've seen this play out in >> Yeah. And I've seen this play out in >> Yeah. And I've seen this play out in real time because I've been on on social real time because I've been on on social real time because I've been on on social media since uh around 2014. And in that media since uh around 2014. And in that media since uh around 2014. And in that time, you know, I've stuck with pretty time, you know, I've stuck with pretty time, you know, I've stuck with pretty much the same group of sort of mutuals much the same group of sort of mutuals much the same group of sort of mutuals mostly. And I've actually witnessed an mostly. And I've actually witnessed an mostly. And I've actually witnessed an interesting pattern, which is that the interesting pattern, which is that the interesting pattern, which is that the people who spend the most time online people who spend the most time online people who spend the most time online have become more unhinged and more have become more unhinged and more have become more unhinged and more extreme in their beliefs. This is extreme in their beliefs. This is extreme in their beliefs. This is something I've personally witnessed. I something I've personally witnessed. I something I've personally witnessed. I know that this is n equals 1, but it's know that this is n equals 1, but it's know that this is n equals 1, but it's it's more compelling to me than studies it's more compelling to me than studies it's more compelling to me than studies because it's something I've literally because it's something I've literally because it's something I've literally witnessed happen in real time. Um, and I witnessed happen in real time. Um, and I witnessed happen in real time. Um, and I think this is it's probably I mean, this think this is it's probably I mean, this think this is it's probably I mean, this is also supported by research as well. is also supported by research as well. is also supported by research as well. um some of these uh you know I wrote um some of these uh you know I wrote um some of these uh you know I wrote this article called Dramageddon about this article called Dramageddon about this article called Dramageddon about people talking about a civil war um and people talking about a civil war um and people talking about a civil war um and this talk has been going on since around this talk has been going on since around this talk has been going on since around 2021 like really serious talk people 2021 like really serious talk people 2021 like really serious talk people like Elon Musk have like you know sort like Elon Musk have like you know sort like Elon Musk have like you know sort of promoted this idea that there's going of promoted this idea that there's going of promoted this idea that there's going to be a civil war between um the left to be a civil war between um the left to be a civil war between um the left and the right in the US and some people and the right in the US and some people and the right in the US and some people have said you know it will probably have said you know it will probably have said you know it will probably happen in the Europe as well but it's happen in the Europe as well but it's happen in the Europe as well but it's mainly it seems to be much more in the mainly it seems to be much more in the mainly it seems to be much more in the US because the US is a lot more US because the US is a lot more US because the US is a lot more politically polarized than than Europe politically polarized than than Europe politically polarized than than Europe is um in general and um basically this is um in general and um basically this is um in general and um basically this idea is is that you know a lot of these idea is is that you know a lot of these idea is is that you know a lot of these people think there's going to be a civil people think there's going to be a civil people think there's going to be a civil war for precisely the reasons that you war for precisely the reasons that you war for precisely the reasons that you gave which is that what we see is that gave which is that what we see is that gave which is that what we see is that what goes most viral are the so-called what goes most viral are the so-called what goes most viral are the so-called scissor statements you know what what scissor statements you know what what scissor statements you know what what Scott Alexander called scissor Scott Alexander called scissor Scott Alexander called scissor statements which are statements that are statements which are statements that are statements which are statements that are deliberately designed to um create deliberately designed to um create deliberately designed to um create debates create um arguments basically debates create um arguments basically debates create um arguments basically like and this is you know this is this like and this is you know this is this like and this is you know this is this is one of the reasons why the the media is one of the reasons why the the media is one of the reasons why the the media Now, what they seek to do is they don't Now, what they seek to do is they don't Now, what they seek to do is they don't seek to just tell you things that are seek to just tell you things that are seek to just tell you things that are true, they seek to actually create true, they seek to actually create true, they seek to actually create statements or news reports that will statements or news reports that will statements or news reports that will divide people because when they do that, divide people because when they do that, divide people because when they do that, the two sides will argue over that issue the two sides will argue over that issue the two sides will argue over that issue and in so doing, they will help that and in so doing, they will help that and in so doing, they will help that thing go viral. So, for example, if you thing go viral. So, for example, if you thing go viral. So, for example, if you are, you know, if you're the New York are, you know, if you're the New York are, you know, if you're the New York Times and you want to go viral, how do Times and you want to go viral, how do Times and you want to go viral, how do you go viral? You're not going to go you go viral? You're not going to go you go viral? You're not going to go viral by telling the truth. If you just viral by telling the truth. If you just viral by telling the truth. If you just state facts like um you know about some state facts like um you know about some state facts like um you know about some sort of reporting uh you're not really sort of reporting uh you're not really sort of reporting uh you're not really going to go viral most of the time. But going to go viral most of the time. But going to go viral most of the time. But what you what will go viral is if you what you what will go viral is if you what you what will go viral is if you make a divisive claim something that's make a divisive claim something that's make a divisive claim something that's going to split the internet into two. So going to split the internet into two. So going to split the internet into two. So something like um oh uh you know white something like um oh uh you know white something like um oh uh you know white people are privileged too privileged u people are privileged too privileged u people are privileged too privileged u you know if you say something like that you know if you say something like that you know if you say something like that that's going to divide the internet in that's going to divide the internet in that's going to divide the internet in half. You'll have half of the people be half. You'll have half of the people be half. You'll have half of the people be like yeah you know oh you know white like yeah you know oh you know white like yeah you know oh you know white people are too privileged you know we people are too privileged you know we people are too privileged you know we need to do something about it. And then need to do something about it. And then need to do something about it. And then you have the other half people say no no you have the other half people say no no you have the other half people say no no no this is all nonsense. you know, this no this is all nonsense. you know, this no this is all nonsense. you know, this is based on, you know, false studies, is based on, you know, false studies, is based on, you know, false studies, bad studies, all this stuff, you know, bad studies, all this stuff, you know, bad studies, all this stuff, you know, and so then they'll argue over it and in and so then they'll argue over it and in and so then they'll argue over it and in arguing over it, they're going to make arguing over it, they're going to make arguing over it, they're going to make it go viral because then it's going to it go viral because then it's going to it go viral because then it's going to appear on everybody's timeline and then appear on everybody's timeline and then appear on everybody's timeline and then people are going to be writing substack people are going to be writing substack people are going to be writing substack uh about it. They're going to be uh uh about it. They're going to be uh uh about it. They're going to be uh making videos about it, you know, and so making videos about it, you know, and so making videos about it, you know, and so this all helps the the original uh claim this all helps the the original uh claim this all helps the the original uh claim to go viral. And so this is the sort of to go viral. And so this is the sort of to go viral. And so this is the sort of tragic system in which we're in in which tragic system in which we're in in which tragic system in which we're in in which just stating true things does not go just stating true things does not go just stating true things does not go viral, but but dividing people, saying viral, but but dividing people, saying viral, but but dividing people, saying things that are going to divide people things that are going to divide people things that are going to divide people does. And this is why I think so many does. And this is why I think so many does. And this is why I think so many people still believe that there's going people still believe that there's going people still believe that there's going to be a civil war in the US, even though to be a civil war in the US, even though to be a civil war in the US, even though there's just when you look at reality, there's just when you look at reality, there's just when you look at reality, there's just no inkling of this there's just no inkling of this there's just no inkling of this whatsoever. You know, the polarization whatsoever. You know, the polarization whatsoever. You know, the polarization does exist, but the polarization exists does exist, but the polarization exists does exist, but the polarization exists amongst the top like 1% of people on amongst the top like 1% of people on amongst the top like 1% of people on social media who are most engaged in social media who are most engaged in social media who are most engaged in politics. It doesn't it doesn't really politics. It doesn't it doesn't really politics. It doesn't it doesn't really exist very much in in the wider world, exist very much in in the wider world, exist very much in in the wider world, you know. So, yeah. you know. So, yeah. you know. So, yeah. >> In other news, Shopify powers 10% of all >> In other news, Shopify powers 10% of all >> In other news, Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce companies in the United e-commerce companies in the United e-commerce companies in the United States. They are the driving force States. They are the driving force States. 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You stress people have more comforts and stress people have more comforts and stress people have more comforts and conveniences than ever. Yet reports of conveniences than ever. Yet reports of conveniences than ever. Yet reports of unhappiness are at an all-time high. One unhappiness are at an all-time high. One unhappiness are at an all-time high. One reason is that discomfort isn't an reason is that discomfort isn't an reason is that discomfort isn't an obstacle to happiness. It's the path to obstacle to happiness. It's the path to obstacle to happiness. It's the path to it. For it's only by enduring struggles it. For it's only by enduring struggles it. For it's only by enduring struggles that we develop the resilience necessary that we develop the resilience necessary that we develop the resilience necessary for lasting contentment. And you had a for lasting contentment. And you had a for lasting contentment. And you had a [ __ ] slammer that I've been thinking [ __ ] slammer that I've been thinking [ __ ] slammer that I've been thinking about so much. Automate only the skills about so much. Automate only the skills about so much. Automate only the skills you're willing to lose. That those two you're willing to lose. That those two you're willing to lose. That those two feel like they're pretty related. feel like they're pretty related. feel like they're pretty related. >> Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we've been >> Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we've been >> Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we've been told, again, this is another sort of um told, again, this is another sort of um told, again, this is another sort of um error that the sort of social sciences error that the sort of social sciences error that the sort of social sciences have for a long time propagated, which have for a long time propagated, which have for a long time propagated, which is that, you know, if somebody's exposed is that, you know, if somebody's exposed is that, you know, if somebody's exposed to stress, then it's bad for their to stress, then it's bad for their to stress, then it's bad for their health. You know, it can cause trauma or health. You know, it can cause trauma or health. You know, it can cause trauma or whatever, you know, that horrible word. whatever, you know, that horrible word. whatever, you know, that horrible word. Um but I mean when you actually look at Um but I mean when you actually look at Um but I mean when you actually look at the not just the data but when you just the not just the data but when you just the not just the data but when you just look at pretty much all of human history look at pretty much all of human history look at pretty much all of human history right it's clear that stress can be very right it's clear that stress can be very right it's clear that stress can be very beneficial not all stress right there's beneficial not all stress right there's beneficial not all stress right there's a certain kind of stress and that's a certain kind of stress and that's a certain kind of stress and that's called ust stress and so you know called ust stress and so you know called ust stress and so you know ustress is basically the stress that ustress is basically the stress that ustress is basically the stress that challenges you that basically forces you challenges you that basically forces you challenges you that basically forces you to adjust that forces you to improve to adjust that forces you to improve to adjust that forces you to improve basically um it's not like the stress of basically um it's not like the stress of basically um it's not like the stress of um you know being online and being um you know being online and being um you know being online and being constantly exposed to just you know constantly exposed to just you know constantly exposed to just you know horrific uh news from around the world horrific uh news from around the world horrific uh news from around the world that's bad stress because you can't that's bad stress because you can't that's bad stress because you can't really do anything about that right if really do anything about that right if really do anything about that right if you you know if you if you're stressed you you know if you if you're stressed you you know if you if you're stressed because your feed is filled with because your feed is filled with because your feed is filled with horrific you know um news stories from horrific you know um news stories from horrific you know um news stories from around the world that's just bad stress around the world that's just bad stress around the world that's just bad stress it's just going to stress you out you it's just going to stress you out you it's just going to stress you out you can't do anything about it so you it's can't do anything about it so you it's can't do anything about it so you it's pointless it's pointless stress it's pointless it's pointless stress it's pointless it's pointless stress it's pointless suffering good stress is when pointless suffering good stress is when pointless suffering good stress is when you can do something about it So, it's you can do something about it So, it's you can do something about it So, it's the it's stuff like, you know, if you've the it's stuff like, you know, if you've the it's stuff like, you know, if you've got um if you've got a date, for got um if you've got a date, for got um if you've got a date, for example, right? If you have a date with example, right? If you have a date with example, right? If you have a date with a with a girl, that's stressful because a with a girl, that's stressful because a with a girl, that's stressful because now you've got to be your best. You got now you've got to be your best. You got now you've got to be your best. You got to be the best version of you. You know, to be the best version of you. You know, to be the best version of you. You know, you've got to you got to impress that you've got to you got to impress that you've got to you got to impress that girl. So, you you're under a lot of girl. So, you you're under a lot of girl. So, you you're under a lot of stress, right? But that forces you to stress, right? But that forces you to stress, right? But that forces you to become better. It's a challenge and you become better. It's a challenge and you become better. It's a challenge and you have to meet it. And what happens is have to meet it. And what happens is have to meet it. And what happens is that in in so trying to meet that that that in in so trying to meet that that that in in so trying to meet that that challenge, you become a better person. challenge, you become a better person. challenge, you become a better person. It it helps to it helps you both at a It it helps to it helps you both at a It it helps to it helps you both at a psychological level but also at a psychological level but also at a psychological level but also at a physiological level. It's hormetic physiological level. It's hormetic physiological level. It's hormetic stress, you know. So hormetic stress is stress, you know. So hormetic stress is stress, you know. So hormetic stress is stress that sort of makes you adapt stress that sort of makes you adapt stress that sort of makes you adapt basically. It makes your body adapt to basically. It makes your body adapt to basically. It makes your body adapt to it. And constant stress of that kind is it. And constant stress of that kind is it. And constant stress of that kind is really really good for you. And this the really really good for you. And this the really really good for you. And this the research is is is very clear on this. research is is is very clear on this. research is is is very clear on this. But also ordinary human experience is But also ordinary human experience is But also ordinary human experience is clear on this as well. Anybody who's clear on this as well. Anybody who's clear on this as well. Anybody who's lived on this earth knows that you need lived on this earth knows that you need lived on this earth knows that you need a little bit of stress now and again a little bit of stress now and again a little bit of stress now and again just to sort of, you know, push you just to sort of, you know, push you just to sort of, you know, push you forward and and get things going. And so forward and and get things going. And so forward and and get things going. And so this whole thing that we've been told by this whole thing that we've been told by this whole thing that we've been told by a lot of people, which is that, you a lot of people, which is that, you a lot of people, which is that, you know, we need to minimize stress um know, we need to minimize stress um know, we need to minimize stress um because then we'll live longer or because then we'll live longer or because then we'll live longer or whatever, that's actually it's not whatever, that's actually it's not whatever, that's actually it's not really true. It's half true. You know, really true. It's half true. You know, really true. It's half true. You know, bad stress is bad for you. It will it bad stress is bad for you. It will it bad stress is bad for you. It will it will reduce your lifespan probably you will reduce your lifespan probably you will reduce your lifespan probably you know but we need to constantly expose know but we need to constantly expose know but we need to constantly expose ourselves to discomfort if we want to be ourselves to discomfort if we want to be ourselves to discomfort if we want to be able to be happy because happiness is able to be happy because happiness is able to be happy because happiness is dependent on having a resilient mind. dependent on having a resilient mind. dependent on having a resilient mind. You cannot be happy unless you have a You cannot be happy unless you have a You cannot be happy unless you have a strong mind because you have to be able strong mind because you have to be able strong mind because you have to be able to weather all the slings and arrows of to weather all the slings and arrows of to weather all the slings and arrows of vicissitude and the vicissitudes of life vicissitude and the vicissitudes of life vicissitude and the vicissitudes of life like they will constantly throwing like they will constantly throwing like they will constantly throwing things at you. life will constantly be, things at you. life will constantly be, things at you. life will constantly be, you know, knocking you astray from your you know, knocking you astray from your you know, knocking you astray from your course. It will constantly be throwing, course. It will constantly be throwing, course. It will constantly be throwing, you know, just a lot of unexpected you know, just a lot of unexpected you know, just a lot of unexpected things are going to be happening. If things are going to be happening. If things are going to be happening. If you're only happy when things are going you're only happy when things are going you're only happy when things are going your way, you're not going to be happy your way, you're not going to be happy your way, you're not going to be happy most of the time. And so, you have to most of the time. And so, you have to most of the time. And so, you have to cultivate the strength. And that's cultivate the strength. And that's cultivate the strength. And that's essentially comes from exposing yourself essentially comes from exposing yourself essentially comes from exposing yourself to stress. the more stress of that not to stress. the more stress of that not to stress. the more stress of that not not stress but you stress the more you not stress but you stress the more you not stress but you stress the more you stress you you expose yourself to the stress you you expose yourself to the stress you you expose yourself to the more resilient your mind becomes and the more resilient your mind becomes and the more resilient your mind becomes and the more you are able to stay happy no more you are able to stay happy no more you are able to stay happy no matter what life throws at you matter what life throws at you matter what life throws at you >> what about automate only the skills >> what about automate only the skills >> what about automate only the skills you're willing to lose you're willing to lose you're willing to lose >> yeah so this is basically the same >> yeah so this is basically the same >> yeah so this is basically the same principle so principle so principle so stress is also a form of learning it's stress is also a form of learning it's stress is also a form of learning it's it's how you learn right you know I it's how you learn right you know I it's how you learn right you know I always say that you know um you know you always say that you know um you know you always say that you know um you know you you can you can rent wisdom but you can you can you can rent wisdom but you can you can you can rent wisdom but you can only purchase it with pain, only purchase it with pain, only purchase it with pain, right? So, what I mean by that is, you right? So, what I mean by that is, you right? So, what I mean by that is, you know, you could tell me something, you know, you could tell me something, you know, you could tell me something, you could give me some modern wisdom, right? could give me some modern wisdom, right? could give me some modern wisdom, right? And I will be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, And I will be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, And I will be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a really cool way of living. You that's a really cool way of living. You that's a really cool way of living. You know, maybe I should do that." And I'll know, maybe I should do that." And I'll know, maybe I should do that." And I'll try it a couple of days and then I'll try it a couple of days and then I'll try it a couple of days and then I'll forget it exists and I'll just carry on forget it exists and I'll just carry on forget it exists and I'll just carry on with my life as it was. But if I learn with my life as it was. But if I learn with my life as it was. But if I learn that same lesson through hardship, if I that same lesson through hardship, if I that same lesson through hardship, if I suffer, if I if I'm exposed to stress suffer, if I if I'm exposed to stress suffer, if I if I'm exposed to stress and I have to adopt that out of and I have to adopt that out of and I have to adopt that out of necessity, then it becomes integrated necessity, then it becomes integrated necessity, then it becomes integrated into me and then it becomes a habit. into me and then it becomes a habit. into me and then it becomes a habit. It's something that will always rem, It's something that will always rem, It's something that will always rem, you know, the the sort of the pain you know, the the sort of the pain you know, the the sort of the pain engraved the lesson into my brain. And engraved the lesson into my brain. And engraved the lesson into my brain. And so stress can also be a form of so stress can also be a form of so stress can also be a form of learning. And one of the things with learning. And one of the things with learning. And one of the things with automating things is it completely automating things is it completely automating things is it completely reduces the friction. It reduces the reduces the friction. It reduces the reduces the friction. It reduces the stress. You no longer need to engage in stress. You no longer need to engage in stress. You no longer need to engage in any kind of discomfort because you just any kind of discomfort because you just any kind of discomfort because you just get things done automatically for you. get things done automatically for you. get things done automatically for you. And so you don't learn as a result of And so you don't learn as a result of And so you don't learn as a result of that because the pain, the stress is a that because the pain, the stress is a that because the pain, the stress is a necessary component of the learning. necessary component of the learning. necessary component of the learning. You're not going to remember the lesson You're not going to remember the lesson You're not going to remember the lesson unless you really suffer or expose unless you really suffer or expose unless you really suffer or expose yourself to some kind of stress that yourself to some kind of stress that yourself to some kind of stress that forces your body to internalize the forces your body to internalize the forces your body to internalize the lesson. lesson. lesson. >> Have you looked at that research? uh >> Have you looked at that research? uh >> Have you looked at that research? uh maybe Harvard, maybe MIT about students maybe Harvard, maybe MIT about students maybe Harvard, maybe MIT about students that use LLMs to help them with learning that use LLMs to help them with learning that use LLMs to help them with learning and writing and the differential in and writing and the differential in and writing and the differential in terms of how much they can recall terms of how much they can recall terms of how much they can recall afterward. afterward. afterward. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I recall this study. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I recall this study. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I recall this study. Yeah. I think so. Um this is basically has I think so. Um this is basically has I think so. Um this is basically has found that essentially found that essentially found that essentially LLMs can cause brain rot basically. I LLMs can cause brain rot basically. I LLMs can cause brain rot basically. I think I think that was like the one of think I think that was like the one of think I think that was like the one of the sort of clickbait titles that was the sort of clickbait titles that was the sort of clickbait titles that was given to the study. um that LLM's cause given to the study. um that LLM's cause given to the study. um that LLM's cause brain rot. So yeah, I mean it's the same brain rot. So yeah, I mean it's the same brain rot. So yeah, I mean it's the same principle basically like when you are, principle basically like when you are, principle basically like when you are, you know, outsourcing your abilities to you know, outsourcing your abilities to you know, outsourcing your abilities to an LLM, there's no incentive for your an LLM, there's no incentive for your an LLM, there's no incentive for your your body or your brain to learn the your body or your brain to learn the your body or your brain to learn the lessons, right? you know, you're just lessons, right? you know, you're just lessons, right? you know, you're just kind of um because it's like what Plato kind of um because it's like what Plato kind of um because it's like what Plato said um you know, in Fedrris where he said um you know, in Fedrris where he said um you know, in Fedrris where he was talking about his one of his uh sort was talking about his one of his uh sort was talking about his one of his uh sort of concerns was he was writing at a time of concerns was he was writing at a time of concerns was he was writing at a time when when sort of paper and pen and or when when sort of paper and pen and or when when sort of paper and pen and or parchment and pen were becoming common. parchment and pen were becoming common. parchment and pen were becoming common. So this was the AI of his age and he So this was the AI of his age and he So this was the AI of his age and he lamented that um paper was going to or lamented that um paper was going to or lamented that um paper was going to or parchment was going to destroy people's parchment was going to destroy people's parchment was going to destroy people's memory because if they could write memory because if they could write memory because if they could write things down then they would have no things down then they would have no things down then they would have no incentive to remember it. And uh I mean incentive to remember it. And uh I mean incentive to remember it. And uh I mean I don't know how true that is but I I don't know how true that is but I I don't know how true that is but I think that there is a certain sort of think that there is a certain sort of think that there is a certain sort of analog with what we're seeing today analog with what we're seeing today analog with what we're seeing today which is you know there's this thing which is you know there's this thing which is you know there's this thing called the Google effect. Now this is called the Google effect. Now this is called the Google effect. Now this is it's not a robust finding but I think it's not a robust finding but I think it's not a robust finding but I think that it it I think the finding does that it it I think the finding does that it it I think the finding does exist. I think the finding is true, but exist. I think the finding is true, but exist. I think the finding is true, but it's probably smaller than it is. It's it's probably smaller than it is. It's it's probably smaller than it is. It's probably overstated. But the the Google probably overstated. But the the Google probably overstated. But the the Google effect is this idea that, you know, if effect is this idea that, you know, if effect is this idea that, you know, if you can just kind of Google anything, you can just kind of Google anything, you can just kind of Google anything, then there's no need for you to uh then there's no need for you to uh then there's no need for you to uh remember facts basically because you can remember facts basically because you can remember facts basically because you can your your mind has essentially been your your mind has essentially been your your mind has essentially been extended to your screen. So that's now extended to your screen. So that's now extended to your screen. So that's now functioning as your memory. Your laptop functioning as your memory. Your laptop functioning as your memory. Your laptop screen, your phone screen is your is screen, your phone screen is your is screen, your phone screen is your is basically your memory now. So your your basically your memory now. So your your basically your memory now. So your your actual memory doesn't really feel the actual memory doesn't really feel the actual memory doesn't really feel the need as it were to kind of remember need as it were to kind of remember need as it were to kind of remember anything. So I mean you know again the anything. So I mean you know again the anything. So I mean you know again the research on this is a bit shaky. I I research on this is a bit shaky. I I research on this is a bit shaky. I I don't want to say that this is genuinely don't want to say that this is genuinely don't want to say that this is genuinely a thing because it's contradicted by a thing because it's contradicted by a thing because it's contradicted by some of the studies. Um but some studies some of the studies. Um but some studies some of the studies. Um but some studies have found that this is this is the have found that this is this is the have found that this is this is the case. So um I don't know with this chat case. So um I don't know with this chat case. So um I don't know with this chat GPT thing if it really does cause brain GPT thing if it really does cause brain GPT thing if it really does cause brain rot in the same sense because it's only rot in the same sense because it's only rot in the same sense because it's only one study and I'm very very sort of wary one study and I'm very very sort of wary one study and I'm very very sort of wary of single studies now because of of of single studies now because of of of single studies now because of of course we've got a replication crisis. A course we've got a replication crisis. A course we've got a replication crisis. A lot of studies are not replicated now. lot of studies are not replicated now. lot of studies are not replicated now. So, um, but what I will say is one thing So, um, but what I will say is one thing So, um, but what I will say is one thing that we know for sure is if you don't that we know for sure is if you don't that we know for sure is if you don't use it, you lose it. This is a this is a use it, you lose it. This is a this is a use it, you lose it. This is a this is a a fact that's beyond dispute. It's true a fact that's beyond dispute. It's true a fact that's beyond dispute. It's true of, uh, your body, it's true of your of, uh, your body, it's true of your of, uh, your body, it's true of your brain, right? If you, you know, there's brain, right? If you, you know, there's brain, right? If you, you know, there's there's recent research um, which only there's recent research um, which only there's recent research um, which only came out, I think yesterday, which found came out, I think yesterday, which found came out, I think yesterday, which found that uh, people who are whose brains are that uh, people who are whose brains are that uh, people who are whose brains are active in in late life, so from the ages active in in late life, so from the ages active in in late life, so from the ages of 50 to 80, they have much um, they're of 50 to 80, they have much um, they're of 50 to 80, they have much um, they're much less likely to develop Alzheimer's much less likely to develop Alzheimer's much less likely to develop Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia. Um so if and other forms of dementia. Um so if and other forms of dementia. Um so if you know if you basically engage in you know if you basically engage in you know if you basically engage in things like video games um uh board things like video games um uh board things like video games um uh board games like chess uh if you write and games like chess uh if you write and games like chess uh if you write and read a lot if you if you keep your brain read a lot if you if you keep your brain read a lot if you if you keep your brain active in your sort of 50s then then active in your sort of 50s then then active in your sort of 50s then then your chances of developing like dementia your chances of developing like dementia your chances of developing like dementia are much lower apparently and this is are much lower apparently and this is are much lower apparently and this is apparently like a pretty robust apparently like a pretty robust apparently like a pretty robust longitudinal study. So um and again this longitudinal study. So um and again this longitudinal study. So um and again this fits this is not just an isolated study. fits this is not just an isolated study. fits this is not just an isolated study. This fits with all the other research This fits with all the other research This fits with all the other research that has been done on this topic. Like that has been done on this topic. Like that has been done on this topic. Like the more you the more actively you use the more you the more actively you use the more you the more actively you use your brain the stronger your brain your brain the stronger your brain your brain the stronger your brain becomes. It's you know although it's not becomes. It's you know although it's not becomes. It's you know although it's not technically a muscle it functions like a technically a muscle it functions like a technically a muscle it functions like a muscle in that respect. muscle in that respect. muscle in that respect. >> And so I mean one of one of my big fears >> And so I mean one of one of my big fears >> And so I mean one of one of my big fears about AI is not that um the machine is about AI is not that um the machine is about AI is not that um the machine is going to go conscious. It's going to going to go conscious. It's going to going to go conscious. It's going to become conscious. it's that it's become conscious. it's that it's become conscious. it's that it's actually going to steal our actually going to steal our actually going to steal our consciousness away from us by consciousness away from us by consciousness away from us by essentially just causing us to outsource essentially just causing us to outsource essentially just causing us to outsource all of our agency, our intelligence, you all of our agency, our intelligence, you all of our agency, our intelligence, you know, to it and causing our own brains know, to it and causing our own brains know, to it and causing our own brains to atrophy. So, to atrophy. So, to atrophy. So, >> I think I I had a conversation with Cal >> I think I I had a conversation with Cal >> I think I I had a conversation with Cal Newport, Deep Workman, uh, last week Newport, Deep Workman, uh, last week Newport, Deep Workman, uh, last week about a lot of this. Obviously his whole about a lot of this. Obviously his whole about a lot of this. Obviously his whole thing for 15 years now since he wrote so thing for 15 years now since he wrote so thing for 15 years now since he wrote so good they can't ignore you was how can good they can't ignore you was how can good they can't ignore you was how can you stand out you stand out you stand out in a field of relative equals but I in a field of relative equals but I in a field of relative equals but I think his perspect certainly my think his perspect certainly my think his perspect certainly my perspective now is that perspective now is that perspective now is that the the field is getting worse and worse the the field is getting worse and worse the the field is getting worse and worse the the the bar that you need to get the the the bar that you need to get the the the bar that you need to get over is becoming ever lower um you know over is becoming ever lower um you know over is becoming ever lower um you know in order for you to get a partner at the in order for you to get a partner at the in order for you to get a partner at the moment. Simply approaching somebody in moment. Simply approaching somebody in moment. Simply approaching somebody in person in the real world is a one in a person in the real world is a one in a person in the real world is a one in a thousand chance as opposed to 50 years thousand chance as opposed to 50 years thousand chance as opposed to 50 years ago that would be something that ago that would be something that ago that would be something that everybody was doing. And the same thing everybody was doing. And the same thing everybody was doing. And the same thing goes for what's the quality of your goes for what's the quality of your goes for what's the quality of your writing. Well, what AI is enabling is writing. Well, what AI is enabling is writing. Well, what AI is enabling is velocity and uh quantity, but it's velocity and uh quantity, but it's velocity and uh quantity, but it's regressing to the mean with regards to regressing to the mean with regards to regressing to the mean with regards to quality and creativity and taste quality and creativity and taste quality and creativity and taste especially. So, if you can cultivate especially. So, if you can cultivate especially. So, if you can cultivate creativity, quality work, writing and creativity, quality work, writing and creativity, quality work, writing and good sense of taste, you are going to good sense of taste, you are going to good sense of taste, you are going to stand out even more. And you don't even stand out even more. And you don't even stand out even more. And you don't even need to cultivate it. You simply need to need to cultivate it. You simply need to need to cultivate it. You simply need to stop it from atrophying. If you can hold stop it from atrophying. If you can hold stop it from atrophying. If you can hold your level, if you can hold 2016 levels your level, if you can hold 2016 levels your level, if you can hold 2016 levels of focus and ability to write and of focus and ability to write and of focus and ability to write and overcome stuff, I mean, if there's overcome stuff, I mean, if there's overcome stuff, I mean, if there's somebody out there who's got sort of somebody out there who's got sort of somebody out there who's got sort of 2008 levels of non-distraction before 2008 levels of non-distraction before 2008 levels of non-distraction before Slack and before smartphones, like you Slack and before smartphones, like you Slack and before smartphones, like you didn't you don't need to be better, you didn't you don't need to be better, you didn't you don't need to be better, you just need to not be worse. And that just need to not be worse. And that just need to not be worse. And that ability to kind of hold as the entropy, ability to kind of hold as the entropy, ability to kind of hold as the entropy, the sort of technological entropy of the the sort of technological entropy of the the sort of technological entropy of the system is trying to [ __ ] compress you system is trying to [ __ ] compress you system is trying to [ __ ] compress you into dust. uh that that to me it kind of into dust. uh that that to me it kind of into dust. uh that that to me it kind of is hopeful. It's a a hope inspire as as is hopeful. It's a a hope inspire as as is hopeful. It's a a hope inspire as as a civilization gets fatter. Not great a civilization gets fatter. Not great a civilization gets fatter. Not great for the civilization. I think that it for the civilization. I think that it for the civilization. I think that it should be good that everyone's in should be good that everyone's in should be good that everyone's in health, but it does make for a pretty health, but it does make for a pretty health, but it does make for a pretty uncompetitive environment if you are uncompetitive environment if you are uncompetitive environment if you are someone that is able to avoid getting someone that is able to avoid getting someone that is able to avoid getting fatter. Like that's good for you in as fatter. Like that's good for you in as fatter. Like that's good for you in as much as civilization and and the people much as civilization and and the people much as civilization and and the people around you are kind of a bit of a around you are kind of a bit of a around you are kind of a bit of a competition, which they are. Uh the same competition, which they are. Uh the same competition, which they are. Uh the same thing goes for being able to read. Now, thing goes for being able to read. Now, thing goes for being able to read. Now, how long is it going to be before if we how long is it going to be before if we how long is it going to be before if we neural link in we don't actually need to neural link in we don't actually need to neural link in we don't actually need to have the written word anymore? We don't have the written word anymore? We don't have the written word anymore? We don't need to have the spoken word anymore. need to have the spoken word anymore. need to have the spoken word anymore. And that all of these skills that'll And that all of these skills that'll And that all of these skills that'll atrophy eventually you may get into a atrophy eventually you may get into a atrophy eventually you may get into a world where that's so redundant that you world where that's so redundant that you world where that's so redundant that you don't actually want it. That there's don't actually want it. That there's don't actually want it. That there's better ways. But at the moment, we're at better ways. But at the moment, we're at better ways. But at the moment, we're at a transition period where you still need a transition period where you still need a transition period where you still need to be able to have the skills from the to be able to have the skills from the to be able to have the skills from the old world in order to have a competitive old world in order to have a competitive old world in order to have a competitive advantage in the new one. So, yeah, I I advantage in the new one. So, yeah, I I advantage in the new one. So, yeah, I I I'm I'm increasingly thinking now I'm I'm increasingly thinking now I'm I'm increasingly thinking now about about about what are the things that are nonfgeible, what are the things that are nonfgeible, what are the things that are nonfgeible, what are the things that are only human, what are the things that are only human, what are the things that are only human, what are the things and that's really what are the things and that's really what are the things and that's really where most of my attention should be where most of my attention should be where most of my attention should be focused on writing without using AI to focused on writing without using AI to focused on writing without using AI to help me with my research on coming up help me with my research on coming up help me with my research on coming up with ideas on developing taste on trying with ideas on developing taste on trying with ideas on developing taste on trying to be creative on giving myself space to be creative on giving myself space to be creative on giving myself space because as all of the market moves in because as all of the market moves in because as all of the market moves in the direction of well I can just publish the direction of well I can just publish the direction of well I can just publish more if I publish more slop because I've more if I publish more slop because I've more if I publish more slop because I've been enabled by the the magnifier that been enabled by the the magnifier that been enabled by the the magnifier that is LLMs is LLMs is LLMs that is where the entirety of the market that is where the entirety of the market that is where the entirety of the market will move because it's the path of least will move because it's the path of least will move because it's the path of least resistance. Okay. Well, what's the resistance. Okay. Well, what's the resistance. Okay. Well, what's the opposite of that? What's the more opposite of that? What's the more opposite of that? What's the more difficult choice? difficult choice? difficult choice? >> Yeah. The secret I think to to surviving >> Yeah. The secret I think to to surviving >> Yeah. The secret I think to to surviving the future is going to be agency because the future is going to be agency because the future is going to be agency because as I said before, that is the one truly as I said before, that is the one truly as I said before, that is the one truly nonfgeible thing. You know, I think nonfgeible thing. You know, I think nonfgeible thing. You know, I think everything else is downstream of agency. everything else is downstream of agency. everything else is downstream of agency. I think what's going to happen in the I think what's going to happen in the I think what's going to happen in the sort of AI age is that essentially sort of AI age is that essentially sort of AI age is that essentially humanity is going to split in two. And I humanity is going to split in two. And I humanity is going to split in two. And I think I've made a reference to this think I've made a reference to this think I've made a reference to this before. I think in we had a conversation before. I think in we had a conversation before. I think in we had a conversation in 2021 in which I I spoke about this in 2021 in which I I spoke about this in 2021 in which I I spoke about this but basically the analog I use is a but basically the analog I use is a but basically the analog I use is a novel called the time machine which was novel called the time machine which was novel called the time machine which was written I think at the start of the 20th written I think at the start of the 20th written I think at the start of the 20th century and um it was basically um this century and um it was basically um this century and um it was basically um this story of in the far future humanity has story of in the far future humanity has story of in the far future humanity has sort of evolved into two subspecies. So sort of evolved into two subspecies. So sort of evolved into two subspecies. So you got the Morlocks and the Eloy. And you got the Morlocks and the Eloy. And you got the Morlocks and the Eloy. And the Morlocks basically they do all the the Morlocks basically they do all the the Morlocks basically they do all the work. They've maintained like all their work. They've maintained like all their work. They've maintained like all their faculties because they have lived lives faculties because they have lived lives faculties because they have lived lives of uh drudgery and they've passed this of uh drudgery and they've passed this of uh drudgery and they've passed this on down to their generation from on down to their generation from on down to their generation from generation to generation and they're in generation to generation and they're in generation to generation and they're in charge of all of the machinery basically charge of all of the machinery basically charge of all of the machinery basically and they they you know they're and they they you know they're and they they you know they're constantly working and constantly constantly working and constantly constantly working and constantly improving themselves mentally and improving themselves mentally and improving themselves mentally and physically. And then you have the Eloy physically. And then you have the Eloy physically. And then you have the Eloy who were basically they were the former who were basically they were the former who were basically they were the former aristocrats. They were the ones who were aristocrats. They were the ones who were aristocrats. They were the ones who were had everything done for them. And as a had everything done for them. And as a had everything done for them. And as a result of this, they have all of their result of this, they have all of their result of this, they have all of their faculties have atrophied. So that their faculties have atrophied. So that their faculties have atrophied. So that their bodies are like really thin and frail. bodies are like really thin and frail. bodies are like really thin and frail. Their minds, they've become very naive. Their minds, they've become very naive. Their minds, they've become very naive. Um they're like they're basically like Um they're like they're basically like Um they're like they're basically like children. They've regressed into children. They've regressed into children. They've regressed into children. And they're completely children. And they're completely children. And they're completely dependent on the mocks who do everything dependent on the mocks who do everything dependent on the mocks who do everything for them. Uh and in the end, basically for them. Uh and in the end, basically for them. Uh and in the end, basically it turns out that the Morlocks have been it turns out that the Morlocks have been it turns out that the Morlocks have been farming the Eloy in order to eat them farming the Eloy in order to eat them farming the Eloy in order to eat them basically, you And while they're doing basically, you And while they're doing basically, you And while they're doing this, they're just distracting the Eloy this, they're just distracting the Eloy this, they're just distracting the Eloy with all this like entertainment all, with all this like entertainment all, with all this like entertainment all, you know, basically just to keep them uh you know, basically just to keep them uh you know, basically just to keep them uh placid. And I think that essentially placid. And I think that essentially placid. And I think that essentially we're going to have something probably we're going to have something probably we're going to have something probably not as horrific as that, but something not as horrific as that, but something not as horrific as that, but something similar in the sense that um we'll have similar in the sense that um we'll have similar in the sense that um we'll have a class system, a new class system where a class system, a new class system where a class system, a new class system where we'll have high agency people whose we'll have high agency people whose we'll have high agency people whose agency is going to be increased even agency is going to be increased even agency is going to be increased even more by AI and then we'll have passive more by AI and then we'll have passive more by AI and then we'll have passive people whose passivity will be increased people whose passivity will be increased people whose passivity will be increased even more by AI. Because AI, the way I even more by AI. Because AI, the way I even more by AI. Because AI, the way I look at it, I don't look at as look at it, I don't look at as look at it, I don't look at as artificial intelligence. I look at it as artificial intelligence. I look at it as artificial intelligence. I look at it as amplified intelligence. But as I say, amplified intelligence. But as I say, amplified intelligence. But as I say, you know, it can also amplify stupidity. you know, it can also amplify stupidity. you know, it can also amplify stupidity. It amplifies essentially it's an It amplifies essentially it's an It amplifies essentially it's an amplifier of everything. So if you're amplifier of everything. So if you're amplifier of everything. So if you're lazy, it will amplify your laziness. If lazy, it will amplify your laziness. If lazy, it will amplify your laziness. If you are highly agentic and you are highly agentic and you are highly agentic and conscientious, it will amplify those conscientious, it will amplify those conscientious, it will amplify those fact those uh attributes as well. So fact those uh attributes as well. So fact those uh attributes as well. So what's going to happen is the people who what's going to happen is the people who what's going to happen is the people who already have agency, they're going to already have agency, they're going to already have agency, they're going to use AI to increase their options. use AI to increase their options. use AI to increase their options. They're going to use it, you know, They're going to use it, you know, They're going to use it, you know, they're going to basically use it to do they're going to basically use it to do they're going to basically use it to do more. So they're going to become even more. So they're going to become even more. So they're going to become even more agentic. And the people who lack more agentic. And the people who lack more agentic. And the people who lack agency, they're going to use it to do agency, they're going to use it to do agency, they're going to use it to do things for them. They're going to use AI things for them. They're going to use AI things for them. They're going to use AI to to think think for them to basically to to think think for them to basically to to think think for them to basically going to outsource everything to them. going to outsource everything to them. going to outsource everything to them. So they're going to get even less So they're going to get even less So they're going to get even less agency. So what we're going to see is agency. So what we're going to see is agency. So what we're going to see is the compounding of both agency and its the compounding of both agency and its the compounding of both agency and its opposite. Which is why I think there's opposite. Which is why I think there's opposite. Which is why I think there's going to be this bifocation of, you going to be this bifocation of, you going to be this bifocation of, you know, people who are high agency and low know, people who are high agency and low know, people who are high agency and low agency. We're going to have extremely agency. We're going to have extremely agency. We're going to have extremely high agency people and extremely low high agency people and extremely low high agency people and extremely low agency people who will probably be the agency people who will probably be the agency people who will probably be the majority of humans in the future. Quite majority of humans in the future. Quite majority of humans in the future. Quite a scary prospect. This episode is a scary prospect. This episode is a scary prospect. This episode is brought to you by Gym Shark. You want to brought to you by Gym Shark. You want to brought to you by Gym Shark. 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You will always think you suck. That's good. It's always think you suck. That's good. It's always think you suck. That's good. It's okay to suck compared to your standards. okay to suck compared to your standards. okay to suck compared to your standards. As you grow, so will your standards. It As you grow, so will your standards. It As you grow, so will your standards. It doesn't mean that you actually suck. doesn't mean that you actually suck. doesn't mean that you actually suck. This is similar to the Matthew principle This is similar to the Matthew principle This is similar to the Matthew principle of self-improvement. There's two types of self-improvement. There's two types of self-improvement. There's two types of people. Those who don't know how to of people. Those who don't know how to of people. Those who don't know how to improve their lives and those who don't improve their lives and those who don't improve their lives and those who don't know when to stop. But uh that personal know when to stop. But uh that personal know when to stop. But uh that personal talk paradox thing of um I have talk paradox thing of um I have talk paradox thing of um I have standards. Those standards continue to standards. Those standards continue to standards. Those standards continue to rise as my capacity rises. And now the rise as my capacity rises. And now the rise as my capacity rises. And now the standards always outstrip where I think standards always outstrip where I think standards always outstrip where I think my capacity is at. Well, if you didn't, my capacity is at. Well, if you didn't, my capacity is at. Well, if you didn't, you would never get any better. And it's you would never get any better. And it's you would never get any better. And it's kind of like hideonic adaptation but for kind of like hideonic adaptation but for kind of like hideonic adaptation but for your skill set like a habituation to your skill set like a habituation to your skill set like a habituation to what your performance level is. And um what your performance level is. And um what your performance level is. And um the talkville paradox which I I learned the talkville paradox which I I learned the talkville paradox which I I learned from you as living standards in a from you as living standards in a from you as living standards in a society rise people's expectations of society rise people's expectations of society rise people's expectations of those standards grow more quickly than those standards grow more quickly than those standards grow more quickly than the standards can deliver them to it. So the standards can deliver them to it. So the standards can deliver them to it. So this is why given that you know the this is why given that you know the this is why given that you know the Louis the 14th we have technology and a Louis the 14th we have technology and a Louis the 14th we have technology and a quality of life that he could not quality of life that he could not quality of life that he could not believe. Uh and yet we feel like quality believe. Uh and yet we feel like quality believe. Uh and yet we feel like quality of life is the worst that it could be of life is the worst that it could be of life is the worst that it could be despite all of the material comforts and despite all of the material comforts and despite all of the material comforts and safety and medicine and access to the safety and medicine and access to the safety and medicine and access to the internet and air conditioning and fresh internet and air conditioning and fresh internet and air conditioning and fresh water and stuff that we've got. And uh I water and stuff that we've got. And uh I water and stuff that we've got. And uh I think the same thing happens with think the same thing happens with think the same thing happens with regards to personal growth as well. You regards to personal growth as well. You regards to personal growth as well. You just continue to outstrip your own just continue to outstrip your own just continue to outstrip your own standards over and over again with where standards over and over again with where standards over and over again with where you want to be. you want to be. you want to be. Yeah, absolutely. I I always think of um Yeah, absolutely. I I always think of um Yeah, absolutely. I I always think of um regret as a sign of progress. You know, regret as a sign of progress. You know, regret as a sign of progress. You know, a lot of people think regret is a bad a lot of people think regret is a bad a lot of people think regret is a bad thing. I don't. I actually think thing. I don't. I actually think thing. I don't. I actually think regret's a good thing because what it regret's a good thing because what it regret's a good thing because what it shows is that you've grown basically shows is that you've grown basically shows is that you've grown basically because if you're looking back and because if you're looking back and because if you're looking back and you're seeing an idiot in the past, then you're seeing an idiot in the past, then you're seeing an idiot in the past, then that's a sign that you have grown as a that's a sign that you have grown as a that's a sign that you have grown as a person. You know, you you basically you person. You know, you you basically you person. You know, you you basically you have you have new standards of behavior have you have new standards of behavior have you have new standards of behavior that you had when you did when you that you had when you did when you that you had when you did when you committed whatever act you are committed whatever act you are committed whatever act you are regretting. Uh and so I think you know regretting. Uh and so I think you know regretting. Uh and so I think you know it's all I think so many of these kinds it's all I think so many of these kinds it's all I think so many of these kinds of problems are really just base rate of problems are really just base rate of problems are really just base rate fallacies. You need to understand that fallacies. You need to understand that fallacies. You need to understand that your own standards have risen and that's your own standards have risen and that's your own standards have risen and that's why when you look back and you think oh why when you look back and you think oh why when you look back and you think oh okay you know this this person wasn't okay you know this this person wasn't okay you know this this person wasn't the person that I wanted to be that's the person that I wanted to be that's the person that I wanted to be that's because you you are now a new person you because you you are now a new person you because you you are now a new person you wouldn't be able to do that if you were wouldn't be able to do that if you were wouldn't be able to do that if you were the same person in a sense and again you the same person in a sense and again you the same person in a sense and again you know like yeah our our sort of know like yeah our our sort of know like yeah our our sort of expectations for what is is good do expectations for what is is good do expectations for what is is good do always increase as we improve and we always increase as we improve and we always increase as we improve and we have to we have to manage that we have have to we have to manage that we have have to we have to manage that we have to always account for that because if we to always account for that because if we to always account for that because if we don't, don't, don't, >> we're essentially living in some sort of >> we're essentially living in some sort of >> we're essentially living in some sort of uh weird kind of on on some treadmill uh weird kind of on on some treadmill uh weird kind of on on some treadmill basically. You know, we're basically on basically. You know, we're basically on basically. You know, we're basically on a headonic treadmill. Um the way that I a headonic treadmill. Um the way that I a headonic treadmill. Um the way that I like to look at things is to try to look like to look at things is to try to look like to look at things is to try to look at objective metrics rather than, you at objective metrics rather than, you at objective metrics rather than, you know, whether I'm, you know, using know, whether I'm, you know, using know, whether I'm, you know, using subjective metrics because subjective subjective metrics because subjective subjective metrics because subjective metrics are always moving around. metrics are always moving around. metrics are always moving around. They're always, you know, they're always They're always, you know, they're always They're always, you know, they're always they're very malleable and and on a bad they're very malleable and and on a bad they're very malleable and and on a bad day, you might have certain expectations day, you might have certain expectations day, you might have certain expectations and then on a good day, you have and then on a good day, you have and then on a good day, you have different ones. So I think looking at different ones. So I think looking at different ones. So I think looking at objective metrics are always much much objective metrics are always much much objective metrics are always much much better. So, for example, if you want to better. So, for example, if you want to better. So, for example, if you want to look at um you know, they could be look at um you know, they could be look at um you know, they could be really shallow ones like um if you know, really shallow ones like um if you know, really shallow ones like um if you know, as a writer, if you're a writer like me, as a writer, if you're a writer like me, as a writer, if you're a writer like me, it would be like how many likes do I get it would be like how many likes do I get it would be like how many likes do I get on my Substack post, you know? Um or it on my Substack post, you know? Um or it on my Substack post, you know? Um or it could be something a bit more sort of could be something a bit more sort of could be something a bit more sort of in-depth like um you know uh looking at in-depth like um you know uh looking at in-depth like um you know uh looking at like uh where you know who who likes the like uh where you know who who likes the like uh where you know who who likes the the the piece you know is it is it just the the piece you know is it is it just the the piece you know is it is it just like sick of France who like your your like sick of France who like your your like sick of France who like your your article or is it actually other people article or is it actually other people article or is it actually other people do people that you normally disagree do people that you normally disagree do people that you normally disagree with politically are they liking your with politically are they liking your with politically are they liking your writing because if they do then that's writing because if they do then that's writing because if they do then that's that's a sign that you've really written that's a sign that you've really written that's a sign that you've really written something good you know so there's many something good you know so there's many something good you know so there's many metrics you can use um and again you metrics you can use um and again you metrics you can use um and again you know if you're if you're using know if you're if you're using know if you're if you're using subjective metrics it's like trying subjective metrics it's like trying subjective metrics it's like trying navigate by the light of a shooting navigate by the light of a shooting navigate by the light of a shooting star, you know, it just you're going to star, you know, it just you're going to star, you know, it just you're going to be all over the place. So, you have to be all over the place. So, you have to be all over the place. So, you have to have fixed points. You have to have have fixed points. You have to have have fixed points. You have to have fixed things that you you are aiming fixed things that you you are aiming fixed things that you you are aiming for. Um, and that's way that way you can for. Um, and that's way that way you can for. Um, and that's way that way you can objectively measure where you're going. objectively measure where you're going. objectively measure where you're going. You know, then your own standards are You know, then your own standards are You know, then your own standards are not really going to matter too much not really going to matter too much not really going to matter too much because you've got objective metrics because you've got objective metrics because you've got objective metrics fixed in place. fixed in place. fixed in place. >> Rothbard's law, if a talent comes >> Rothbard's law, if a talent comes >> Rothbard's law, if a talent comes naturally to someone, they assume it's naturally to someone, they assume it's naturally to someone, they assume it's nothing special and instead try to nothing special and instead try to nothing special and instead try to improve at what seems difficult to them. improve at what seems difficult to them. improve at what seems difficult to them. As a result, people often specialize in As a result, people often specialize in As a result, people often specialize in things that they're bad at. things that they're bad at. things that they're bad at. >> We've spoken about this one before. This >> We've spoken about this one before. This >> We've spoken about this one before. This was on on the last on the last episode was on on the last on the last episode was on on the last on the last episode we did. I think this we did. I think this we did. I think this >> relates to it just relates to these two >> relates to it just relates to these two >> relates to it just relates to these two so much, I think. So, it's so good. I so much, I think. So, it's so good. I so much, I think. So, it's so good. I have a friend, I think I told this story have a friend, I think I told this story have a friend, I think I told this story last time, Ryan Long, uh, wonderful at last time, Ryan Long, uh, wonderful at last time, Ryan Long, uh, wonderful at at doing comedy sketches and just so at doing comedy sketches and just so at doing comedy sketches and just so fantastic. But because that comes easily fantastic. But because that comes easily fantastic. But because that comes easily to him, he's decided that other art to him, he's decided that other art to him, he's decided that other art forms are more elevated. was sort of forms are more elevated. was sort of forms are more elevated. was sort of blinded to the there is this natural blinded to the there is this natural blinded to the there is this natural assumption that if something is assumption that if something is assumption that if something is worthwhile it's going to be difficult worthwhile it's going to be difficult worthwhile it's going to be difficult and that I I I wrote this essay a couple and that I I I wrote this essay a couple and that I I I wrote this essay a couple of months ago about the difference of months ago about the difference of months ago about the difference between inputs outputs and outcomes so between inputs outputs and outcomes so between inputs outputs and outcomes so inputs is uh sort of time spent outputs inputs is uh sort of time spent outputs inputs is uh sort of time spent outputs is work done and outcomes is real world is work done and outcomes is real world is work done and outcomes is real world results and people love to focus on the results and people love to focus on the results and people love to focus on the first two not the third one because you first two not the third one because you first two not the third one because you never have to ask the question of never have to ask the question of never have to ask the question of effectiveness but this the Rothbard's effectiveness but this the Rothbard's effectiveness but this the Rothbard's law actually plays a role in this too law actually plays a role in this too law actually plays a role in this too because because because the outcome focused assessment of your the outcome focused assessment of your the outcome focused assessment of your own work gets it forces you to look at own work gets it forces you to look at own work gets it forces you to look at your assumptions and maybe go oh your assumptions and maybe go oh your assumptions and maybe go oh actually I have a natural talent at actually I have a natural talent at actually I have a natural talent at something and this sort of strange something and this sort of strange something and this sort of strange pattern whereby pattern whereby pattern whereby I assumed that I'm not supposed to I assumed that I'm not supposed to I assumed that I'm not supposed to achieve things without sweat and pain achieve things without sweat and pain achieve things without sweat and pain and discomfort and agony and discomfort and agony and discomfort and agony Maybe that's wrong. Maybe that maybe Maybe that's wrong. Maybe that maybe Maybe that's wrong. Maybe that maybe that isn't something that I should try that isn't something that I should try that isn't something that I should try and build my entire worldview around. and build my entire worldview around. and build my entire worldview around. >> Yeah, absolutely. But I think one of the >> Yeah, absolutely. But I think one of the >> Yeah, absolutely. But I think one of the problems and that's sort of highlighted problems and that's sort of highlighted problems and that's sort of highlighted by Rothbard's law is that often really by Rothbard's law is that often really by Rothbard's law is that often really the issue is is that we just never try the issue is is that we just never try the issue is is that we just never try in the first place to do something that in the first place to do something that in the first place to do something that we're good at because we assume by we're good at because we assume by we're good at because we assume by default that we're, you know, it's just default that we're, you know, it's just default that we're, you know, it's just basically a pretty easy thing that basically a pretty easy thing that basically a pretty easy thing that anybody can do, right? So what I would anybody can do, right? So what I would anybody can do, right? So what I would say is to overcome that is to just do say is to overcome that is to just do say is to overcome that is to just do what you love. Right? I know it sounds a what you love. Right? I know it sounds a what you love. Right? I know it sounds a bit corny, right? But ultimately I found bit corny, right? But ultimately I found bit corny, right? But ultimately I found that that is the best horistic for you that that is the best horistic for you that that is the best horistic for you when you want to try and work out what when you want to try and work out what when you want to try and work out what you're what you want to do, do what you you're what you want to do, do what you you're what you want to do, do what you love. And the reason for that is because love. And the reason for that is because love. And the reason for that is because you will even if you're not good at it, you will even if you're not good at it, you will even if you're not good at it, the fact that you enjoy doing it shows the fact that you enjoy doing it shows the fact that you enjoy doing it shows that you will be motivated to do it. that you will be motivated to do it. that you will be motivated to do it. You'll be motivated to get better at it, You'll be motivated to get better at it, You'll be motivated to get better at it, you know. And obviously because our you know. And obviously because our you know. And obviously because our brains are neuroplastic brains are neuroplastic brains are neuroplastic uh if you keep doing something you will uh if you keep doing something you will uh if you keep doing something you will get better at it you know and so I think get better at it you know and so I think get better at it you know and so I think you know even like I would rather do you know even like I would rather do you know even like I would rather do something that I'm bad at but which I something that I'm bad at but which I something that I'm bad at but which I enjoy than do something that I'm good at enjoy than do something that I'm good at enjoy than do something that I'm good at but which I don't enjoy but which I don't enjoy but which I don't enjoy >> because you got to bear in mind you're >> because you got to bear in mind you're >> because you got to bear in mind you're going to do this for the rest of your going to do this for the rest of your going to do this for the rest of your life right this is going to be your life life right this is going to be your life life right this is going to be your life like this is going to be the thing that like this is going to be the thing that like this is going to be the thing that essentially you get out of bed for each essentially you get out of bed for each essentially you get out of bed for each morning. So if you're if you're getting morning. So if you're if you're getting morning. So if you're if you're getting out of bed, you're like, "Oh, I got to out of bed, you're like, "Oh, I got to out of bed, you're like, "Oh, I got to do this." You know, that's not a life do this." You know, that's not a life do this." You know, that's not a life because you're going to be that that because you're going to be that that because you're going to be that that most of your life is going to be that. most of your life is going to be that. most of your life is going to be that. But if you're getting out of bed, you're But if you're getting out of bed, you're But if you're getting out of bed, you're like, "Oh, right. Okay, I got hard like, "Oh, right. Okay, I got hard like, "Oh, right. Okay, I got hard challenge. You know, this is a really challenge. You know, this is a really challenge. You know, this is a really hard challenge. I don't know how I'm hard challenge. I don't know how I'm hard challenge. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm loving the fact going to do it, but I'm loving the fact going to do it, but I'm loving the fact that I get to tackle it." That's how you that I get to tackle it." That's how you that I get to tackle it." That's how you want to live because then your fun is want to live because then your fun is want to live because then your fun is going to be the motivation and that is going to be the motivation and that is going to be the motivation and that is going to ensure that you will get better going to ensure that you will get better going to ensure that you will get better at that thing. Um, and so I think that's at that thing. Um, and so I think that's at that thing. Um, and so I think that's really the way around Rothbard's law, really the way around Rothbard's law, really the way around Rothbard's law, just to do what you enjoy. Forget what just to do what you enjoy. Forget what just to do what you enjoy. Forget what you're good at. It doesn't matter if you're good at. It doesn't matter if you're good at. It doesn't matter if you're young enough or if you're, you you're young enough or if you're, you you're young enough or if you're, you know, if you're young enough in spirit know, if you're young enough in spirit know, if you're young enough in spirit even, you don't even have to be even, you don't even have to be even, you don't even have to be physically young enough. Uh, you know, physically young enough. Uh, you know, physically young enough. Uh, you know, you keep doing something and if you're you keep doing something and if you're you keep doing something and if you're determined, if you really enjoy it, you determined, if you really enjoy it, you determined, if you really enjoy it, you will get better at it. will get better at it. will get better at it. There's a an interesting challenge I There's a an interesting challenge I There's a an interesting challenge I think that people face with think that people face with think that people face with believing that their accomplishments are believing that their accomplishments are believing that their accomplishments are as big as they are. You know, there's as big as they are. You know, there's as big as they are. You know, there's there's certainly some people out there there's certainly some people out there there's certainly some people out there who are BPD, narcissist, full of ego, who are BPD, narcissist, full of ego, who are BPD, narcissist, full of ego, whatever. Uh I think so many people, whatever. Uh I think so many people, whatever. Uh I think so many people, especially in the modern world, are just especially in the modern world, are just especially in the modern world, are just chronically uncertain. Am I okay? Is chronically uncertain. Am I okay? Is chronically uncertain. Am I okay? Is what I'm doing good? How how much more what I'm doing good? How how much more what I'm doing good? How how much more do I need to be until I can rest? I do I need to be until I can rest? I do I need to be until I can rest? I always think about that scene from uh always think about that scene from uh always think about that scene from uh Avengers Endgame where Thanos has done Avengers Endgame where Thanos has done Avengers Endgame where Thanos has done the snap and he's got this cabin on a the snap and he's got this cabin on a the snap and he's got this cabin on a planet that overlooks a lake and he planet that overlooks a lake and he planet that overlooks a lake and he comes and he puts his helmet down and comes and he puts his helmet down and comes and he puts his helmet down and then he sits in this seat. He sits down then he sits in this seat. He sits down then he sits in this seat. He sits down in this sort of rocking chair and he in this sort of rocking chair and he in this sort of rocking chair and he makes this noise and it's kind of like makes this noise and it's kind of like makes this noise and it's kind of like satisfaction but it's much more like satisfaction but it's much more like satisfaction but it's much more like exhaustion. And I often think about um exhaustion. And I often think about um exhaustion. And I often think about um this assumption that at some point there this assumption that at some point there this assumption that at some point there will come a time the provisional life uh will come a time the provisional life uh will come a time the provisional life uh or deferred happiness syndrome or the or deferred happiness syndrome or the or deferred happiness syndrome or the arrival fallacy uh this sense that at arrival fallacy uh this sense that at arrival fallacy uh this sense that at some point but there's a personal growth some point but there's a personal growth some point but there's a personal growth version of this too. There's a personal version of this too. There's a personal version of this too. There's a personal growth version of at some point I can I growth version of at some point I can I growth version of at some point I can I will have done the growing and the will have done the growing and the will have done the growing and the learning and I will be able to rest. learning and I will be able to rest. learning and I will be able to rest. Well, I I don't think that you're ever Well, I I don't think that you're ever Well, I I don't think that you're ever going to stop learning and growing and I going to stop learning and growing and I going to stop learning and growing and I think that you would probably not enjoy think that you would probably not enjoy think that you would probably not enjoy your life if you were to do that. But your life if you were to do that. But your life if you were to do that. But also what that means is you need to also what that means is you need to also what that means is you need to enjoy some of whatever it is that you enjoy some of whatever it is that you enjoy some of whatever it is that you want to do now because it will just be want to do now because it will just be want to do now because it will just be this. It is just going to be this this. It is just going to be this this. It is just going to be this conveyor belt up until the end of time. conveyor belt up until the end of time. conveyor belt up until the end of time. >> Yeah. So um Naval Ravikhan has a >> Yeah. So um Naval Ravikhan has a >> Yeah. So um Naval Ravikhan has a brilliant quote about this which is um brilliant quote about this which is um brilliant quote about this which is um if you can't be happy with a coffee you if you can't be happy with a coffee you if you can't be happy with a coffee you won't be happy with a yacht won't be happy with a yacht won't be happy with a yacht basically and it's just a really great basically and it's just a really great basically and it's just a really great sort of quote because it sums up pretty sort of quote because it sums up pretty sort of quote because it sums up pretty much everything you've been describing much everything you've been describing much everything you've been describing which is you know people are always which is you know people are always which is you know people are always looking for this moment where everything looking for this moment where everything looking for this moment where everything is going to be perfect you know they're is going to be perfect you know they're is going to be perfect you know they're always chasing this this idealized always chasing this this idealized always chasing this this idealized version of reality where they will have version of reality where they will have version of reality where they will have attained all the skills that they want attained all the skills that they want attained all the skills that they want to they will have gotten all the things to they will have gotten all the things to they will have gotten all the things that they want to and then they will that they want to and then they will that they want to and then they will finally be happy. But ultimately, as we finally be happy. But ultimately, as we finally be happy. But ultimately, as we you know, as we spoke of before, real you know, as we spoke of before, real you know, as we spoke of before, real happiness ultimately comes from the happiness ultimately comes from the happiness ultimately comes from the resilience of your mind. If you can find resilience of your mind. If you can find resilience of your mind. If you can find happiness in just something as simple as happiness in just something as simple as happiness in just something as simple as a coffee, then that is enough, right? a coffee, then that is enough, right? a coffee, then that is enough, right? Then that means you will you will be Then that means you will you will be Then that means you will you will be happy later on when you have even more, happy later on when you have even more, happy later on when you have even more, right? Then there needs to be this kind right? Then there needs to be this kind right? Then there needs to be this kind of baseline that you are willing to be of baseline that you are willing to be of baseline that you are willing to be um happy at, right? So you need to be um happy at, right? So you need to be um happy at, right? So you need to be happy even if you have nothing. Because happy even if you have nothing. Because happy even if you have nothing. Because if you're if you're tying your happiness if you're if you're tying your happiness if you're if you're tying your happiness to something, to something, to something, everything is is transient. Everything everything is is transient. Everything everything is is transient. Everything can be broken. Everything can be can be broken. Everything can be can be broken. Everything can be destroyed in this world. And if you tie destroyed in this world. And if you tie destroyed in this world. And if you tie your happiness to that thing and that your happiness to that thing and that your happiness to that thing and that thing gets destroyed, you're going to thing gets destroyed, you're going to thing gets destroyed, you're going to lose the very your whole purpose of lose the very your whole purpose of lose the very your whole purpose of existence. So the only thing the only existence. So the only thing the only existence. So the only thing the only thing that is going to survive all of thing that is going to survive all of thing that is going to survive all of the the slings and arrows of life is to the the slings and arrows of life is to the the slings and arrows of life is to tie your happiness to just the basic tie your happiness to just the basic tie your happiness to just the basic fact of existence. just the fact that fact of existence. just the fact that fact of existence. just the fact that you are alive and you get to live what you are alive and you get to live what you are alive and you get to live what is essentially such an improbable life. is essentially such an improbable life. is essentially such an improbable life. You know, there's a this crazy sort of You know, there's a this crazy sort of You know, there's a this crazy sort of statistic which is that if you look at statistic which is that if you look at statistic which is that if you look at genetically the number of people that genetically the number of people that genetically the number of people that could have been born, you know, the could have been born, you know, the could have been born, you know, the chances of you being born um are like chances of you being born um are like chances of you being born um are like one in n where n is greater than the one in n where n is greater than the one in n where n is greater than the number of atoms in the universe, right? number of atoms in the universe, right? number of atoms in the universe, right? So, it's extraordinarily like improbable So, it's extraordinarily like improbable So, it's extraordinarily like improbable for us to even be here right now for us to even be here right now for us to even be here right now talking. And you know this is assuming talking. And you know this is assuming talking. And you know this is assuming um that we were essentially selected um that we were essentially selected um that we were essentially selected randomly um from from the sort of randomly um from from the sort of randomly um from from the sort of genetic lottery. Uh but like you know we genetic lottery. Uh but like you know we genetic lottery. Uh but like you know we it's so improbable that we're even here. it's so improbable that we're even here. it's so improbable that we're even here. So I try to find happiness in the most So I try to find happiness in the most So I try to find happiness in the most basic things like because then if you basic things like because then if you basic things like because then if you can do that then everything else that can do that then everything else that can do that then everything else that you get is just going to be a bonus you get is just going to be a bonus you get is just going to be a bonus right? But if you tie your happiness to right? But if you tie your happiness to right? But if you tie your happiness to something that you haven't yet achieved something that you haven't yet achieved something that you haven't yet achieved then your entire life's journey up until then your entire life's journey up until then your entire life's journey up until that point is going to be miserable. And that point is going to be miserable. And that point is going to be miserable. And then you can't even be sure that when then you can't even be sure that when then you can't even be sure that when you attain that thing, it's going to be you attain that thing, it's going to be you attain that thing, it's going to be it's actually going to be as good as you it's actually going to be as good as you it's actually going to be as good as you thought it was because often we inflate thought it was because often we inflate thought it was because often we inflate our hopes and dreams beyond reality. So our hopes and dreams beyond reality. So our hopes and dreams beyond reality. So what we think is going to make us happy, what we think is going to make us happy, what we think is going to make us happy, when we finally get it, it doesn't when we finally get it, it doesn't when we finally get it, it doesn't actually make us happy. And this has actually make us happy. And this has actually make us happy. And this has happened to pretty much everybody, you happened to pretty much everybody, you happened to pretty much everybody, you know. So everybody will recognize this. know. So everybody will recognize this. know. So everybody will recognize this. Um so you've got to I think if you want Um so you've got to I think if you want Um so you've got to I think if you want to be happy, you've got to be happy no to be happy, you've got to be happy no to be happy, you've got to be happy no matter what the external world is like. matter what the external world is like. matter what the external world is like. You know, you have to cultivate internal You know, you have to cultivate internal You know, you have to cultivate internal happiness. You have to have that happiness. You have to have that happiness. You have to have that happiness with a coffee and then you'll happiness with a coffee and then you'll happiness with a coffee and then you'll be happy with a yacht. Original position be happy with a yacht. Original position be happy with a yacht. Original position fallacy. Far- leftists favor planned fallacy. Far- leftists favor planned fallacy. Far- leftists favor planned economies because they imagine economies because they imagine economies because they imagine themselves as the planners, not the themselves as the planners, not the themselves as the planners, not the planned. Farrights favor a return to planned. Farrights favor a return to planned. Farrights favor a return to feudalism because they imagine feudalism because they imagine feudalism because they imagine themselves as the lords, not the themselves as the lords, not the themselves as the lords, not the peasants. Many delusional worldviews peasants. Many delusional worldviews peasants. Many delusional worldviews stem from main character syndrome. And I stem from main character syndrome. And I stem from main character syndrome. And I had this from three or four years ago, had this from three or four years ago, had this from three or four years ago, one of our first episodes, the alpha one of our first episodes, the alpha one of our first episodes, the alpha history fantasy. Modern men who are history fantasy. Modern men who are history fantasy. Modern men who are angry at a world they feel has rejected angry at a world they feel has rejected angry at a world they feel has rejected them mistakenly believe that they would them mistakenly believe that they would them mistakenly believe that they would have done better in medieval times. They have done better in medieval times. They have done better in medieval times. They are somehow adamant that the chance of are somehow adamant that the chance of are somehow adamant that the chance of them being Genghask Khn is greater than them being Genghask Khn is greater than them being Genghask Khn is greater than the chance of them being cannon foder the chance of them being cannon foder the chance of them being cannon foder peasant number 1,373 peasant number 1,373 peasant number 1,373 whose flla was sacked and destroyed. whose flla was sacked and destroyed. whose flla was sacked and destroyed. >> Yeah. Yeah. So um so yes so the original >> Yeah. Yeah. So um so yes so the original >> Yeah. Yeah. So um so yes so the original position fallacy uh is really has its position fallacy uh is really has its position fallacy uh is really has its origins in the work of John RS. John origins in the work of John RS. John origins in the work of John RS. John Ross was like a liberal philosopher Ross was like a liberal philosopher Ross was like a liberal philosopher basically a political philosopher and uh basically a political philosopher and uh basically a political philosopher and uh so his his argument was um that so his his argument was um that so his his argument was um that basically people when they when they basically people when they when they basically people when they when they think of like future states they tend to think of like future states they tend to think of like future states they tend to assume that they're going to be amongst assume that they're going to be amongst assume that they're going to be amongst the elites basically. So, you know, and the elites basically. So, you know, and the elites basically. So, you know, and this is true whether you're on the left this is true whether you're on the left this is true whether you're on the left or on the right. You know, if you're on or on the right. You know, if you're on or on the right. You know, if you're on the left, you think you're going to be the left, you think you're going to be the left, you think you're going to be one of the planners. Uh if you if you're one of the planners. Uh if you if you're one of the planners. Uh if you if you're on the right, you think you're going to on the right, you think you're going to on the right, you think you're going to be one of the nobles, right? Um history, be one of the nobles, right? Um history, be one of the nobles, right? Um history, again, history has shown this to be again, history has shown this to be again, history has shown this to be completely false. So for example, if you completely false. So for example, if you completely false. So for example, if you look at all the communist revolutions look at all the communist revolutions look at all the communist revolutions that occurred in the 20th century, you that occurred in the 20th century, you that occurred in the 20th century, you know, whether you're looking at um know, whether you're looking at um know, whether you're looking at um Stalin, Mao, um Paul Pot, Chowoescu, you Stalin, Mao, um Paul Pot, Chowoescu, you Stalin, Mao, um Paul Pot, Chowoescu, you know, all of these people, one of the know, all of these people, one of the know, all of these people, one of the first things that they did was to either first things that they did was to either first things that they did was to either imprison or murder the intellectuals, imprison or murder the intellectuals, imprison or murder the intellectuals, right? So the elites basically right? So the elites basically right? So the elites basically >> is that because they were the ones who >> is that because they were the ones who >> is that because they were the ones who could have come up with ideas to reverse could have come up with ideas to reverse could have come up with ideas to reverse their proposed direction for the their proposed direction for the their proposed direction for the civilization civilization civilization >> basically. Yeah. So if we take one of >> basically. Yeah. So if we take one of >> basically. Yeah. So if we take one of these examples, so if we look at Paul these examples, so if we look at Paul these examples, so if we look at Paul pot, so Paul wanted to um basically pot, so Paul wanted to um basically pot, so Paul wanted to um basically reset history to year zero and he wanted reset history to year zero and he wanted reset history to year zero and he wanted nobody to remember anything from below nobody to remember anything from below nobody to remember anything from below before year zero. Like for him that was before year zero. Like for him that was before year zero. Like for him that was literally the beginning of time. So he literally the beginning of time. So he literally the beginning of time. So he he wanted to completely wipe out all he wanted to completely wipe out all he wanted to completely wipe out all traces of of the past beyond year zero. traces of of the past beyond year zero. traces of of the past beyond year zero. And one thing he knew about And one thing he knew about And one thing he knew about intellectuals was that they read books intellectuals was that they read books intellectuals was that they read books and that they wrote. And obviously and that they wrote. And obviously and that they wrote. And obviously writing and reading are essentially writing and reading are essentially writing and reading are essentially society's memory. So if you can society's memory. So if you can society's memory. So if you can eliminate all the intellectuals then you eliminate all the intellectuals then you eliminate all the intellectuals then you eliminate society's memory. Basically eliminate society's memory. Basically eliminate society's memory. Basically you wipe society's memory and you can you wipe society's memory and you can you wipe society's memory and you can start fresh. You can create a new fresh start fresh. You can create a new fresh start fresh. You can create a new fresh without any bourgeoisi without any of without any bourgeoisi without any of without any bourgeoisi without any of the capitalism uh the ideas of the capitalism uh the ideas of the capitalism uh the ideas of capitalism to to pollute the modern capitalism to to pollute the modern capitalism to to pollute the modern world world world >> would die along with the intellectuals. >> would die along with the intellectuals. >> would die along with the intellectuals. >> Exactly. And there's an irony because >> Exactly. And there's an irony because >> Exactly. And there's an irony because there were a lot of intellectuals that there were a lot of intellectuals that there were a lot of intellectuals that were supporting PPO. They were like they were supporting PPO. They were like they were supporting PPO. They were like they were some of his fiercest you know were some of his fiercest you know were some of his fiercest you know defenders like you know they were the defenders like you know they were the defenders like you know they were the guys that were advocating like writing guys that were advocating like writing guys that were advocating like writing the propaganda for him. They were the the propaganda for him. They were the the propaganda for him. They were the ones who were like you know and this ones who were like you know and this ones who were like you know and this this is not just with Paul. This is with this is not just with Paul. This is with this is not just with Paul. This is with all the communist revolutions. Uh even all the communist revolutions. Uh even all the communist revolutions. Uh even you know western intellectuals many of you know western intellectuals many of you know western intellectuals many of them there was one guy I forgotten his them there was one guy I forgotten his them there was one guy I forgotten his name but he was a western intellectual. name but he was a western intellectual. name but he was a western intellectual. He went to PPO. He was like a he was one He went to PPO. He was like a he was one He went to PPO. He was like a he was one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Cam of the biggest cheerleaders for the Cam of the biggest cheerleaders for the Cam Rouge and he went to um uh basically Rouge and he went to um uh basically Rouge and he went to um uh basically have a meeting with PP pot and he ended have a meeting with PP pot and he ended have a meeting with PP pot and he ended up getting assassinated you know and up getting assassinated you know and up getting assassinated you know and nobody knows who killed him but I mean nobody knows who killed him but I mean nobody knows who killed him but I mean it was probably on Paul's orders but I it was probably on Paul's orders but I it was probably on Paul's orders but I mean a lot of you know so the leftwing mean a lot of you know so the leftwing mean a lot of you know so the leftwing intellectuals believe that if they were intellectuals believe that if they were intellectuals believe that if they were to create a socialist uh sort of society to create a socialist uh sort of society to create a socialist uh sort of society that they would be at the top of society that they would be at the top of society that they would be at the top of society they would be planning things. they they would be planning things. they they would be planning things. they would be, you know, everything would go would be, you know, everything would go would be, you know, everything would go according to their vision of society. according to their vision of society. according to their vision of society. And that's why it's such an intoxicating And that's why it's such an intoxicating And that's why it's such an intoxicating vision. That's why, you know, academics vision. That's why, you know, academics vision. That's why, you know, academics and other elites will tend to, you know, and other elites will tend to, you know, and other elites will tend to, you know, tend towards kind of these kinds of uh tend towards kind of these kinds of uh tend towards kind of these kinds of uh these sort of views of of of a society these sort of views of of of a society these sort of views of of of a society and they want either a socialist uh and they want either a socialist uh and they want either a socialist uh republic if they're, you know, they're republic if they're, you know, they're republic if they're, you know, they're on the left or if they're on the right, on the left or if they're on the right, on the left or if they're on the right, they'll probably advocate for something. they'll probably advocate for something. they'll probably advocate for something. It could be like neo monarchy, you know, It could be like neo monarchy, you know, It could be like neo monarchy, you know, with the the menus molds, Curtis Yavins, with the the menus molds, Curtis Yavins, with the the menus molds, Curtis Yavins, whatever of the world who believe that whatever of the world who believe that whatever of the world who believe that there would be, you know, I'm sure there would be, you know, I'm sure there would be, you know, I'm sure Curtis Yavin believes that if there was Curtis Yavin believes that if there was Curtis Yavin believes that if there was a right-wing revolution that he would be a right-wing revolution that he would be a right-wing revolution that he would be at the right hand side of, you know, the at the right hand side of, you know, the at the right hand side of, you know, the monarch, he would be the adviser. He monarch, he would be the adviser. He monarch, he would be the adviser. He would be the Svengali. Um, but I mean would be the Svengali. Um, but I mean would be the Svengali. Um, but I mean again, you know, uh, usually it's it's again, you know, uh, usually it's it's again, you know, uh, usually it's it's the it's the revolutionaries who end up the it's the revolutionaries who end up the it's the revolutionaries who end up getting murdered themselves, you know, getting murdered themselves, you know, getting murdered themselves, you know, uh, this is true of the French uh, this is true of the French uh, this is true of the French Revolution too as well. you know, the Revolution too as well. you know, the Revolution too as well. you know, the the biggest advocates of the French the biggest advocates of the French the biggest advocates of the French Revolution ended up being the first Revolution ended up being the first Revolution ended up being the first people to get guillotines, you know, or people to get guillotines, you know, or people to get guillotines, you know, or at least they did eventually get at least they did eventually get at least they did eventually get guillotines. So, guillotines. So, guillotines. So, >> you know, all of this stuff, you know, >> you know, all of this stuff, you know, >> you know, all of this stuff, you know, so again, so this is probably going off so again, so this is probably going off so again, so this is probably going off on a tangent anyway, but basically going on a tangent anyway, but basically going on a tangent anyway, but basically going back to the original idea, so it was back to the original idea, so it was back to the original idea, so it was originally John Ru's originally John Ru's originally John Ru's >> idea, right? I kind of adapted it to >> idea, right? I kind of adapted it to >> idea, right? I kind of adapted it to extended it to the the left and right, extended it to the the left and right, extended it to the the left and right, but his idea was just generally that but his idea was just generally that but his idea was just generally that people tend to benefit, they will tend people tend to benefit, they will tend people tend to benefit, they will tend to adopt uh whatever state that they to adopt uh whatever state that they to adopt uh whatever state that they think is going to benefit them. they think is going to benefit them. they think is going to benefit them. they will tend to advocate for whatever state will tend to advocate for whatever state will tend to advocate for whatever state is going to benefit them. And the is going to benefit them. And the is going to benefit them. And the solution that he proposed was um what he solution that he proposed was um what he solution that he proposed was um what he called the veil of ignorance. And I called the veil of ignorance. And I called the veil of ignorance. And I think we might have covered this before, think we might have covered this before, think we might have covered this before, but basically the veil of ignorance is but basically the veil of ignorance is but basically the veil of ignorance is is his belief that the best way to is his belief that the best way to is his belief that the best way to create a society create a society create a society um is to imagine is to begin by um is to imagine is to begin by um is to imagine is to begin by imagining that you are going to be imagining that you are going to be imagining that you are going to be assigned at random a position in the in assigned at random a position in the in assigned at random a position in the in the world that you advocate for. the world that you advocate for. the world that you advocate for. >> Mhm. So if you advocate for a socialist >> Mhm. So if you advocate for a socialist >> Mhm. So if you advocate for a socialist or a communist country, you can't you or a communist country, you can't you or a communist country, you can't you can't do that with the assumption that can't do that with the assumption that can't do that with the assumption that you are going to be uh the planner. You you are going to be uh the planner. You you are going to be uh the planner. You you are going to be you know the you are going to be you know the you are going to be you know the chairman of the party or anything like chairman of the party or anything like chairman of the party or anything like that. It's got to be the assumption that that. It's got to be the assumption that that. It's got to be the assumption that you will be assigned a place within that you will be assigned a place within that you will be assigned a place within that state at random state at random state at random because then this will motivate you to because then this will motivate you to because then this will motivate you to then hedge and ensure that every person then hedge and ensure that every person then hedge and ensure that every person in that state is well looked after in that state is well looked after in that state is well looked after basically. So this this is obviously basically. So this this is obviously basically. So this this is obviously coming from his left liberal perspective coming from his left liberal perspective coming from his left liberal perspective >> to optimize to optimize for the sort of >> to optimize to optimize for the sort of >> to optimize to optimize for the sort of highest average life quality as opposed highest average life quality as opposed highest average life quality as opposed to your selected to your selected to your selected fortunate quality. fortunate quality. fortunate quality. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you know this >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you know this >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you know this was his way of advocating for liberalism was his way of advocating for liberalism was his way of advocating for liberalism because that's essentially what because that's essentially what because that's essentially what liberalism does. Liberalism is based on liberalism does. Liberalism is based on liberalism does. Liberalism is based on the idea that you know you want to the idea that you know you want to the idea that you know you want to ensure that everybody in society ensure that everybody in society ensure that everybody in society >> redistribution. >> redistribution. >> redistribution. >> Yeah. Red red redistribution but to an >> Yeah. Red red redistribution but to an >> Yeah. Red red redistribution but to an extent. It's obviously it's not the same extent. It's obviously it's not the same extent. It's obviously it's not the same as a socialist country which is a as a socialist country which is a as a socialist country which is a socialist country would be complete socialist country would be complete socialist country would be complete redistribution um or or or near total redistribution um or or or near total redistribution um or or or near total whereas liberalism is a is a sort of whereas liberalism is a is a sort of whereas liberalism is a is a sort of middle ground between um socialism and middle ground between um socialism and middle ground between um socialism and sort of uh free market capitalism like sort of uh free market capitalism like sort of uh free market capitalism like completely less aair capitalism. So um completely less aair capitalism. So um completely less aair capitalism. So um it's basically the idea that um liberal it's basically the idea that um liberal it's basically the idea that um liberal li liberals want to maximize freedom but li liberals want to maximize freedom but li liberals want to maximize freedom but they consider um freedom to also be they consider um freedom to also be they consider um freedom to also be freedom from uh for example poverty or freedom from uh for example poverty or freedom from uh for example poverty or from oppression by by higher classes of from oppression by by higher classes of from oppression by by higher classes of of people. So so they're they're they're of people. So so they're they're they're of people. So so they're they're they're similar to libertarians from the basic similar to libertarians from the basic similar to libertarians from the basic point in that they value liberty more point in that they value liberty more point in that they value liberty more than anything. It's just that liberals than anything. It's just that liberals than anything. It's just that liberals tend to have a slightly different tend to have a slightly different tend to have a slightly different definition of what liberty means. Like definition of what liberty means. Like definition of what liberty means. Like for libertarians, liberty is literal. for libertarians, liberty is literal. for libertarians, liberty is literal. It's literally just a freedom, freedom It's literally just a freedom, freedom It's literally just a freedom, freedom to do what you want. Um whereas to do what you want. Um whereas to do what you want. Um whereas liberals, you know, depending on the liberals, you know, depending on the liberals, you know, depending on the specific brand of liberalism, it might specific brand of liberalism, it might specific brand of liberalism, it might be the Jean John Stewart Mill or the be the Jean John Stewart Mill or the be the Jean John Stewart Mill or the John Lockach, you know, kind of John Lockach, you know, kind of John Lockach, you know, kind of liberalism where your liberalism where liberalism where your liberalism where liberalism where your liberalism where your liberty ends uh at the point at your liberty ends uh at the point at your liberty ends uh at the point at which it does harm to somebody else which it does harm to somebody else which it does harm to somebody else where it basically encroaches on their where it basically encroaches on their where it basically encroaches on their liberty sort of thing. So liberty sort of thing. So liberty sort of thing. So >> what about um what about the Coyote's >> what about um what about the Coyote's >> what about um what about the Coyote's law thing? Don't give the government a law thing? Don't give the government a law thing? Don't give the government a power you wouldn't want your political power you wouldn't want your political power you wouldn't want your political political enemies to wield because one political enemies to wield because one political enemies to wield because one day they may well be in charge of it. day they may well be in charge of it. day they may well be in charge of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is the sort of a >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is the sort of a >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is the sort of a kind of pre a preventative to the kind of pre a preventative to the kind of pre a preventative to the original fallacy position. Uh this is original fallacy position. Uh this is original fallacy position. Uh this is what I advocate for personally. I think what I advocate for personally. I think what I advocate for personally. I think that the best way to determine what that the best way to determine what that the best way to determine what policies to support uh are the ones that policies to support uh are the ones that policies to support uh are the ones that will you are the ones that will be not will you are the ones that will be not will you are the ones that will be not harmful if the government were to be harmful if the government were to be harmful if the government were to be taken over by somebody that you despise. taken over by somebody that you despise. taken over by somebody that you despise. basically uh by the worst government basically uh by the worst government basically uh by the worst government that that is possible in in your that that is possible in in your that that is possible in in your country. So um you know if you're on the country. So um you know if you're on the country. So um you know if you're on the left then you should advocate for left then you should advocate for left then you should advocate for policies that would not harm your policies that would not harm your policies that would not harm your interests or the interests of those you interests or the interests of those you interests or the interests of those you advocate for if the government was to advocate for if the government was to advocate for if the government was to suddenly become right-wing and vice suddenly become right-wing and vice suddenly become right-wing and vice versa you know so I think this is it's a versa you know so I think this is it's a versa you know so I think this is it's a pretty sort of straightforward common pretty sort of straightforward common pretty sort of straightforward common sense rule because I think one of the sense rule because I think one of the sense rule because I think one of the problems with people is that they tend problems with people is that they tend problems with people is that they tend to think about the short term at the to think about the short term at the to think about the short term at the expense of the long term. And this is expense of the long term. And this is expense of the long term. And this is one of the fundamental problems with one of the fundamental problems with one of the fundamental problems with human beings and it extends to politics human beings and it extends to politics human beings and it extends to politics as well. People tend to only they tend as well. People tend to only they tend as well. People tend to only they tend to imagine that whoever they're to imagine that whoever they're to imagine that whoever they're supporting is going to be in power supporting is going to be in power supporting is going to be in power forever. And this is why you know when I forever. And this is why you know when I forever. And this is why you know when I see people like right-wingers for see people like right-wingers for see people like right-wingers for example on Twitter um actively example on Twitter um actively example on Twitter um actively suppressing and censoring left-wingers suppressing and censoring left-wingers suppressing and censoring left-wingers after advocating for free speech for so after advocating for free speech for so after advocating for free speech for so long. I just think well you're just long. I just think well you're just long. I just think well you're just shooting yourselves in the foot because shooting yourselves in the foot because shooting yourselves in the foot because this is going to be used against you. this is going to be used against you. this is going to be used against you. the apparatus you're you're you're the apparatus you're you're you're the apparatus you're you're you're creating is going to be used against creating is going to be used against creating is going to be used against you, you know. Um so for example, if you, you know. Um so for example, if you, you know. Um so for example, if like you know if we go with like you know if we go with like you know if we go with >> um if if Trump for instance were to uh >> um if if Trump for instance were to uh >> um if if Trump for instance were to uh pass new laws which were to make it pass new laws which were to make it pass new laws which were to make it illegal for people to criticize him, illegal for people to criticize him, illegal for people to criticize him, this is obviously a hypothetical this is obviously a hypothetical this is obviously a hypothetical situation. This is not something he's situation. This is not something he's situation. This is not something he's actually done, but this is a actually done, but this is a actually done, but this is a hypothetical. You would see people on hypothetical. You would see people on hypothetical. You would see people on the right supporting it. A lot of people the right supporting it. A lot of people the right supporting it. A lot of people on the on the right would support it. on the on the right would support it. on the on the right would support it. They'd be like, "Yes, you know, yeah, They'd be like, "Yes, you know, yeah, They'd be like, "Yes, you know, yeah, you know, stick it to the left, you you know, stick it to the left, you you know, stick it to the left, you know, yeah, you know, trigger the lip know, yeah, you know, trigger the lip know, yeah, you know, trigger the lip tards and all this stuff." Yeah. and tards and all this stuff." Yeah. and tards and all this stuff." Yeah. and they'll be cheering, but then Trump's they'll be cheering, but then Trump's they'll be cheering, but then Trump's not going to be in power forever. And not going to be in power forever. And not going to be in power forever. And then you're going to have probably a then you're going to have probably a then you're going to have probably a Democrat in charge and he's going to Democrat in charge and he's going to Democrat in charge and he's going to have now he's going to have the power to have now he's going to have the power to have now he's going to have the power to do exactly to the right what Trump was do exactly to the right what Trump was do exactly to the right what Trump was doing to the left. So, you know, it's doing to the left. So, you know, it's doing to the left. So, you know, it's basically like the leopards eating your basically like the leopards eating your basically like the leopards eating your own face kind of thing, you know, where own face kind of thing, you know, where own face kind of thing, you know, where uh a lot of this stuff can backfire if uh a lot of this stuff can backfire if uh a lot of this stuff can backfire if you don't think about it on a long you don't think about it on a long you don't think about it on a long enough time scale. enough time scale. enough time scale. >> In other news, this episode is brought >> In other news, this episode is brought >> In other news, this episode is brought to you by RP Strength. This training app to you by RP Strength. This training app to you by RP Strength. 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That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdism That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdism That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdism and modernwisdom at checkout. and modernwisdom at checkout. and modernwisdom at checkout. you see the same thing you see the same thing you see the same thing culturally I suppose as well as culturally I suppose as well as culturally I suppose as well as uh systemically or in in terms of uh systemically or in in terms of uh systemically or in in terms of policies. So, for instance, BLM rioting policies. So, for instance, BLM rioting policies. So, for instance, BLM rioting and pushing as hard as it did, uh, it and pushing as hard as it did, uh, it and pushing as hard as it did, uh, it would surprise me, oh, maybe I'm wrong, would surprise me, oh, maybe I'm wrong, would surprise me, oh, maybe I'm wrong, but 2020 into 2021, January 6th, was but 2020 into 2021, January 6th, was but 2020 into 2021, January 6th, was sort of the year of the riot, and I get sort of the year of the riot, and I get sort of the year of the riot, and I get the sense that the tone had already been the sense that the tone had already been the sense that the tone had already been set by something that seemed to be swept set by something that seemed to be swept set by something that seemed to be swept under the rug. It was done by the mostly under the rug. It was done by the mostly under the rug. It was done by the mostly peaceful and quiet protesters. uh that I peaceful and quiet protesters. uh that I peaceful and quiet protesters. uh that I think legitimated a degree of think legitimated a degree of think legitimated a degree of retribution even if it was only sort of retribution even if it was only sort of retribution even if it was only sort of in the minds of people that decided that in the minds of people that decided that in the minds of people that decided that that was the way that the world works that was the way that the world works that was the way that the world works that you know one stupid action deserves that you know one stupid action deserves that you know one stupid action deserves another stupid action. Uh that you see another stupid action. Uh that you see another stupid action. Uh that you see this too with the way that people behave this too with the way that people behave this too with the way that people behave the sort of language that people use the sort of language that people use the sort of language that people use online. Well, you know, if if your online. Well, you know, if if your online. Well, you know, if if your president gets shot at, then maybe their president gets shot at, then maybe their president gets shot at, then maybe their president can get shot at. And if you president can get shot at. And if you president can get shot at. And if you use a knife, then we can bring a knife, use a knife, then we can bring a knife, use a knife, then we can bring a knife, too. And maybe we bring a gun. And then too. And maybe we bring a gun. And then too. And maybe we bring a gun. And then you bring a gun. And then someone brings you bring a gun. And then someone brings you bring a gun. And then someone brings a bazooka. And you just t the tit fortat a bazooka. And you just t the tit fortat a bazooka. And you just t the tit fortat sort of ever It's kind of like um what's sort of ever It's kind of like um what's sort of ever It's kind of like um what's that? Isn't there a law? Oh, doesn't that? Isn't there a law? Oh, doesn't that? Isn't there a law? Oh, doesn't somebody have an idea? I think Elon's somebody have an idea? I think Elon's somebody have an idea? I think Elon's talked about this where talked about this where talked about this where over time because laws get instantiated over time because laws get instantiated over time because laws get instantiated and rarely repealed and rarely repealed and rarely repealed eventually everything will be made eventually everything will be made eventually everything will be made illegal that there will be a law that illegal that there will be a law that illegal that there will be a law that stops you from doing everything because stops you from doing everything because stops you from doing everything because you you creep this forward one step at a you you creep this forward one step at a you you creep this forward one step at a time. Well, you shouldn't drive when time. Well, you shouldn't drive when time. Well, you shouldn't drive when it's this wet with that car, then with a it's this wet with that car, then with a it's this wet with that car, then with a different car, then with any car, then different car, then with any car, then different car, then with any car, then when it's a bit less wet, then when it's when it's a bit less wet, then when it's when it's a bit less wet, then when it's dry, then when it's, you know, you just dry, then when it's, you know, you just dry, then when it's, you know, you just end up litigating your way out of end up litigating your way out of end up litigating your way out of civilization. And this is kind of the civilization. And this is kind of the civilization. And this is kind of the same sort of thing that if you allow same sort of thing that if you allow same sort of thing that if you allow this behavior and then the behavior can this behavior and then the behavior can this behavior and then the behavior can come back in a little bit more from the come back in a little bit more from the come back in a little bit more from the other side and then the other side, then other side and then the other side, then other side and then the other side, then the other side. It's this game of uh the other side. It's this game of uh the other side. It's this game of uh ever escalating tennis. ever escalating tennis. ever escalating tennis. >> Yeah. I mean so there is um there is a >> Yeah. I mean so there is um there is a >> Yeah. I mean so there is um there is a concept which relates to this called um concept which relates to this called um concept which relates to this called um reciprocal radicalization reciprocal radicalization reciprocal radicalization which is basically where it's it's like which is basically where it's it's like which is basically where it's it's like a game of brinkmanship where you have a game of brinkmanship where you have a game of brinkmanship where you have one group will advocate for something um one group will advocate for something um one group will advocate for something um which then the the other side now feels which then the the other side now feels which then the the other side now feels entitled to and then they'll they'll entitled to and then they'll they'll entitled to and then they'll they'll escalate it even more and then it escalate it even more and then it escalate it even more and then it basically it's like a a repeating basically it's like a a repeating basically it's like a a repeating pattern you know so um it's like the pattern you know so um it's like the pattern you know so um it's like the left and the right almost have this left and the right almost have this left and the right almost have this symbiotic sort of relationship ship symbiotic sort of relationship ship symbiotic sort of relationship ship where you know the excesses of one group where you know the excesses of one group where you know the excesses of one group will fuel the excesses of the other will fuel the excesses of the other will fuel the excesses of the other group, the opposing group. And they're group, the opposing group. And they're group, the opposing group. And they're kind of in they're kind of like they're kind of in they're kind of like they're kind of in they're kind of like they're kind of like what is known as a man beam kind of like what is known as a man beam kind of like what is known as a man beam which is a a mirror when you have two which is a a mirror when you have two which is a a mirror when you have two mirrors facing each other and they kind mirrors facing each other and they kind mirrors facing each other and they kind of infinitely reflect each other. of infinitely reflect each other. of infinitely reflect each other. >> Um it's like you know they're constantly >> Um it's like you know they're constantly >> Um it's like you know they're constantly reinforcing each other in that sense. So reinforcing each other in that sense. So reinforcing each other in that sense. So it's not just with the left and right. it's not just with the left and right. it's not just with the left and right. You also see this amongst terrorists and You also see this amongst terrorists and You also see this amongst terrorists and governments as well. So what will happen governments as well. So what will happen governments as well. So what will happen is that you have terrorists who will is that you have terrorists who will is that you have terrorists who will commit an act of violence and then the commit an act of violence and then the commit an act of violence and then the government will respond to that by government will respond to that by government will respond to that by having a crackdown and by tightening having a crackdown and by tightening having a crackdown and by tightening laws and then the terrorists will use laws and then the terrorists will use laws and then the terrorists will use this as an example of the the government this as an example of the the government this as an example of the the government being tyrannical and so that that would being tyrannical and so that that would being tyrannical and so that that would justify further action against the justify further action against the justify further action against the government and then the government will government and then the government will government and then the government will use further action to justify their own use further action to justify their own use further action to justify their own further action by saying oh these further action by saying oh these further action by saying oh these terrorists are even more dangerous now terrorists are even more dangerous now terrorists are even more dangerous now so we have to enact even tighter laws so we have to enact even tighter laws so we have to enact even tighter laws and so it's like an ever tightening sort and so it's like an ever tightening sort and so it's like an ever tightening sort of uh situation where the excesses of of uh situation where the excesses of of uh situation where the excesses of one group fuel the excesses of the other one group fuel the excesses of the other one group fuel the excesses of the other group and ultimately The only way out of group and ultimately The only way out of group and ultimately The only way out of this is long-term thinking again, you this is long-term thinking again, you this is long-term thinking again, you know, so this is again it's it's it's know, so this is again it's it's it's know, so this is again it's it's it's short-term thinking. It's when people short-term thinking. It's when people short-term thinking. It's when people are engaging in these sort of the are engaging in these sort of the are engaging in these sort of the satiation of their own uh impulses satiation of their own uh impulses satiation of their own uh impulses rather than actually engaging in in rather than actually engaging in in rather than actually engaging in in long-term thinking about the long-term thinking about the long-term thinking about the consequences of their actions. You know, consequences of their actions. You know, consequences of their actions. You know, it's first order first order thinking. it's first order first order thinking. it's first order first order thinking. They're only thinking about the They're only thinking about the They're only thinking about the immediate consequences. They're not immediate consequences. They're not immediate consequences. They're not thinking about the consequences of the thinking about the consequences of the thinking about the consequences of the consequences, let alone the consequences consequences, let alone the consequences consequences, let alone the consequences of the consequences of the consequences, of the consequences of the consequences, of the consequences of the consequences, which is what you really need to be which is what you really need to be which is what you really need to be >> when you're in the political game, you >> when you're in the political game, you >> when you're in the political game, you know. So yeah, know. So yeah, know. So yeah, >> there's a that's short-term long-term >> there's a that's short-term long-term >> there's a that's short-term long-term thing. There's a similarity with Amara's thing. There's a similarity with Amara's thing. There's a similarity with Amara's law. We tend to overestimate the law. We tend to overestimate the law. We tend to overestimate the short-term impact of new tech and short-term impact of new tech and short-term impact of new tech and underestimate the long-term impact underestimate the long-term impact underestimate the long-term impact because hype inflates expectations and because hype inflates expectations and because hype inflates expectations and thus disappointment and thus skepticism. thus disappointment and thus skepticism. thus disappointment and thus skepticism. As such, it's possible for AI to both be As such, it's possible for AI to both be As such, it's possible for AI to both be a bubble and the most transformative a bubble and the most transformative a bubble and the most transformative tech since fire. tech since fire. tech since fire. >> Yeah. So this is an idea that's >> Yeah. So this is an idea that's >> Yeah. So this is an idea that's illustrated by something called the illustrated by something called the illustrated by something called the Gartner hype cycle. Um so if you go on Gartner hype cycle. Um so if you go on Gartner hype cycle. Um so if you go on Wikipedia it will tell you that the Wikipedia it will tell you that the Wikipedia it will tell you that the Gartner hype cycle is pseudocience. It's Gartner hype cycle is pseudocience. It's Gartner hype cycle is pseudocience. It's not supported by evidence. This is not supported by evidence. This is not supported by evidence. This is nonsense. The Gartner hype cycle cycle nonsense. The Gartner hype cycle cycle nonsense. The Gartner hype cycle cycle is not supposed to be a scientific um is not supposed to be a scientific um is not supposed to be a scientific um sort of like you know study of what sort of like you know study of what sort of like you know study of what actually happens. What it's supposed to actually happens. What it's supposed to actually happens. What it's supposed to be is a general rule of thumb and it be is a general rule of thumb and it be is a general rule of thumb and it does fit most major technology major does fit most major technology major does fit most major technology major technological um sort of developments. technological um sort of developments. technological um sort of developments. One of the problems with Wikipedia is One of the problems with Wikipedia is One of the problems with Wikipedia is it's it often straw man's ideas before it's it often straw man's ideas before it's it often straw man's ideas before discredit or trying to discredit them. discredit or trying to discredit them. discredit or trying to discredit them. So I wouldn't pay attention to the the So I wouldn't pay attention to the the So I wouldn't pay attention to the the Wikipedia article of the Gartner hype Wikipedia article of the Gartner hype Wikipedia article of the Gartner hype cycle. Basically what the Gartner hype cycle. Basically what the Gartner hype cycle. Basically what the Gartner hype cycle states is that you have when you cycle states is that you have when you cycle states is that you have when you have a new technology you have like have a new technology you have like have a new technology you have like massive surge in hype right massive surge in hype right massive surge in hype right >> where everybody's incentivized to sort >> where everybody's incentivized to sort >> where everybody's incentivized to sort of um just kind of get on the hype of um just kind of get on the hype of um just kind of get on the hype bandwagon basically because it's a new bandwagon basically because it's a new bandwagon basically because it's a new technology and people are speculating technology and people are speculating technology and people are speculating that they're sort of they're they're that they're sort of they're they're that they're sort of they're they're spitballing they're speculating about spitballing they're speculating about spitballing they're speculating about where this could go and people get where this could go and people get where this could go and people get excited about it. people write clickbait excited about it. people write clickbait excited about it. people write clickbait articles about it. And so this obviously articles about it. And so this obviously articles about it. And so this obviously inflates people's expectations. And so inflates people's expectations. And so inflates people's expectations. And so then the next stage of the hype cycle is then the next stage of the hype cycle is then the next stage of the hype cycle is where people start to realize, hang on a where people start to realize, hang on a where people start to realize, hang on a second, the hype was was hype. You know, second, the hype was was hype. You know, second, the hype was was hype. You know, they start to sort of realize that the they start to sort of realize that the they start to sort of realize that the reality of the new technology is not reality of the new technology is not reality of the new technology is not quite what people were saying it was quite what people were saying it was quite what people were saying it was going to be. And this causes a kind of going to be. And this causes a kind of going to be. And this causes a kind of backfire effect where people temper backfire effect where people temper backfire effect where people temper their expectations by overcorrecting. So their expectations by overcorrecting. So their expectations by overcorrecting. So what they do is they assume that because what they do is they assume that because what they do is they assume that because the where where the technology is the where where the technology is the where where the technology is actually headed is is is slightly actually headed is is is slightly actually headed is is is slightly different from where it was where the different from where it was where the different from where it was where the hype claimed it was headed. Therefore hype claimed it was headed. Therefore hype claimed it was headed. Therefore they were wrong about the technology they were wrong about the technology they were wrong about the technology completely and therefore the technology completely and therefore the technology completely and therefore the technology is worthless. So then you get the you is worthless. So then you get the you is worthless. So then you get the you get people now from the opposite side get people now from the opposite side get people now from the opposite side arguing for the opposite thing saying it arguing for the opposite thing saying it arguing for the opposite thing saying it was all hype. You know this is humans was all hype. You know this is humans was all hype. You know this is humans are stupid. Don't listen to humans. This are stupid. Don't listen to humans. This are stupid. Don't listen to humans. This technology is just going to fizz out. technology is just going to fizz out. technology is just going to fizz out. It's just crap. You know, so people It's just crap. You know, so people It's just crap. You know, so people naturally react very strongly by naturally react very strongly by naturally react very strongly by overcorrecting. That's what humans tend overcorrecting. That's what humans tend overcorrecting. That's what humans tend to do. So you get a lot of articles to do. So you get a lot of articles to do. So you get a lot of articles arguing for the opposite. But then what arguing for the opposite. But then what arguing for the opposite. But then what will happen is everybody will go, "Oh, will happen is everybody will go, "Oh, will happen is everybody will go, "Oh, okay. Well, yeah, so the hype was just okay. Well, yeah, so the hype was just okay. Well, yeah, so the hype was just crap. So let's just get on with our crap. So let's just get on with our crap. So let's just get on with our lives." And they'll forget about the lives." And they'll forget about the lives." And they'll forget about the technology. And then it's when they technology. And then it's when they technology. And then it's when they forget about the technology, that's when forget about the technology, that's when forget about the technology, that's when the technology will start to change the the technology will start to change the the technology will start to change the world. Because even though the world. Because even though the world. Because even though the technology is no longer in popular technology is no longer in popular technology is no longer in popular discourse, it has been adopted by the discourse, it has been adopted by the discourse, it has been adopted by the sort of people at the frontier of sort of people at the frontier of sort of people at the frontier of development. the industries where it can development. the industries where it can development. the industries where it can actually be used and these are usually actually be used and these are usually actually be used and these are usually not exciting industries. They're usually not exciting industries. They're usually not exciting industries. They're usually things like um you know um sort of bank things like um you know um sort of bank things like um you know um sort of bank sort of you know sort of doing financial sort of you know sort of doing financial sort of you know sort of doing financial financial wizardry which is not really financial wizardry which is not really financial wizardry which is not really something that interests mo most people something that interests mo most people something that interests mo most people right so it will usually be it will have right so it will usually be it will have right so it will usually be it will have very limited um visibility for a long very limited um visibility for a long very limited um visibility for a long time but then the developments in those time but then the developments in those time but then the developments in those industries will gradually compound until industries will gradually compound until industries will gradually compound until we have something that is really really we have something that is really really we have something that is really really amazing and AI is a great example of amazing and AI is a great example of amazing and AI is a great example of this right so um for a you know so one this right so um for a you know so one this right so um for a you know so one of the guys one of the main pioneers of of the guys one of the main pioneers of of the guys one of the main pioneers of um AI is a guy called Marvin Minsky. He um AI is a guy called Marvin Minsky. He um AI is a guy called Marvin Minsky. He was a major figure in the development of was a major figure in the development of was a major figure in the development of neural networks. neural networks. neural networks. >> I think it was in the 1970s. He said >> I think it was in the 1970s. He said >> I think it was in the 1970s. He said that in around 7 to 8 years uh we will that in around 7 to 8 years uh we will that in around 7 to 8 years uh we will have human level intelligence in neural have human level intelligence in neural have human level intelligence in neural networks. Basically, he said something networks. Basically, he said something networks. Basically, he said something like that. Anyway, and obviously this is like that. Anyway, and obviously this is like that. Anyway, and obviously this is completely absurd because, you know, by completely absurd because, you know, by completely absurd because, you know, by the 1980s, you know, we had really, the 1980s, you know, we had really, the 1980s, you know, we had really, really basic neural networks and that really basic neural networks and that really basic neural networks and that continued into the '90s and everybody continued into the '90s and everybody continued into the '90s and everybody had kind of by then just forgotten about had kind of by then just forgotten about had kind of by then just forgotten about the hype. Everybody was like, "Ah, you the hype. Everybody was like, "Ah, you the hype. Everybody was like, "Ah, you know, this this whole neural network know, this this whole neural network know, this this whole neural network stuff's crap. Nothing's going to stuff's crap. Nothing's going to stuff's crap. Nothing's going to happen." You know, it was all just hype. happen." You know, it was all just hype. happen." You know, it was all just hype. Everybody forgot about it apart from a Everybody forgot about it apart from a Everybody forgot about it apart from a small number of researchers and a small small number of researchers and a small small number of researchers and a small number of people who were using um you number of people who were using um you number of people who were using um you know convolutional neural networks to know convolutional neural networks to know convolutional neural networks to like do things like imaging and things like do things like imaging and things like do things like imaging and things like that. like that. like that. >> What happened is suddenly you have chat >> What happened is suddenly you have chat >> What happened is suddenly you have chat GBT boom you know in like 2022 and this GBT boom you know in like 2022 and this GBT boom you know in like 2022 and this seemed to have come out of nowhere but seemed to have come out of nowhere but seemed to have come out of nowhere but it didn't actually come out of nowhere. it didn't actually come out of nowhere. it didn't actually come out of nowhere. um the technology for it, the the um the technology for it, the the um the technology for it, the the transformer architecture was actually transformer architecture was actually transformer architecture was actually developed by Google DeepMind and this developed by Google DeepMind and this developed by Google DeepMind and this was um a few years before chat GPT uh was um a few years before chat GPT uh was um a few years before chat GPT uh sort of accommodated it and actually sort of accommodated it and actually sort of accommodated it and actually like you know began to uh develop it like you know began to uh develop it like you know began to uh develop it themselves. Um but like before that themselves. Um but like before that themselves. Um but like before that nobody really cared like for for 30 nobody really cared like for for 30 nobody really cared like for for 30 years nobody really cared in in the years nobody really cared in in the years nobody really cared in in the mainstream about about neural networks. mainstream about about neural networks. mainstream about about neural networks. So this is a good good example of it but So this is a good good example of it but So this is a good good example of it but the thing is is that the Gartner hype the thing is is that the Gartner hype the thing is is that the Gartner hype cycle continues. So it's not just you cycle continues. So it's not just you cycle continues. So it's not just you have this one hype cycle and then it's have this one hype cycle and then it's have this one hype cycle and then it's over. it it often repeats itself. So over. it it often repeats itself. So over. it it often repeats itself. So we're going to see it again with things we're going to see it again with things we're going to see it again with things like world models now I think where like world models now I think where like world models now I think where there's there's there's >> what are world models? >> what are world models? >> what are world models? >> So world models are like a stepping >> So world models are like a stepping >> So world models are like a stepping stone towards AGI. A world model is stone towards AGI. A world model is stone towards AGI. A world model is where you have um things like physics where you have um things like physics where you have um things like physics implemented into your LLM. Um it's not implemented into your LLM. Um it's not implemented into your LLM. Um it's not really an LLM anymore because it can do really an LLM anymore because it can do really an LLM anymore because it can do so many other things. It's it's more so many other things. It's it's more so many other things. It's it's more like a video model but it's a video like a video model but it's a video like a video model but it's a video model that actually has real world model that actually has real world model that actually has real world physics. Uh, and at the moment, Google physics. Uh, and at the moment, Google physics. Uh, and at the moment, Google is probably best placed for this because is probably best placed for this because is probably best placed for this because they have um they have all the data. they have um they have all the data. they have um they have all the data. They've got the real-time data through They've got the real-time data through They've got the real-time data through search, they've got video data through search, they've got video data through search, they've got video data through YouTube, and then they've got like YouTube, and then they've got like YouTube, and then they've got like they've got spatial data as well through they've got spatial data as well through they've got spatial data as well through um uh Google Street View and all that um uh Google Street View and all that um uh Google Street View and all that kind of stuff. So, they'll probably they kind of stuff. So, they'll probably they kind of stuff. So, they'll probably they they have actually got the best uh the they have actually got the best uh the they have actually got the best uh the world model at the moment called Genie world model at the moment called Genie world model at the moment called Genie Genie 3. But basically a world model is Genie 3. But basically a world model is Genie 3. But basically a world model is basically when an LLM or or an AI can basically when an LLM or or an AI can basically when an LLM or or an AI can model the world basically literally you model the world basically literally you model the world basically literally you know that's why it's called a world know that's why it's called a world know that's why it's called a world model. It can model the world. So it can model. It can model the world. So it can model. It can model the world. So it can understand things like physics. So it understand things like physics. So it understand things like physics. So it can understand collisions. It can can understand collisions. It can can understand collisions. It can understand gravity. It can understand um understand gravity. It can understand um understand gravity. It can understand um uh the way that fluids move like water uh the way that fluids move like water uh the way that fluids move like water and things like that. And we have we and things like that. And we have we and things like that. And we have we have like a kind of we have a similacrum have like a kind of we have a similacrum have like a kind of we have a similacrum of that in video generation. But video of that in video generation. But video of that in video generation. But video generations don't understand physics. generations don't understand physics. generations don't understand physics. they're just copying the physics of you they're just copying the physics of you they're just copying the physics of you know films and you know other stuff like know films and you know other stuff like know films and you know other stuff like that whereas a world model gen genuinely that whereas a world model gen genuinely that whereas a world model gen genuinely understands the physics and so it can understands the physics and so it can understands the physics and so it can that's the first step towards creating that's the first step towards creating that's the first step towards creating AGI because then you can actually AGI because then you can actually AGI because then you can actually activate AI in the in the physical activate AI in the in the physical activate AI in the in the physical reality and this is probably going to be reality and this is probably going to be reality and this is probably going to be the next hype cycle it's already begun the next hype cycle it's already begun the next hype cycle it's already begun there's been a lot of hype around G3 there's been a lot of hype around G3 there's been a lot of hype around G3 what will probably happen is we'll have what will probably happen is we'll have what will probably happen is we'll have something called the trough of something called the trough of something called the trough of disillusionment which is the next of the disillusionment which is the next of the disillusionment which is the next of the um the the Gartner hype cycle and then um the the Gartner hype cycle and then um the the Gartner hype cycle and then when everybody's forgotten about world when everybody's forgotten about world when everybody's forgotten about world models We'll start to see real world models We'll start to see real world models We'll start to see real world role models emerge. role models emerge. role models emerge. >> Wow. There's a I I was looking at I've >> Wow. There's a I I was looking at I've >> Wow. There's a I I was looking at I've spoken to a lot of uh behavioral spoken to a lot of uh behavioral spoken to a lot of uh behavioral genetics guys and girls on the podcast. genetics guys and girls on the podcast. genetics guys and girls on the podcast. I've got Katherine Paige Harden coming I've got Katherine Paige Harden coming I've got Katherine Paige Harden coming back on for her new book next week. And back on for her new book next week. And back on for her new book next week. And um I'd always wondered there's an um I'd always wondered there's an um I'd always wondered there's an equivalent basically with over time equivalent basically with over time equivalent basically with over time things changing and the Wilson effect things changing and the Wilson effect things changing and the Wilson effect feels like a biological equivalent of feels like a biological equivalent of feels like a biological equivalent of what we're talking about with regards to what we're talking about with regards to what we're talking about with regards to the hype. So this is from you. Heritable the hype. So this is from you. Heritable the hype. So this is from you. Heritable traits like IQ and personality become traits like IQ and personality become traits like IQ and personality become more heritable with age because as you more heritable with age because as you more heritable with age because as you mature, you become more independent and mature, you become more independent and mature, you become more independent and free to be who you really are. Many free to be who you really are. Many free to be who you really are. Many heritability studies find that nurtures heritability studies find that nurtures heritability studies find that nurtures influence is stronger only because they influence is stronger only because they influence is stronger only because they never see that nature's influence is never see that nature's influence is never see that nature's influence is longer. longer. longer. >> Yeah. So historically um the the sort of >> Yeah. So historically um the the sort of >> Yeah. So historically um the the sort of so the social sciences and the field of so the social sciences and the field of so the social sciences and the field of genetics has pretty consistently genetics has pretty consistently genetics has pretty consistently underestimated the heritability of a lot underestimated the heritability of a lot underestimated the heritability of a lot of traits. And just to give an a very of traits. And just to give an a very of traits. And just to give an a very recent example I think just a couple of recent example I think just a couple of recent example I think just a couple of days ago um there was a new study days ago um there was a new study days ago um there was a new study published u which I retweeted onto my published u which I retweeted onto my published u which I retweeted onto my timeline which basically shows um so timeline which basically shows um so timeline which basically shows um so initially there was the belief that initially there was the belief that initially there was the belief that heritability of uh lifespan is between heritability of uh lifespan is between heritability of uh lifespan is between 20 and 25% And this new study has found 20 and 25% And this new study has found 20 and 25% And this new study has found that it's actually closer to 50%. And that it's actually closer to 50%. And that it's actually closer to 50%. And this is a pretty important, you know, this is a pretty important, you know, this is a pretty important, you know, this is obviously a pretty important this is obviously a pretty important this is obviously a pretty important finding because this is the heritability finding because this is the heritability finding because this is the heritability of your lifespan, how long you're going of your lifespan, how long you're going of your lifespan, how long you're going to live. to live. to live. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And um so there's been a massive >> And um so there's been a massive >> And um so there's been a massive underestimation of lifespan in terms of underestimation of lifespan in terms of underestimation of lifespan in terms of the heritability of it. And I think this the heritability of it. And I think this the heritability of it. And I think this is not fully explained by the Wilson is not fully explained by the Wilson is not fully explained by the Wilson effect, but I think the Wilson effect is effect, but I think the Wilson effect is effect, but I think the Wilson effect is a contributor to this. And it's a contributor to this. And it's a contributor to this. And it's basically what it is is because studies basically what it is is because studies basically what it is is because studies tend to be quite short-term. Genetic tend to be quite short-term. Genetic tend to be quite short-term. Genetic studies tend to be quite short term. So studies tend to be quite short term. So studies tend to be quite short term. So they will tend to tr obviously you it's they will tend to tr obviously you it's they will tend to tr obviously you it's very hard to track a human being very hard to track a human being very hard to track a human being throughout their entire life. So usually throughout their entire life. So usually throughout their entire life. So usually longitudinal studies uh in genetics will longitudinal studies uh in genetics will longitudinal studies uh in genetics will tend to sort of follow people for a few tend to sort of follow people for a few tend to sort of follow people for a few years you know. So usually 3 3 years 5 years you know. So usually 3 3 years 5 years you know. So usually 3 3 years 5 years and that's not enough time to years and that's not enough time to years and that's not enough time to really understand the effects of these really understand the effects of these really understand the effects of these genes because a lot of these genes only genes because a lot of these genes only genes because a lot of these genes only become apparent later in your life. you become apparent later in your life. you become apparent later in your life. you know people tend to sort of um there's a know people tend to sort of um there's a know people tend to sort of um there's a kind of like what happens is that kind of like what happens is that kind of like what happens is that there's a masking effect. So what early there's a masking effect. So what early there's a masking effect. So what early in your life the effects of genes are in your life the effects of genes are in your life the effects of genes are masked by your upbringing by your masked by your upbringing by your masked by your upbringing by your environment. So for example, if you are environment. So for example, if you are environment. So for example, if you are genetically predisposed to love reading, genetically predisposed to love reading, genetically predisposed to love reading, but in your life your parents never buy but in your life your parents never buy but in your life your parents never buy you any books and instead they buy you a you any books and instead they buy you a you any books and instead they buy you a PlayStation, right? You're going to PlayStation, right? You're going to PlayStation, right? You're going to spend your childhood playing playing spend your childhood playing playing spend your childhood playing playing PlayStation instead of reading books, PlayStation instead of reading books, PlayStation instead of reading books, which is what you really love to do. which is what you really love to do. which is what you really love to do. It's only when you get older that you It's only when you get older that you It's only when you get older that you start that you're able to follow your start that you're able to follow your start that you're able to follow your own natural inclinations, which are own natural inclinations, which are own natural inclinations, which are books. And so it's only when you're books. And so it's only when you're books. And so it's only when you're older that you have the power to buy older that you have the power to buy older that you have the power to buy books. And therefore it's only when books. And therefore it's only when books. And therefore it's only when you're older that your genetic you're older that your genetic you're older that your genetic predisposition predisposition predisposition predisposition to books becomes predisposition to books becomes predisposition to books becomes apparent. apparent. apparent. >> And so this is a very simple example but >> And so this is a very simple example but >> And so this is a very simple example but this is very common I think now in a lot this is very common I think now in a lot this is very common I think now in a lot of studies where a lot of there's a lot of studies where a lot of there's a lot of studies where a lot of there's a lot of reassessment that needs to be done of reassessment that needs to be done of reassessment that needs to be done due to these studies being so so due to these studies being so so due to these studies being so so shortterm. You know we really we really shortterm. You know we really we really shortterm. You know we really we really need to study people at different stages need to study people at different stages need to study people at different stages of their life. We need to study them of their life. We need to study them of their life. We need to study them when they're children. We need to study when they're children. We need to study when they're children. We need to study them when they're adults and we need to them when they're adults and we need to them when they're adults and we need to study them when they're elderly in order study them when they're elderly in order study them when they're elderly in order to actually have a good understanding of to actually have a good understanding of to actually have a good understanding of the influence of genes versus the influence of genes versus the influence of genes versus environment. environment. environment. >> I saw there was a line from you an >> I saw there was a line from you an >> I saw there was a line from you an Emerson one. People do not seem to Emerson one. People do not seem to Emerson one. People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world realize that their opinion of the world realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. is also a confession of their character. is also a confession of their character. And Dylan O Sullivan that I know we're And Dylan O Sullivan that I know we're And Dylan O Sullivan that I know we're both [ __ ] huge fans of he both [ __ ] huge fans of he both [ __ ] huge fans of he >> is great. Yeah, >> is great. Yeah, >> is great. Yeah, >> he's so good, dude. Uh he says nothing >> he's so good, dude. Uh he says nothing >> he's so good, dude. Uh he says nothing gives you a clearer look into someone gives you a clearer look into someone gives you a clearer look into someone than how they misinterpret things. Every than how they misinterpret things. Every than how they misinterpret things. Every misinterpretation is a confession. And misinterpretation is a confession. And misinterpretation is a confession. And it feels like the Emerson and Dylan are it feels like the Emerson and Dylan are it feels like the Emerson and Dylan are kind of agreeing with each other here. kind of agreeing with each other here. kind of agreeing with each other here. Their opinion of the world is a Their opinion of the world is a Their opinion of the world is a confession of their character and their confession of their character and their confession of their character and their misinterpretation of the world is also a misinterpretation of the world is also a misinterpretation of the world is also a confession. confession. confession. >> Yeah. So to give you another quote from >> Yeah. So to give you another quote from >> Yeah. So to give you another quote from Naval, Naval, Naval, uh I think he said something like um uh I think he said something like um uh I think he said something like um it's almost always possible to be both it's almost always possible to be both it's almost always possible to be both honest and optimistic. honest and optimistic. honest and optimistic. Right? So what I find is that if you are Right? So what I find is that if you are Right? So what I find is that if you are optimistic is not because you're deluded optimistic is not because you're deluded optimistic is not because you're deluded necessarily. It's often just because of necessarily. It's often just because of necessarily. It's often just because of your personality because you choose to your personality because you choose to your personality because you choose to see the good rather than choosing to see see the good rather than choosing to see see the good rather than choosing to see the bad. You know, it's often just a the bad. You know, it's often just a the bad. You know, it's often just a choice. It is literally just often a choice. It is literally just often a choice. It is literally just often a choice, you know. Um, it's something choice, you know. Um, it's something choice, you know. Um, it's something that I' I've really has really sort of that I' I've really has really sort of that I' I've really has really sort of become an important force in my life become an important force in my life become an important force in my life now. This understanding that I can now. This understanding that I can now. This understanding that I can actually choose how I perceive things. I actually choose how I perceive things. I actually choose how I perceive things. I can choose whether I see things as a can choose whether I see things as a can choose whether I see things as a good or a bad thing depending on the good or a bad thing depending on the good or a bad thing depending on the facts that I select and the way that I facts that I select and the way that I facts that I select and the way that I interpret them. And I'm aware that yeah, interpret them. And I'm aware that yeah, interpret them. And I'm aware that yeah, okay, this this often requires me to okay, this this often requires me to okay, this this often requires me to ignore certain things, but we're always ignore certain things, but we're always ignore certain things, but we're always ignoring things anyway. So, it's not ignoring things anyway. So, it's not ignoring things anyway. So, it's not like I'm doing anything wrong here. Uh, like I'm doing anything wrong here. Uh, like I'm doing anything wrong here. Uh, you know, attention is selective. you know, attention is selective. you know, attention is selective. Attention is like empathy. It's a Attention is like empathy. It's a Attention is like empathy. It's a spotlight. You shine it on some things spotlight. You shine it on some things spotlight. You shine it on some things and by doing so you cast everything else and by doing so you cast everything else and by doing so you cast everything else in darkness. And so when you are in darkness. And so when you are in darkness. And so when you are pessimistic, this is not a sign that you pessimistic, this is not a sign that you pessimistic, this is not a sign that you see reality more clearly as a lot of see reality more clearly as a lot of see reality more clearly as a lot of pessimists like to believe. It's pessimists like to believe. It's pessimists like to believe. It's actually a sign that you are choosing to actually a sign that you are choosing to actually a sign that you are choosing to shine your spotlight on [ __ ] rather than shine your spotlight on [ __ ] rather than shine your spotlight on [ __ ] rather than on diamonds, you know, to put it simply, on diamonds, you know, to put it simply, on diamonds, you know, to put it simply, right? You know, you have a choice where right? You know, you have a choice where right? You know, you have a choice where you shine your spotlight, right? And you shine your spotlight, right? And you shine your spotlight, right? And ultimately, it's a case of what are you ultimately, it's a case of what are you ultimately, it's a case of what are you looking at? What what are you perceiving looking at? What what are you perceiving looking at? What what are you perceiving when you see something? What details are when you see something? What details are when you see something? What details are you picking out? And this is why when I you picking out? And this is why when I you picking out? And this is why when I when I see miserable people now, I don't when I see miserable people now, I don't when I see miserable people now, I don't see realists. I just see miserable see realists. I just see miserable see realists. I just see miserable people. I see people who are unhappy people. I see people who are unhappy people. I see people who are unhappy inside who are essentially externalizing inside who are essentially externalizing inside who are essentially externalizing their unhappiness by choosing to see the their unhappiness by choosing to see the their unhappiness by choosing to see the absolute worst in everything. Right? And absolute worst in everything. Right? And absolute worst in everything. Right? And this is why, you know, I don't have much this is why, you know, I don't have much this is why, you know, I don't have much tolerance now for people who just keep tolerance now for people who just keep tolerance now for people who just keep complaining about things because to me complaining about things because to me complaining about things because to me it it that's just a way to dig your hole it it that's just a way to dig your hole it it that's just a way to dig your hole deeper. Basically, you're just making deeper. Basically, you're just making deeper. Basically, you're just making life worse for yourself by choosing to life worse for yourself by choosing to life worse for yourself by choosing to see the worst. But there's no solutions see the worst. But there's no solutions see the worst. But there's no solutions in complaining. If you just keep in complaining. If you just keep in complaining. If you just keep complaining, all you're doing is just complaining, all you're doing is just complaining, all you're doing is just you're just make you're convincing you're just make you're convincing you're just make you're convincing yourself that the world is bad and the yourself that the world is bad and the yourself that the world is bad and the world doesn't need to be bad. You don't world doesn't need to be bad. You don't world doesn't need to be bad. You don't need to lie to to see the good. need to lie to to see the good. need to lie to to see the good. >> But surely some in some in some >> But surely some in some in some >> But surely some in some in some situations things are bad. Is it not situations things are bad. Is it not situations things are bad. Is it not fair to accurately represent that and fair to accurately represent that and fair to accurately represent that and and reflect it so that maybe people try and reflect it so that maybe people try and reflect it so that maybe people try to change the thing that's bad and to change the thing that's bad and to change the thing that's bad and shouldn't be bad? shouldn't be bad? shouldn't be bad? >> No. No. You should always recognize that >> No. No. You should always recognize that >> No. No. You should always recognize that things can be improved. Always. Yeah. things can be improved. Always. Yeah. things can be improved. Always. Yeah. Absolutely. But this doesn't mean that Absolutely. But this doesn't mean that Absolutely. But this doesn't mean that you should focus on the bad and have the you should focus on the bad and have the you should focus on the bad and have the bad as the only thing, you know, to to bad as the only thing, you know, to to bad as the only thing, you know, to to to focus on. There's always two sides to to focus on. There's always two sides to to focus on. There's always two sides to the story. So the way I look at it is the story. So the way I look at it is the story. So the way I look at it is yes, you should always be um cognizant yes, you should always be um cognizant yes, you should always be um cognizant of problems. You I'm not saying that you of problems. You I'm not saying that you of problems. You I'm not saying that you should not see problems. You should should not see problems. You should should not see problems. You should choose not to see problems. You should choose not to see problems. You should choose not to see problems. You should see the problems, but instead of see the problems, but instead of see the problems, but instead of focusing on on complaining about them, focusing on on complaining about them, focusing on on complaining about them, you should try to focus on solutions you should try to focus on solutions you should try to focus on solutions instead. You know, what can I do rather instead. You know, what can I do rather instead. You know, what can I do rather than make this better? So this actually than make this better? So this actually than make this better? So this actually fits in with another of my ideas. So fits in with another of my ideas. So fits in with another of my ideas. So there's a concept called the Stockdale there's a concept called the Stockdale there's a concept called the Stockdale paradox. And the Stockdale paradox is paradox. And the Stockdale paradox is paradox. And the Stockdale paradox is quite an interesting one because it's quite an interesting one because it's quite an interesting one because it's sort of like um it's basically taken sort of like um it's basically taken sort of like um it's basically taken from a guy called uh James Stockdale. He from a guy called uh James Stockdale. He from a guy called uh James Stockdale. He was an admiral, right? And he survived was an admiral, right? And he survived was an admiral, right? And he survived nearly 8 years of torture and isolation nearly 8 years of torture and isolation nearly 8 years of torture and isolation in the Hanoi Hilton basically which was in the Hanoi Hilton basically which was in the Hanoi Hilton basically which was so called because it was one of the most so called because it was one of the most so called because it was one of the most brutal camps um in in North Vietnam brutal camps um in in North Vietnam brutal camps um in in North Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Uh he was during the Vietnam War. Uh he was during the Vietnam War. Uh he was basically a P for quite a long time. He basically a P for quite a long time. He basically a P for quite a long time. He Yeah. So for 8 years and so basically um Yeah. So for 8 years and so basically um Yeah. So for 8 years and so basically um so what he observed while he was there so what he observed while he was there so what he observed while he was there was that there were people who were was that there were people who were was that there were people who were optimists and there were people who were optimists and there were people who were optimists and there were people who were pessimists and they both both groups pessimists and they both both groups pessimists and they both both groups ended up suffering hard and and many of ended up suffering hard and and many of ended up suffering hard and and many of them died very early. Um so the them died very early. Um so the them died very early. Um so the optimists would basically believe that optimists would basically believe that optimists would basically believe that they were going to be released from the they were going to be released from the they were going to be released from the jail u by Christmas and then when jail u by Christmas and then when jail u by Christmas and then when Christmas didn't come it would be Easter Christmas didn't come it would be Easter Christmas didn't come it would be Easter and then you know Easter didn't come. So and then you know Easter didn't come. So and then you know Easter didn't come. So they would keep hoping and eventually they would keep hoping and eventually they would keep hoping and eventually their hope just ran out and they just their hope just ran out and they just their hope just ran out and they just kind of gave up on life and they some of kind of gave up on life and they some of kind of gave up on life and they some of them like you know they just lost the them like you know they just lost the them like you know they just lost the will to live because they had hoped and will to live because they had hoped and will to live because they had hoped and their hopes had been destroyed. But then their hopes had been destroyed. But then their hopes had been destroyed. But then on the other hand there were the on the other hand there were the on the other hand there were the pessimists who were people who just kind pessimists who were people who just kind pessimists who were people who just kind of believed that their their station was of believed that their their station was of believed that their their station was completely you know irredeemable and completely you know irredeemable and completely you know irredeemable and there was no hope in the first place. So there was no hope in the first place. So there was no hope in the first place. So obviously they had no motivation to obviously they had no motivation to obviously they had no motivation to improve. What Stockdale found was what improve. What Stockdale found was what improve. What Stockdale found was what got him through the eight years was not got him through the eight years was not got him through the eight years was not by being an optimist, not by being a by being an optimist, not by being a by being an optimist, not by being a pessimist, but actually by practicing a pessimist, but actually by practicing a pessimist, but actually by practicing a kind of kind of kind of optimistic pessimism. M optimistic pessimism. M optimistic pessimism. M >> and this was essentially so what it was >> and this was essentially so what it was >> and this was essentially so what it was is that basically the key to achieving is that basically the key to achieving is that basically the key to achieving this kind of paradoxical state of mind this kind of paradoxical state of mind this kind of paradoxical state of mind >> is to accept that bad outcomes are >> is to accept that bad outcomes are >> is to accept that bad outcomes are indeed a real possibility but rather indeed a real possibility but rather indeed a real possibility but rather than let that possibility crush your than let that possibility crush your than let that possibility crush your hopes you can develop hope in your hopes you can develop hope in your hopes you can develop hope in your ability to deal with those problems by ability to deal with those problems by ability to deal with those problems by preparing for them. preparing for them. preparing for them. >> So by acknowledging and confronting the >> So by acknowledging and confronting the >> So by acknowledging and confronting the harshest potential outcomes you make harshest potential outcomes you make harshest potential outcomes you make them less of a problem and less of a them less of a problem and less of a them less of a problem and less of a reason for negativity. reason for negativity. reason for negativity. So, so you know, so what I'm saying is So, so you know, so what I'm saying is So, so you know, so what I'm saying is basically healthy optimism arises basically healthy optimism arises basically healthy optimism arises through a kind of practical pessimism. through a kind of practical pessimism. through a kind of practical pessimism. It's it's not the blind idealism that It's it's not the blind idealism that It's it's not the blind idealism that everything is always going to turn out everything is always going to turn out everything is always going to turn out fine, fine, fine, >> but rather the self-belief that you can >> but rather the self-belief that you can >> but rather the self-belief that you can deal with things no matter how they turn deal with things no matter how they turn deal with things no matter how they turn out. And that's essentially what out. And that's essentially what out. And that's essentially what confidence is. Confidence is not the confidence is. Confidence is not the confidence is. Confidence is not the belief that everything is going to be belief that everything is going to be belief that everything is going to be all right. Confidence is the belief that all right. Confidence is the belief that all right. Confidence is the belief that you will be able to handle with things you will be able to handle with things you will be able to handle with things even if they're not okay. Right? So even if they're not okay. Right? So even if they're not okay. Right? So you'll be a you'll always be able to you'll be a you'll always be able to you'll be a you'll always be able to deal with the eventualities and the way deal with the eventualities and the way deal with the eventualities and the way that you do that is by acknowledging the that you do that is by acknowledging the that you do that is by acknowledging the worst case scenario but preparing for worst case scenario but preparing for worst case scenario but preparing for any scenario essentially you know so you any scenario essentially you know so you any scenario essentially you know so you you don't necessarily have to be you don't necessarily have to be you don't necessarily have to be pessimistic you don't have to be pessimistic you don't have to be pessimistic you don't have to be optimistic you fuse the two so this is optimistic you fuse the two so this is optimistic you fuse the two so this is obviously this is a bit separate from obviously this is a bit separate from obviously this is a bit separate from from the idea of seeing the beauty and from the idea of seeing the beauty and from the idea of seeing the beauty and things but it's this is obviously a very things but it's this is obviously a very things but it's this is obviously a very healthy attitude to have um with regards healthy attitude to have um with regards healthy attitude to have um with regards to just you know half glass half full or to just you know half glass half full or to just you know half glass half full or glass half empty just understand that glass half empty just understand that glass half empty just understand that glass is half, right? That's it. You glass is half, right? That's it. You glass is half, right? That's it. You don't need to It doesn't need to be half don't need to It doesn't need to be half don't need to It doesn't need to be half full. Doesn't need to be half empty. full. Doesn't need to be half empty. full. Doesn't need to be half empty. It's just half. You know It's just half. You know It's just half. You know >> the uh George's George's line from the >> the uh George's George's line from the >> the uh George's George's line from the agency book is uh some people look at a agency book is uh some people look at a agency book is uh some people look at a glass and see it as half full. Some look glass and see it as half full. Some look glass and see it as half full. Some look at a glass and see it as half empty. at a glass and see it as half empty. at a glass and see it as half empty. What you should do is realize that you What you should do is realize that you What you should do is realize that you are the tap. are the tap. are the tap. And that's his line. That's his line And that's his line. That's his line And that's his line. That's his line around agency, which is where wherever around agency, which is where wherever around agency, which is where wherever this is, you can actually pour into it. this is, you can actually pour into it. this is, you can actually pour into it. Um, yeah, it's a the the the Stockdale Um, yeah, it's a the the the Stockdale Um, yeah, it's a the the the Stockdale thing is interesting because I can see thing is interesting because I can see thing is interesting because I can see how how how people preparing for the bad would quite people preparing for the bad would quite people preparing for the bad would quite easily cause them to tumble down the easily cause them to tumble down the easily cause them to tumble down the rabbit hole of ruminating about it and rabbit hole of ruminating about it and rabbit hole of ruminating about it and worrying about it and woe is me and worrying about it and woe is me and worrying about it and woe is me and concept creep and now I've got a concept creep and now I've got a concept creep and now I've got a pathology and I've got multiple pathology and I've got multiple pathology and I've got multiple personality disorder or you know that is personality disorder or you know that is personality disorder or you know that is the genesis of it. But um I the genesis of it. But um I the genesis of it. But um I >> ultimately it comes down to it >> ultimately it comes down to it >> ultimately it comes down to it ultimately comes down to ultimately comes down to ultimately comes down to >> how you interpret it, right? So there is >> how you interpret it, right? So there is >> how you interpret it, right? So there is you know yes you you could you could you know yes you you could you could you know yes you you could you could just go down this rabbit hole where just go down this rabbit hole where just go down this rabbit hole where you're just constantly thinking of the you're just constantly thinking of the you're just constantly thinking of the worst case scenario but that's only worst case scenario but that's only worst case scenario but that's only going to happen if you haven't found a going to happen if you haven't found a going to happen if you haven't found a solution. You you know if you have a solution. You you know if you have a solution. You you know if you have a solution if you have developed a solution if you have developed a solution if you have developed a solution to the worst case scenario then solution to the worst case scenario then solution to the worst case scenario then it's no longer going to really dwell on it's no longer going to really dwell on it's no longer going to really dwell on your mind you know because you already your mind you know because you already your mind you know because you already have the solution. And that's ultimately have the solution. And that's ultimately have the solution. And that's ultimately what what I do. Like if I you know like what what I do. Like if I you know like what what I do. Like if I you know like if I was to say come on this podcast and if I was to say come on this podcast and if I was to say come on this podcast and I would have the worst case scenario I would have the worst case scenario I would have the worst case scenario where I would say something you know where I would say something you know where I would say something you know let's say I said the nword or something let's say I said the nword or something let's say I said the nword or something like that you know I mean like that that like that you know I mean like that that like that you know I mean like that that if if you're somebody who um is really if if you're somebody who um is really if if you're somebody who um is really anxious you'd be worrying about anxious you'd be worrying about anxious you'd be worrying about something like that so long you know something like that so long you know something like that so long you know you'd be like oh my god you know what if you'd be like oh my god you know what if you'd be like oh my god you know what if I say the wrong thing you know that I say the wrong thing you know that I say the wrong thing you know that would just cause you to be a nervous would just cause you to be a nervous would just cause you to be a nervous wreck and it would probably just make wreck and it would probably just make wreck and it would probably just make for a very bad episode. But if you have for a very bad episode. But if you have for a very bad episode. But if you have a solution, right, if you actually have a solution, right, if you actually have a solution, right, if you actually have um trained yourself to not uh engage in um trained yourself to not uh engage in um trained yourself to not uh engage in these kinds of intrusive thoughts that these kinds of intrusive thoughts that these kinds of intrusive thoughts that might cause you to say those words or might cause you to say those words or might cause you to say those words or you know, if you have a way to sort of you know, if you have a way to sort of you know, if you have a way to sort of style it out, you know, then you don't style it out, you know, then you don't style it out, you know, then you don't then it's not going to be a problem. Do then it's not going to be a problem. Do then it's not going to be a problem. Do you know what I mean? It's it's the same you know what I mean? It's it's the same you know what I mean? It's it's the same with anything like anxiety is really with anything like anxiety is really with anything like anxiety is really it's really a result of you not having a it's really a result of you not having a it's really a result of you not having a solution to the worst case scenario. But solution to the worst case scenario. But solution to the worst case scenario. But as long as you have that solution, as long as you have that solution, as long as you have that solution, you're not going to have the you I mean, you're not going to have the you I mean, you're not going to have the you I mean, you might still have have anxiety if you might still have have anxiety if you might still have have anxiety if you're a, you know, if you're a neurotic you're a, you know, if you're a neurotic you're a, you know, if you're a neurotic person. person. person. >> But that the thing, >> But that the thing, >> But that the thing, >> well, you're not going to have any less >> well, you're not going to have any less >> well, you're not going to have any less if you've got a solution. And what's if you've got a solution. And what's if you've got a solution. And what's that line about? Anxiety hates a moving that line about? Anxiety hates a moving that line about? Anxiety hates a moving target. Action is the antidote to target. Action is the antidote to target. Action is the antidote to anxiety. anxiety. anxiety. >> Yeah. That's it. >> Yeah. That's it. >> Yeah. That's it. >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Look, Gwinder, >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Look, Gwinder, >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Look, Gwinder, dude, you're a legend. Uh, I appreciate dude, you're a legend. Uh, I appreciate dude, you're a legend. Uh, I appreciate you coming on. This this always rules. you coming on. This this always rules. you coming on. This this always rules. It's one of my favorite episodes. Where It's one of my favorite episodes. Where It's one of my favorite episodes. Where should people go to check out all of the should people go to check out all of the should people go to check out all of the stuff that you've got going on? Yeah. So stuff that you've got going on? Yeah. So stuff that you've got going on? Yeah. So main place is uh my blog which is just main place is uh my blog which is just main place is uh my blog which is just ginda.blog. Um and you can also find me ginda.blog. Um and you can also find me ginda.blog. Um and you can also find me on Twitter g_s_bogel on Twitter g_s_bogel on Twitter g_s_bogel or just type my name into Google and I'm or just type my name into Google and I'm or just type my name into Google and I'm sure it will come up. Uh yeah. sure it will come up. Uh yeah. sure it will come up. Uh yeah. >> Heck. >> Heck. >> Heck. >> Yeah. And cheers. Been a pleasure. Yeah. >> Yeah. And cheers. Been a pleasure. Yeah. >> Yeah. And cheers. Been a pleasure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> It's always a good one. Uh keep writing >> It's always a good one. Uh keep writing >> It's always a good one. Uh keep writing cuz we got more to talk about. cuz we got more to talk about. cuz we got more to talk about. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. You made >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. You made >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. You made it to the end of an episode. Your brain it to the end of an episode. Your brain it to the end of an episode. Your brain has not been completely destroyed by the has not been completely destroyed by the has not been completely destroyed by the internet just yet. Here's another one internet just yet. Here's another one internet just yet. Here's another one that you should watch. that you should watch. that you should watch. Come on.