10 Money Lessons You Must Know in Your 20s

Key Takeaway

Start a 30-minute money check-in today: list every asset, every debt, and last month’s spending; then choose one automatic transfer into a retirement or investment account. The episode’s central message is that wealth is less about income or quick wins than a repeatable system: live below your means, avoid debt, invest consistently, and stay patient long enough for compounding to work. Make the system boring enough to sustain—not exciting enough to abandon.

Episode Overview

Jay Shetty speaks with Dave Ramsey about rebuilding a healthy relationship with money, challenging debt-driven financial norms, and defining wealth through net worth rather than income. Ramsey argues that everyday millionaires tend to follow simple, patient systems: budgeting, avoiding debt, investing steadily, paying off their homes, and practicing generosity.

Full Transcript

Transcript of 10 Money Lessons You Must Know in Your 20s from On Purpose. Auto-generated from episode audio; may contain minor errors.

You're not bad with money. They simply never taught you how to use it. They taught you how to win it, not how to grow it. They taught you to spend it, but not to invest it. You were taught to chase it, not how to make it work for you. They didn't teach you about investing, only about surviving. And it's not your fault you don't know it , but it's your power to learn it. Today's episode deals with something I think is very important. It's everything I wish I had known about money when I was 20.

Whether you're 20, 30, 40, or 50 years old, this episode applies because I believe financial education is something we all learn too late. It's something some of us never learn. I'm sure you've had some challenges with this. Whether it's dealing with credit card payments , debt, understanding how to earn or grow money, or knowing if I need extra income. How many income streams do I have? Do I really know what I'm spending my money on? Do I know where I'm wasting my money? And it's likely that if you've gotten this far, there's a part of you that has also avoided money.

I suppose there's a part of you that doesn't like looking at your bank statement. There's a part of you that might want to keep it to yourself and not see it . There's a part of you that doesn't check how much you've saved because you're afraid . You're afraid to look at that number. It's difficult to face. And this is the first thing I want to tell you. It's not your fault. They never taught you how to do it. It's not something you should know how to do.

I think we all feel like we're growing up and suddenly we're paying rent, taxes, and we have to understand what a mortgage is. We have no idea how that works. Everything has its interests. And suddenly you grow up and say, "Okay, wait a minute." "Nobody taught me this at school." Even if you studied economics in school, you didn't know how the real-world economy worked. Even if you studied finance at university, you didn't necessarily know how to start and run a business. It doesn't work that way.

So I want you to take the pressure off yourself, and I want this to be the beginning of changing your mindset about money. I want this to be the beginning of transforming your relationship with money. What were your mindsets? What was your relationship with money like when it wasn't where it is today? I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs and we were taught that you can achieve it, that you just have to leave the cave, hunt something and drag it home. I mean that you can go out there and create something in this world, and that the free enterprise system is not broken; It 's tough, it's difficult, but you can do it.

So, uh, I believed it and I still believe it. And I went and got my real estate license when I turned 18. And when I graduated from college, I started buying and selling properties and, starting from scratch, I became rich, at least by the standards of a kid from Antioch, Tennessee. I ended up with about $4 million in real estate and a little over $1 million in net worth. He was earning a couple of hundred thousand a year. Now , that was in 1982. It was $20,000 a month coming from the neighborhood where I grew up.

That's what it means to be rich. So we were having a lot of fun, but I had borrowed too much money. And the short version of the story is that the bank was sold to another bank. They demanded our promissory notes. We were doing " home remodeling" before Chip and Joanna were born. So, you know, the bank reclaimed our promissory notes and we spent the next two and a half years of our lives losing everything we had. We were sued and had our assets seized, and with a newborn baby and a marriage hanging by a thread, we had the opportunity to start over after bankruptcy.

And it was, it was brutal. It was heartbreaking. It was something that defined my life. And it was, at that moment , the worst thing that had ever happened to me . The worst trauma. Not being able to keep your word, having your integrity shattered by your stupidity, and well, I come from a culture of honor and it's just a horrible thing. And, obviously now, 30 years later, I realize that it's the best thing that ever happened to me because I learned a completely new way of looking at money.

Well, I realized that borrowing money was a bad plan, and since then we've been able to back up that idea with lots of data and millions of lives: that "if you don't have bills to pay, you have money" and you can build some wealth. So we started a debt-free life at 28 , and I'm 62 now, so it's worked out pretty well. What are the key principles, as you mentioned, that one needs to learn in school or from the beginning in order to have a healthy relationship with one's finances and money?

Well, there is a level of mythology that has spread about money in our culture, which was propagated with an intention. Frankly, it was all ...if I were a bank, I'd teach everyone that they need a credit score. And the reason I would teach them that they need a credit score. And the way to get a credit score is by borrowing money from me. So you can pay me back and increase your score, so you can then ask me for more money. So that you can pay me.

So that you can increase your score and ask me to lend you more money, to pay me back and thus raise your score again. It's a great plan if you're a bank. And well, the idea spread that the FICO score is now like a biblical truth or something, and it's not. It's a banking program to get people to borrow money. But now, what has happened with some financial education programs in schools is that they teach you how to increase your FICO score, because that has been accepted as the norm rather than an actual fact.

Well, it's accepted as a fact even though it isn't. So what we 've done, our antidote, would be to say: okay, let's teach people how to live on a budget and how to do it. We are going to teach them to live on less than they earn, a concept that Congress fails to grasp. We're going to teach them to be generous, excessively generous. And we're going to teach them how to save and invest by harnessing the power of compound interest. And these things are independent of the banking community .

Therefore, we must not allow the lending community and sectors of the financial industry that have their own interests to infiltrate this curriculum. Basically, many teachers have been indoctrinated by the culture that this is how life is supposed to be lived. You'll always have a car payment coming in. You need to have a credit card. You can't be a student without a student loan, you know. And then they bring that into the classroom because they themselves have been, uh, raised that way. But, uh, when you analyze and say, well, teaching has an agenda, then you have to stop and think that there is a villain in this story.

So instead, we need to be, uh, teaching the basic premise of common sense. And the good news is that we've already implemented our high school curriculum in about 48% of high schools in the United States . So we're waking some people up here and there. We're causing a bit of a stir, but certainly the banks and that kind of people aren't happy about it because we're teaching people not to borrow money. Tell us a little bit about that question and why you take the approach you do to answer it.

Well, it's an important place to start because it's one of the reasons we wrote the book. We have a group of people in the United States, I call them " hope thieves", who say it is impossible to win now. It's impossible to win. There are too many systemic problems. There are too many broken things in the culture and the economy; it's the typical phrase that the small man cannot get ahead. And yet, I kept running into first- generation millionaires everywhere. They started with nothing. They did not inherit his money.

And then I started meeting those who had followed our "baby steps"—that's why we call them baby-step millionaires— who became millionaires. And I thought, I have all this data and anecdotal evidence on one side that it's possible, and then I have these hope thieves telling people they can't do it and stealing their hope. So I thought, you know, the first thing we have to do is fix that because it's the old Henry Ford phrase. If you think you can or you think you can't , you're probably right.

And, uh, you have to, if I think I can be in the NBA, I'm wrong. Can't . Understood? There is no possibility. I don't have the physical skills. I'm an older guy with a belly. It's not going to happen. TRUE? So, that's ridiculous. But when it comes to the passage of time, can I have a successful marriage? Although perhaps there isn't one in your family tree. Can I raise good children over time even if most of my family doesn't turn out that way? Can you break that cycle?

And if you do n't believe you can, you won't take the steps to do the hard work to succeed in that area, that compartment, that department of your life. And money is no exception, and money is particularly strange in the spiritual, in that, uh, in this area of ​​belief, because it will simply run away from you. You can't catch it, you know, if you don't believe, because you wo n't do the things that require sacrifice. You will not live like anyone else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

There is no reason for a farmer to go out to work in the sun, plow the field, remove the stumps and stones, and then plant corn if he did not think that the corn would sprout after doing that. That would be absurd. Only a crazy person would do something they didn't believe would work. So you have to believe first. And so, what we try to do is incorporate emotional behavior, uh, data from other people, and math, and any kind of lens through which I can make you look so that you believe you can do it.

I know you can do it, but I have to convince you that you can before we can move on to tactical steps. What would you say are the mindsets or traps that keep people from having money, where you have to convince people that they can? What are those things that keep us in that mindset? I believe that we become, number one, those around us. Uh, there's no doubt about that. So you have to be careful. And I'm not talking about being snobbish with anyone. No, I'm kind to everyone.

I'll talk to anyone about anything, I'm happy. Uh, but I'm talking about your group, the people who are your inner circle. Who do you hang out with? Your income will approach theirs over time. Uh, your physical condition, if everyone is overweight, you're going to be overweight. If they take care of their bodies, you will take care of yours. If they have good marriages, you'll have a good marriage...you'll become like those you surround yourself with. You'll even have an accent like theirs, you know, and you'll read the books they read.

So, number one, you need to be in a community of successful people who believe it's possible, who understand that it's difficult, and who will encourage you when you're going through a tough time. I mean, some of us have had a tough couple of years here. Many of us, you know, so you need to have friends in your corner who say, " Come on, champ! You can do this. You can do it. You've got my back, buddy ." And that's very different from growing up in a neighborhood where my parents told me, "You can do it." But many of the kids I hung out with, their parents told them, "Well, the average man can't get ahead.

You'll always have to pay for a car. You're stuck." People like us, you know, people with a southern accent, hicks and country folk, we don't get ahead. We just, you know, flip the bird to the system and move on. And you can do that regardless of your racial or cultural background. There is a group of people who declare themselves to be stuck. But there is also a group of people within that same community, in that same tribe. It is a smaller group that declares that it is possible to be free.

It is possible to prosper. It's possible. And their victims are victors. And the good thing is that, once you start to understand that, anyone can make that decision. Can you define the difference between a millionaire and a " baby-steps" millionaire? Because I think this is something that many people struggle with. Well, first it's good to say that the definition of millionaire is not a Dave Ramsey definition. This is an accounting definition. Personal finance has been taught for decades before I was born. It's a mathematical formula.

It's a very simple formula. Assets minus liabilities equals net worth. What you own minus what you owe equals your net worth. When your net worth is one million dollars or more. When what you own minus what you owe is a million or more , you are a millionaire. Well, I don't feel like a millionaire. It's not a feeling. I don't think anyone should be a millionaire. It is not a moral construct. I don't think it's enough. Maybe it isn't, but it's still a million. It's still what it is.

This is a mathematical formula. And when you get to that point, the way you become a billionaire, a billionaire, is with your assets minus your liabilities. It's not your income. You can earn a million dollars a year and not be a millionaire. You can earn $30,000 a year and be a millionaire. So yes, it's a net worth balance transaction. It is an accounting function. It is not subject to negotiation. Now we can discuss all sorts of things about what a million is, whether it is enough, and the moral construction around it; That's a valid argument, but first you have to admit and simply say that he's a millionaire.

I simply don't feel anything, I don't care that you're a millionaire. You know, I spoke to a guy on my show today. She just finished paying off her house, it's worth $900,000 and its value has increased a lot. He's from Denver and the market has skyrocketed, and he says, "I don't feel like a millionaire," because he has several hundred thousand in his 401k. So, he has a net worth of one million dollars. I told him, "It 's not a feeling." And he says, "I don't feel like I've won it." It doesn't matter.

I do n't care where you got it from. It's still a million. It's still that , you really have to go back to that. So, once we do that, we say, "Okay, so where do millionaires come from?" And several years ago, we conducted the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. Um, my friend Tom Stanley , who has since passed away, wrote a book in 1992 called "The Millionaire Next Door ." And he studied millionaires in 1992, many years ago. Uh, and their sample size in the research was 750 millionaires.

And the people who didn't like the conclusions of his study used the sample size to criticize it and say that it wasn't valid. Now, those of us who know statistics know that that is a valid sample size. That, you know, that fits with the numbers. But we decided, as part of the study's public relations, to make 7,500 millionaires, 10 times what was needed to be statistically significant. 750 is statistically significant. And then we just overdid it and ended up doing 10,167 before we finished. So we did the biggest study yet and this is what we found.

79% of millionaires in the United States, solid research, data, it's not a hunch , it's not a political agenda, it's not the opinion of your broke brother-in-law on Thanksgiving, nor what he thinks of the rich, none of that data. 79 % inherited exactly zero. Wow. Eight out of 10. An additional 5% inherited a small amount such as $1,500 or $5,000. Mathematically, that couldn't have made them millionaires. Another 5% inherited substantial money, such as $100,000 or $200,000, after they were already millionaires. So five and five and 79.

We're at 89%. Nine out of 10 millionaires in the United States did not become millionaires through inheritance. Wow, that's huge. So, that's a millionaire. And I find them everywhere in these 30 years of doing this. And it screams at me that this is possible. And they're not rocket scientists. They're not rock stars. They're not the 1% of millionaires in the United States whose names you'd recognize, I mean , they're on TV, or they're rock stars, or they're in the NBA or the MLB or something like that, you know, they're into that stuff .

But 99% of them are teachers and police officers, you know, and their number one career or category was engineer. Then we started hearing from people; I've been teaching this for 30 years, getting people out of debt, putting them on a budget so they can invest in their 401k and pay off their house. And they were following our basic steps and becoming millionaires. So we had first- generation millionaires, whom we called everyday millionaires. And then we had millionaires who had become millionaires by following our process. And that process is called the basic steps.

So it's a nuanced subset of what a millionaire is. What are some of the first things they need to start thinking about? Dave, let's say it out loud again, the techie or whatever. What we're teaching won't make you a multimillionaire. Mathematically, it won't happen. He won't. These were millionaires. Net worth from one to 10 million dollars. OK? So, it's a lot of money, but it's not a billion. These people don't have private jets. They don't have six houses. They don't have a Lamborghini. Those are multi-millionaires who have that .

And many of them are people who are well-known names, the Gateses, the Buffetts, or whatever that kind of thing is. And that's it, but that's a different world. In this world, the way to get to the first of 10 million turns out to be that 80%, a little over 83%, had two things that appeared almost always. Number one, they funded their 401k in good mutual funds and their Roth IRAs in good mutual funds over an extended period, from 12 to 17 years. It's not that long, but it was a long time.

It's longer than 5 minutes. And it's not about getting rich quick. It's the tortoise, not the hare. So, from 12 to 17 years old. During that time, the average millionaire paid off their house in 10.2 years. And what we have is a man or woman with a net worth of 1.5 million, where there is a paid-off house worth 500,000 dollars and a million dollars in their retirement accounts. And that's pretty much all it was, those two things, you know, the power of compound interest, growing your mutual funds, earning on your 401k, and just being consistent, consistent, consistent.

Never stop, never panic when the market falls. Just constant, constant, constant, constant. Just keep doing it. Just keep going, it's boring. It 's not attractive at all. You're not going to be on the cover of Fast Company magazine for paying your mortgage, you know. Nobody knows you did it. It's a bit boring. But here you are sitting with a paid-off house and a million dollars. I think you'll be fine. So that's what most of them did. Some of them were millionaire farmers, enough to warrant mentioning them here.

It means that they didn't inherit, but were farmers who bought land and then bought more and more land, and that land alone came to be worth more than a million dollars. That wasn't so unusual. We saw several of those too. But what we discovered was that methodical people are the ones who did this, whether they were millionaires by basic steps or simply millionaires. And so, the number one career was engineering. Number two was an accountant. Number three was a teacher. Number four was an executive. And number five was a lawyer.

The doctors didn't even make the top five. Doctors ranked sixth. And now, if you even count doctors, if you count each and every one of them, okay, engineer, accountant, teacher, executive, and lawyer, each and every one of them is a systems person. They believe in a set of principles, and when you follow those principles, you get a result. You reap what you sow; If you plant corn, don't be surprised when corn grows. In each of those cases, they live in a world of cause and effect.

They believe in systems, they believe in processes. Understand the system, work with the system. If you build a bridge this way, it will stand. If you create a lesson plan in this way and teach, the student learns. As you know, everyone knows that there is...you follow a set of decorum, laws, and processes in court, or the judge jails you for contempt. You have to do it. And so, all these are process people, so it turns out it 's a process. How do we develop that muscle?

Because I think that's what's blocking us: we want it to be attractive, we want it to be fast, we want it to look a certain way, and you say, wait, it doesn't look like that at all . You know, I think it's unsettling; The wonderful things about social media are obvious, the things about the internet are obvious. We are able to conduct this interview in this way. It's obviously a fabulous convenience and all that. The downside is that we are creating generations now, even up to my old generation, of people who have the attention span of a mosquito.

I mean , they can't get attached to anything . And to achieve something great, consistent application over a period of time is required. The old days of an artisan spending years learning to become world-class at something. Now we want to snap our fingers and be able to do this instantly because we carry this magic wand in our hand that, if we press a button, things arrive on our porch. I mean , it's magic and anything else we want it to be . You can do, you can get anything you want on this thing very, very quickly.

You can't even have a good discussion because you can get the answer to the problem right there, and you know, we used to sit and fight at dinner in our family and argue about whether someone was right or not. Now someone searches on the internet and finds the answer, and well, George is simply wrong, Henry is right, you know, and this issue of attention span is a problem. And well, what's really underneath, without embarrassing anyone or trying to embarrass an entire generation—because I don't do that, since there are people in every generation who don't do this or who free themselves from it—is emotional maturity.

The ability to postpone gratification is a sign of maturity. That's what adults do. Children do what makes them feel good. You only live once. You only live once, hurry. Instead of saying: I'm going to sacrifice myself to achieve a greater result. I'm going to live like no one else, so that later I can live and give like no one else. I have to enjoy the moment right now . That's a childish expression in any area of ​​your life. It will destroy your marriage. She will raise horrible children.

It will ruin your career and, without a doubt, it will ruin your money. Short-term thinking. Rapid enrichment has never worked at any point in the world as a continuous, verifiable, and sustainable process. It's always like that, and that's where Aesop's fable of the tortoise and the hare comes from, right? And we have to stick to this idea, and that even includes our generosity. We were starting to talk about generosity, and the generosity of these people, these millionaires we studied, is something constant. Like your savings, it's something constant.

They don't try to have this one big event that says, "Look at me, how generous I am ." Instead, they are quite discreet about it , almost absurdly quiet and anonymous, and they constantly contribute to something they believe in. If they are Christians, they go and give their tithe at their local church. If they are Jewish, they could also be tithing at their synagogue . Regardless of your religious background, there is no religious tradition on the planet that does not have a constant rhythm of giving as part of its teachings.

They all have it because that's how character is built. And when you give, it's almost impossible not to feel grateful. And as you become grateful, the next thing that happens is that you become more and more satisfied. And the more satisfied you are in a totally dissatisfied culture, the greater the advantage you have to build wealth. Tell us your thoughts on why equality is not equity and how we should think about it differently. If you deliver newspapers and actually deliver them to people's homes , and you get paid exactly the same as the guy who threw them in the trash, that's not fair.

You provided a much greater service to the community. You had integrity. You didn't steal. And the guy who threw them away took someone else's papers, they weren't his, and threw them away. That's stealing. And he did not keep his promise. And he was getting paid for a service he didn't even try to do. That's stealing too. So, their lack of integrity and lack of service in the marketplace. To say that those two people should be paid the same is an immoral statement; it's not fair. It wouldn't be fair for that guy to get the same overtime pay as you.

Now, I would never suggest that two people doing exactly the same thing and providing exactly the same level of service should receive anything different because of their skin color, their sex, or anything like that . No. We have people from all kinds of backgrounds, ethnic origins, and everything else on our leadership team. And we are completely unaware of all that . All we want to know in Ramsey is: Did you do the job? And if you did the job, you get paid. And that's how it works.

And so, that's the only measure. But to say that we're going to divide it between the people who did the work and those who didn't, those who plowed the field and those who didn't, those who showed up when the storm came and removed the tree from the road, while the other just sat at home watching and played some kind of video game on TV or something like that. I mean, that's simply communism, that's what it is in essence. It is an economic system. It's not an insult.

This idea that things are the same. So we have to eliminate that. Number one. Once we eliminate that, then we begin to understand what my friend Rabbi Lapin is saying. Rabbi Lapin is an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. We became very good friends because I simply love his teachings. I love yours. He says that money comes to the people who serve. That when you serve, your customers give you certificates of appreciation with the faces of presidents on them. And then, you know, this idea that evil people thrive.

No, the percentage of evil people among the rich is almost the same percentage of evil people among the poor because, again, money makes you more than you already are. You are magnified. And so, here's the point. Think about it. If you have a guy who works with cars, he has an auto repair shop . And you go there and he's playing around with the car. It tells you it will be $150. You're driving off and the next day your car breaks down again . And you go back there and say, "Hey, I gave you $150." "You didn't fix my car." He says, "I know, but that'll be another $150." "I'm not going to give you another $150." And you leave.

Finally you think, "Okay, this guy is a con artist." Alright. Or he's incompetent. One of the two. He doesn't know how to fix my car. So what do you do? Do you keep going there and giving the guy money? Obviously not. No, you do more than that. Go and tell everyone you know that this guy is a con artist. Don't do business with him. So, does that guy prosper at the end of the story? Of course not. Close the deal eventually. The market will punish him for his dishonesty.

Now, take the guy next door who has a repair shop. You go there, look under the hood and say, "Oh, there it is." And he says, "You're okay." Okay, what do I owe you? Nothing. Just remember me when your car really breaks down, because I just fixed it. It's not a big deal. And you drive off thinking, "I found a guy who fixed my car for free and he 's really honest." It is a unique case. "I'm going to tell everyone about this guy." And then this guy, you know , we visited him 20 years later.

It has a franchise operation. It has this type of workshop repairing cars in 56 cities across the United States. He has a fortune of 8 million dollars. And now he's evil? What? Yes. That's absurd. The line of thinking here, the critical thinking skills that lead you to that, are nonexistent. It is impossible to be a con artist and thrive in a free market in the long term. Or using dishonesty as a method to accumulate wealth, because it actually works against you. So that's the rabbi's, that's his line of thinking on the matter, and that's where we're going.

So yes, I know some evil people who are rich, but I know many more who are incredibly kind, generous, grateful, have more time for you and would do anything for anyone , I mean, they are incredible human beings. And I know many more of those than of the con artists. Money is amoral. It's not about the money. He has no morals. It's about human beings. And when it touches that human, it reflects who they are. Dave, it's been a lot of fun meeting you. I've always watched you from afar, I've admired you, you know, I'm a big fan of yours.

And to sit with you, have this conversation, and listen to the depth of these ideas, right? You are very strategic and methodical; People can get really useful advice on how to change their lives financially, but I love the depth and seriousness with which you do it. I say this sincerely. And we end each episode of OnPurpose with the five endings. These questions should be answered in one word or one phrase at most. So it's a round of quick questions. Dave Ramsey, these are your five endings.

Are you ready? I'm ready. Great, fantastic. So, the first question is, what is the best financial advice you have ever heard, received, or given? Be intentional. Second question, what is the worst financial advice you have ever received or heard? That you can borrow to achieve wealth. Great response. Very aligned. Very well, question number three. What do you think is the best investment or expense you've ever made? Give. Beautiful. Question number four, what do you think was your biggest financial mistake in an investment or expense? Going into deep debt to build wealth.

And fifth and final question, if you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be ? I would require them to be generous. That's beautiful. Dave Ramsey, everyone, if you don't already have the book "Baby Steps Millionaires", please get a copy. If you're not subscribed to Dave's podcast, "The Ramsey Show," make sure you do; His podcast and other amazing podcasts are part of that network too. Please tag Dave and me on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter about what resonated with you and what you learned.

There were many nuggets of wisdom and insight. I love the studies and research that Dave shared. Be sure to tag us both to let us know, because we'd love to see what you learned. And be sure to keep coming back to OnPurpose for more information about your mental health , which includes your finances, your fitness, and of course, your friendships. Hey Dave, thanks a lot. Any final words for our community? I feel incredibly honored to be with you. I hope we can do this again. And next time we have to spend some time together.

I would absolutely love that. If you're in Los Angeles, let me know. If I 'm in Nashville, I'll let you know. And, well, otherwise, I'll continue to support from afar and we'll definitely do this again. So thank you Dave and thank you also to your amazing team who have been so helpful. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Could you define what trust means to you? When I hear people say they want to build confidence. The reason it 's so difficult to do is because trust is a result.

It is not an input. And so, when you think about it , you don't gain confidence by trying to be confident. Confidence often comes after you are competent at something . And for me, I didn't realize that . In fact, when I was 19 and overweight, drinking, doing drugs and completely in freefall, I remember literally having a mirror in my bathroom with affirmations written on it, and I would say these affirmations to myself like, "I am beautiful." I can do this. Hard work. I have money.

I am rich. And I read them and I remember thinking that none of this was true. And it felt very strange to me because I kept thinking this should work. This is what I'm supposed to do . And then, as if nothing had happened. And I was like, why don't I feel confident? He was incredibly insecure. And by the way, people who know me very well will say that I'm still quite insecure. It's like it's in different areas. I kept waiting to feel ready. And then I realized that you never feel ready until the second time you do something.

And that's because to feel confident, which in my opinion is feeling ready, you have to develop competence in something. And the only way you develop competence is by building evidence for yourself, to understand that you can actually do that. To achieve this, you have to pay the price, which is having done something for the first time . So, it wasn't until I said, " I'm fed up with being in my head trying to think to gain confidence ," and decided to take action to get it.

How would I do that? Good. Well, I need to become competent at something. At that point in my life, you know, I felt like I wasn't really good at anything. He had no outstanding skills in anything. So, it makes sense that you're not competent if you don't have many skills, right? And that's how I learned sales. That was the first thing I learned. I moved to the other side of the country. I didn't know anyone. I had $5,000 and I thought, "I'm going to learn how to do this." I also felt viscerally opposed to the idea of sales, but I said, "I need to understand this." I need to understand these basic skills; Otherwise, I'll never be able to build a business.

So I drove to California. I looked for the nearest gym that I could walk to. I applied to all of them, you know? Then I took the one that was absolutely closest and got the job. I remember starting out and being told, "Great. You understand how to help people lose weight and get healthy, but you need to know how to promote and sell yourself." And that meant walking to Whole Foods and trying to recruit people there. It meant that when someone was doing cardio, I would approach the machine and ask, "Do you need help?" I remember the first time I approached a lady on the treadmill.

She was the first person I approached. I was telling my boss about it at that moment. I told him, "Dude, I do n't know what I'm doing." He replied, "Listen, it won't be that bad . What's the worst thing he can say?" The first person I approached, of course, looked at me and said, "Get lost." And I was like, "Ah." I remember running to the bathroom and sitting on the toilet at Whole Foods. Yes. And I thought, "I literally think I'm going to have a panic attack." I felt so bad.

I felt my stomach rise to my throat. I remember telling myself, "You can't let yourself down ." You have to make this worthwhile. I mean, you drove all the way here. You left everything. You told everyone you were going to do this. You told everyone you were going to be an entrepreneur and have a business." So I thought, "Okay, I'll focus on what I can do." And then, I focused on, "How do I get as many 'no's ' as possible?" "And receiving all those 'no's,' being rejected, and seeing that I could handle it—although before this, I was terrified of rejection, by the way; I was bullied at school, I wasn't popular, I didn't have that many friends, I wasn't attractive, I was all of that.

That's what built my confidence. And I think very often we think that whatever will make us feel secure is whatever feels good. But what feels good for us often feels bad in the moment. And what feels good in the moment is usually bad for us in the long run. And that's really the biggest lesson I learned. And then I realized that every time I built more self-confidence , I wasn't focused on being confident. I was focused on becoming the best version of myself, which meant I was becoming more competent.

And then, as a consequence, I became confident. I never thought, 'I need to be more confident,' after I realized that . I thought it just happens naturally if you do these things. What do you think is the main reason that prevents people from succeeding in their lives?" Very often, you know, people come to me and say, "I just want you to tell me the marketing trick or the sales trick," and I say, "Listen, that's where I started." I started in sales and marketing. The reason I talk about everything else is because I realized that's not what kills businesses.

So I'll tell you a story to demonstrate this. Uh... you know, we had a company we worked with, and this company had incredible growth. We started with them, they were making like $2 million a year. Uh, in three years, this company was making $90 million a year, killing it . Absolutely absurd. They get a threat from a competitor. This competitor starts pointing out things in their marketing, on their website, all these things they're going to try to take them down with, and they're going to copy, and their competitors start copying other things and then threatening to do even more .

Their competitor then, you know, serves them with a lawsuit and says, "Hey, I'm going to sue you." "That's why." And we said, "Friend, they have no grounds ." I told them, "Don't worry about it." And I know because when I had my first lawsuit, I couldn't sleep, you know, thinking, 'Oh my God, how scary '." And nothing happened." So they got involved in this lawsuit, and six months after being served, the company was at zero. The company wasn't at zero because of the lawsuit. In fact, the lawsuit ended, and they won.

The company was at zero because the founder was so unstable that she ended up closing the business because she could n't take it anymore. And I remember being on the phone with her, and she literally gave me all these reasons, you know? It's the marketing, it's the sales, it's what they're doing to me, it's this document they served me with. And it all came down to me saying, "But you can do this, you can do that, we can do this other thing." Please trust me ." That's why I'm your partner, because I can help you overcome this." "I've been in so many lawsuits." And she would say, "I just can't take it anymore." And it was at that moment that I remember thinking that the number one reason people can't grow a business and aren't successful is because they ca n't control their own minds.

They can't control their minds, and they can't control their emotions. And I've seen it so many times; the market doesn't put you out of business. You put yourself out of business . The same thing happened during COVID. I mean, we had thousands of clients back then who were business owners that we worked with. And I saw the number of people whose businesses weren't killed by COVID . Their inability to manage their emotions during COVID was what killed their businesses, because in the end, they would just throw in the towel and make up any excuse that wasn't their own.

It was the market, it was the demand, it was the fact that we were told we had to be six feet apart, or whatever. And it always came down to the fact that they didn't want to tolerate those feelings anymore. They had a low frustration tolerance. They couldn't tolerate the feelings. of uncertainty. They couldn't tolerate feelings of frustration. They couldn't tolerate feelings of unpredictability. And I've seen every great company I've ever seen fail—and I'd say five more besides the one I just told you about—it was always because the founder lacked emotional management.

They couldn't manage themselves emotionally during those problems, those situations that felt like chaos. And I'll tell you, you know, there was a time when I was, um, in so much pain that I could, you know, work from the couch every day. I had four lawsuits on the table. I was having issues with some things personally with my family. And in my business, too, I had 12 direct reports. I had four new people I had just hired. And I was doing presentations three days a week. And the only reason I was able to do that was that I thought, I'm going to put in twice the effort to make sure I can manage this.

And it was the hardest season of my life, but I made it through, and I'm better for it. That's what breaks most people. It's when everything collides. At the same time. So how do I deal with uncertainty? How do I deal with frustration, anger, anxiety? And then they just say, they find some reason outside of themselves and point to it, saying that's the reason it did n't work, every time. What's the difference between people who build discipline and those where it always falls apart? What's the difference between those two types of people?

There's no difference in the person. I think that's the biggest fallacy I see in people, like, "You're disciplined ." It's like, no, you know how to build discipline. Discipline is a system . And so, the easiest way to explain it is that if you want to be disciplined, make it easier to do the things you want to do to achieve your goals and harder to do the things that go against them. So, a great example is this: People say, "I'm just not disciplined." You know, like, like I eat ice cream every night." "I just can't lose weight." Well, discipline, if we look at it as a system , you have a trigger in your house.

You have ice cream in your freezer. That 's a literal trigger for you to eat the ice cream. So, let's remove it and then insert, I don't know, veggie sticks, or I wouldn't do that, but I would make hot chocolate, diet hot chocolate, that's a good option for me. Um, and I would put it in the same place. And it's interesting because when I wanted to lose weight, I didn't say to myself, "Oh, you're rubbish because you can't lose weight." I said to myself, "Oh, I don't have good systems in place." How do I make it as easy as possible for me to follow the steps I need to take to lose weight?

"How can I make it as easy as possible for me not to drink?" "How do I...okay, let's break down each of those. The easiest way to stop drinking. The easiest thing I did was live with six people who all drank. What did I do ? Move out. It's so simple, but it's like half the trigger. I'd say 50% of my desire to drink disappeared immediately because I was surrounded by people who were doing it all the time. And it was a constant stimulus. Hey, remember you like to drink, drink, drink, drink, drink.

Stimulating me all day long. Now, on the other hand, when I said , okay, I'm trying to lose weight . The first thing I did, I did two things. I said, I'm going to get rid of all the junk food in my house. The second thing I did was delete everything on my phone that I could order food with, because, what are the two ways I'm going to get junk food? Either it's going to be in my house or I'm going to order it. Now, if I want junk food, I'm going to have to drive.

Oh my God. Now there are so many reasons why I'm not going to..." Do that. That doesn't mean that—I think a lot of people think that to be disciplined, you need to have more desire. No, my desire for that ice cream was intense. But there was so much friction in getting it that I just said, ah, screw it. I guess I'll just deal with the desire. Yes. And most people make it work the other way around, because a lot of people say, you know, see discipline, and I think discipline is just consistently doing things to get to what you want.

Mhm. A lot of people consistently do things to not get what they want. You consistently eat the ice cream. You consistently don't go to the gym. So, you have systems in place to make it easy for you to not achieve your goals. And so, we have to change those systems. That's it. Okay. It's terrible that a lot of people get told, "You're not disciplined." No, it's that you don't have the ability to build disciplined systems around yourself. It's such a different way of looking at it.

And some of these things are really easy . For example, if you looked at my phone, when I open it in the morning, the first thing that pops up is an Insight Timer notification, which It's the one I use. And it says something like: it's time to meditate. I've been meditating. I've been doing it for 179 days straight. And that was when I started. I'm going to meditate every day during this stage of my life. The second thing I have is my fitness app. A notification pops up with a reminder I set every time I eat.

A reminder appears on my iPhone that says: log your food. Is it... is it discipline, or is it my environment reminding me to do something? Yes. Memory is a disadvantage. A lot of people think, "I have to remember." I'm going to remember that I want to lose weight, that I want to be an amazing girlfriend, and that I want to build a business," and my memory and desire should create the result. That's a fallacy. There are going to be so many things that will require your attention throughout the day.

So how are you going to create systems that capture your attention? Just triggers. It could be a piece of paper, a note you write to yourself, not having food at home, a friend calling you, a text message. We have to make it easier to achieve our goals, not harder. What are your top three tips for getting funding? The first thing I would say is that you have to show them the meat on the bone. Nobody wants a bone that's been chewed to bits, that looks like garbage and has no meat left.

So the first thing you have to show people is: where 's the meat left on the bone? For example, when we were selling Gym Launch, we said, " We've already tapped into this part of the market." We have small gyms, you know, group fitness. We haven't ventured into large gyms. Yoga studios, Pilates studios, not even CrossFit. We haven't tapped into any of that. And then we said, what's the size of that? How much meat is still on the bone there? The first thing is, nobody wants to buy a business that's run out of opportunities.

Yes. And a lot of people, unfortunately, go to investors too late, when they've already run out of opportunities. That's the first part: where do you have opportunities or meat on the bone? The second part is when you present your business to someone for investment. I would say you're selling them the team instead of selling yourself. I think when people consider investing in a business, specifically me, it's great if the founder is amazing, but you're just one person, and if you die, get hit by a car, or something happens, then who's behind you?

So I think, I want to know that the team is running this business, not just the founder. So you need to have your team on the calls, at the presentations, and have your team be able to deliver the pitch. I mean, I did that when I was selling my company. They were literally there presenting the company because I was thinking, they think I run this business and I'm involved day-to-day, look at the people who actually do it, they're going to present the company for me. What move is more important than that?

Um, so that's the second part. Um, and then the third part, probably specific to me. Um, but I think it's the way you handle the negotiation that tells me more about the founder and the company than anything else. So if I were an entrepreneur trying to get someone to invest a million dollars in me, I would demonstrate the type of person I am through the negotiation process to get the money. Because at the end of the day, you choose the rider, not the horse. A great entrepreneur can turn a terrible company into a great company, and a terrible entrepreneur can turn an amazing company into garbage.

So it really comes down to them and how they present themselves during the process. Are you early to calls or late? Do you present yourself appropriately? Are you prepared? Do you call saying, like It's happened to me with people who would call and say, "Sorry, I'm on the road right now." It's like I immediately think, " Okay, so you don't have enough time to sit down and take this call; "That's how little you take our investment seriously." Hmm, it's the way they treat you. And I think that says a lot about someone, how they're going to treat the person they're trying to get money from.

I would assume they treat you better than anyone else because they're trying to get you to give them money. But if they don't, imagine how they treat their team. Imagine how they treat their employees, their customers. Not very well. What's the key to each of these stages? What's the one thing a company should focus on to get to $100,000 in revenue, to get to $1 million; their first $100,000 in revenue, their first million in revenue, and their first $10 million in revenue? What's the difference in what they should focus on?

So, to get to your first $ 100,000, you need to sell one thing to one person through one channel— one. Like so many people, they're scattered and they say, "I have this type of client, I work with stylists and then with trainers and fitness professionals," and I'm like, "No, no, no." One avatar, one channel, one sales process. That's it. You have to keep everything super simple to reach 100,000. Now, to reach a million, it's really not that different. You have a channel, an avatar, a way to sell, a product.

But then you have to learn to be consistent. Because to reach 100,000, you can have a good week and a bad week, you can push yourself one week and then shut down your marketing, post content one day and not the next, and you can reach 100,000 being very inconsistent . To reach a million, you have to have some element of consistency implemented, which is: Are you able to do the same things? Can you take 20 sales calls a week, every week? Not three weeks, but four weeks a month.

Consistency is basically the amplifier for reaching a million. And then, to reach 10 million, you have to get other people to be consistent for you. And so... That's great. I love it. That's right. It's: "How do I get other people to take those consistent actions so that I can?" "And then what you're going to do is build the next, probably, level of product, which is typically when you reach 10 million; What you realize is that you think, 'Oh my God, I really think I need a different product for these customers.' "I have a lot of pros, I have a lot of clients.

I'm selling this to them, but not everyone is happy. Why is that ? Well, because you actually need a different product for this different type of client. In order to build that, you can no longer keep doing these other things you've been doing to be consistently in the, you know, million- or seven-figure range. So you have to get other people consistent here so you can build this backbone and then probably expand to your next channel, and so on. That's the way I see getting from 0 to 10.

I love that. Uh, I'm going to add a 4B because you're giving really good advice . I have to ask you one more question before we get to five, because five is always the same for everyone. So, my second question on that is, uh, if someone is in their 20s, what are the top three skills they should be developing right now? Regardless of their job, regardless of the industry, what are the top three skills you would say they should invest in? Patience. Patience. Patience." Interesting. It's like the rarest thing I see in 20-year-olds these days .

And I'll tell you this, I have 30, 50, yeah, in their 20s. Wow, maybe 75 people on my team in their 20s. And the number one trait of all of them who are successful is patience. Wow. They're able to do the boring work, to focus on something, to not get distracted by shiny object syndrome , to not get distracted by what their friend is doing to make quick money online, and that pays incredible dividends. I mean, we have a director of sales. His name is Jacob.

Say hi to Jacob. Um, and we've known him since he was 16, and, you know, he's about to turn 23. Wow. He's our director of sales for Acquisition.com. He leads one of the largest teams we have. He's 23 years old. What does he have that others don't ? And I tell them this all the time. Use this example. He has patience. When he came to us and We said, " We need you to just be an STR." "This is our first company. He was like this when he first came to acquisition.com.

We told him to just answer the phones. He never said, 'When am I going to get promoted?'" "He never said, 'When will I do this other thing?'" "Nothing. He just got incredibly good at the task at hand. He did it so much, focused so much, and was so patient, without trying to reach the next level, that he improved much faster. The irony is that when you get distracted trying to climb the ladder or learn the next skill too quickly, you don't actually reach the level of expertise needed in the current task to advance.

And I see it in all of them. Yes. The number one reason they don't succeed is that they aren't patient. And I must say, as someone who is a staunch advocate of patience, I have plenty of it. It's the reason I crushed it in my 20s. I mean, I hate it when they say, 'What would you say?'" "." If you were in your 20s, what would you do differently? "I would reply, 'I crushed it in my 20s.' I'm really proud of what I did. And I was very patient.

I never tried to get to the next level. I just tried to be really good where I was. I read, God, 12 books on how to run a meeting because I thought, 'I just need to perfect this.' I think that patience encompasses a lot of different skills. I think focus. I think the ability to tolerate boredom. I think, uh, the ability to tolerate distractions. And if you can acquire those skills in your 20s, yeah. Dude, I told him, 'I'm going to be working for you when I'm 45.' I love it.

Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world should follow, what would it be? Leave everyone and everything better than you found it. Yeah, that's a great rule. Yeah, well said. Leila. Thank you so much. I learned so much, I gained so much. I know my audience will get so much value out of this conversation. I hope that Keep coming back. I feel like there's so much more we could analyze together.

And I'm so grateful to have you here today. Thank you so much for making the effort to travel all the way here and be with me. Oh, yeah. It was amazing. Thank you, J. Yes. Thank you. Can we redefine success? Can we bring clarity? For example, with me, I've spent the last 5 years trying to really explain why I want to buy the New York Jets. Because it's a fun game. It's not like I need the New Yorks, you know what I mean? It's almost like I 'm in this weird situation where I want someone like Karen Thompson to buy the Jets and be the most important person.

Like, good job Karen, you nailed it. Like, I'd like to try to buy the Jets. I don't need the Jets. I want to try to build great companies. It's fun. The process over trophies. I don't need trophies to close insecurity gaps. Yes. And it's like redefining success. I was at a talk right after BCON a few days ago in Las Vegas. This lady said, you know, and she was so damn happy. And She said, "But I'm not, you know, earning the dollars like everyone else in this room.

Are you happy?" She said, "Really happy?" I said, "You're the winner of the room." We need to redefine success. You know, I'm not against money. I'm an entrepreneur. I was born in the USSR and raised in the United States. I'm all for anything that's in balance. Balanced capitalism excites me beyond measure. It's all about merit, but we need to teach ourselves the simplicity of, you know , how to redefine success. Yes. Something that really struck me was how many kids from wealthy families were angry with their parents for paying for everything, but they didn't want to give up on their parents .

That really struck me four or five years ago because I didn't grow up in that environment. I thought, "Oh, this is wild." It's a very unhappy 25-year-old with a Tesla, an amazing apartment in LA, unlimited Ubers, an Equinox, but the subconscious starts to take over, and they realize that their parents think they're failures. That's why they pay for everything and... It turns into, you know, breaking those things. Absolutely. Yes. I think I'm very happy because I'm very straightforward, Jay. I think the lack of accountability is causing so much unhappiness.

Mhm. Life is so much better when you say, " This was my fault." Yes. Absolutely. You're in control. Yes. And so, you know, this was like a summary of control. You're in control. You decide what you consume. You decide what you believe. You decide who you surround yourself with. You decide what you project. Take responsibility. Yes. Everyone wants to blame someone these days. Algorithms, they act like hypnosis. And I understand the endorphin rush and all that, but you can delete the app. I mean, where does accountability come in?

Yes. What have you currently found to be the most valuable pursuit? What are you pursuing that you consider worth pursuing? It's always been the same for me. It's almost like I'm living two separate lives. The most valuable pursuit is that I'm incredibly talented at helping to others. And I feel very comfortable being okay with myself too, by nurturing my own interests. The most valuable pursuit, my friend—I think this will get through to you— is the constant balancing beam I walk on, called equal parts selfishness and altruism, and perfecting that skill.

And I think all three times, if you'll allow me, following your analogy, I think the beam is getting thinner and yet I'm still walking on it. Mhm. You know. Yeah. Maybe the first time we met it was like an Olympic or high school balance beam. Maybe the second time around, my hope is that as I continue, I'll be on a tightrope over Manhattan and I'll walk it easily because... playing my entrepreneurial game gives me so much energy that I can deploy it positively on a grand scale and I find it fascinating, so that's what I keep chasing.

I love that, Gary. 40 minutes with you feels like an hour or two with someone else. Thank you, man. Thank you, brother. You're the best. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you so much. What What's the first thing they should build— in their mind, in their heart, in their determination, or externally—so what would you recommend starting with? You know, the first thing I want to say is that it's very important to start with yourself. We can get so caught up in everything that's going on around us.

And I think what I did pretty well early on in my career was focus my decisions on what was important to me. And I never, ever sacrificed my ambition. I was pretty straightforward, open, and honest. So I think if you want something, you have to go after it. You ca n't be shy about it. You have to be very, very honest and open about what you need and what you're looking for all the time. And I think a lot of us think—you know, we think a lot about what we want—but we do n't necessarily put it out there.

And I talk to people about this all the time. Whatever it is you want and whatever you 're thinking about doing in your life, the most important thing is to focus on what you're doing and what you can do right now . Be excellent at whatever it is you 're doing right now . You know, when I was working At Adelli, I used to make sandwiches—I told you about that earlier. I was an excellent sandwich maker, just like I make amazing jeans now . But whatever it is, I'll put that same effort into it.

And that's why I think there's this idea of ​​what it means to be truly excellent at something. And that's how we can propel ourselves toward the unimaginable. That's how we manage to do new things. That's how people start to recognize us as individuals with skills beyond where they see us right now. So that's what I try to focus on. I focus on myself. And again, it sounds very selfish, but sometimes you have to be that way . And it's okay for a period in your life as a means to get somewhere.

I really appreciate that mindset because I feel like it's a magnetic feeling that someone gives off when you see someone being really good. I remember a few months ago, my friends and I went out to dinner in Los Angeles, and we were at this restaurant, and the waitress who was serving us and taking our orders was just incredible. She had recommendations, and it wasn't a fancy place. It was a casual place on a Sunday. She knew all the specialties. She knew every little detail. She had excellent references.

She had great energy. And, literally, the three of us said, "What do you do? What kind of work do you want to do?" "Literally, everyone wants someone like that out there. Do you want more of that? We all want to attract more of that. Yes. And it goes right to your point that sometimes we think, 'Oh, I hate what I'm doing now, and I have to find what I love .' But really, if you can be excellent even at what you hate, imagine how good you'll be at what you love to do.

Oh, 100%. And I say that all the time because, you know, I think the three most important words to accelerate your career are, 'I do it.' I've spent my whole life with my hand up saying, 'I do it.'" I do. How should people choose something, their path, to focus on to become excellent? Oh, you're not going to like this. Don't pursue your passion. Seriously, no, no, no. It's very difficult because, often, the things we love, well, they aren't always great, are they? I love a glass of red wine.

I would have had three before going on this stage if I were following my passion and what my heart was telling me, but, um, it didn't seem right on purpose. So I think what you have to do is find what you're good at, find what lights you up. And you know, I often think about the things that energize you versus the things that drain you. You know, when I saw you backstage, I thought, "Oh my God, you must be exhausted and just want to go straight to sleep." And you said, " Actually, it takes me three hours to get to sleep after these shows because I'm so excited." And I said, "Yeah, because you're living your purpose." You're doing what energizes you.

So, I think you should look for what energizes you and what you're good at, where your natural abilities lean. And then you discover your purpose. I don't think you can go around looking for something that's going to be, you know, you can't try to figure out that you're going to have this big purpose, because it's very, very rare for anyone to get there. And often, you know, I don't think fashion was a purpose for me. I think I liked really cute things. And I think I needed to find a career that paid really well so I could buy those cute things, right?

I mean, it wasn't. That's pretty true. No, but the advice to stick with what you 're good at is brilliant because competence builds confidence. Yes. And I think a lot of us are trying to do it the other way around. We say, " I want to be confident," but you can't be confident if you don't feel competent. And the only time you feel competent is when you're doing something that you're really good at and something that you're willing to get really good at. Yes. Exactly. It's not that You might not be good at what you want right now, but you're more likely to dedicate time to it if you think, "Oh, I really want to excel at this." I think one of the biggest challenges I see for a lot of people is whether they only focus on passion, which, by the way, I love your advice on .

If you only follow your passion, when things get tough, you lose that passion. Whereas, if you stick with what you're good at, you realize that whether things are going well or badly , you just have to get better. Listen, one hundred percent. And I love that you talk about focus because I'm obsessed with this idea of ​​true focus. You know, focus is a force multiplier in business . It's a force multiplier at work. When you figure out what you can truly dedicate yourself to and give it your full focus, and really go for it, whether it's in your life, your business, or your relationships, you'll find incredible results.

I don't know anyone successful who hasn't been incredibly and unequivocally focused on something, digging deeper and deeper. Deciphering more and more things, and then finding the key. So I really think of it as something that opens up a whole new world for you. And when you're willing to learn and really delve into an area, amazing things start to happen. They really do . It's really like magic. It's so rewarding to become good at something. The way I see myself, people say to me, "Emma, how do you do so many things?

You have so many businesses." Well, I do one thing really , really well. I'm an excellent marketer. I understand what people want to buy and how much they're willing to pay for it. And I do that over and over and over and over again. Faster. That's it. That's it, that's all I do. And it's so important to know and figure out how you can delve into something without getting too spread out . And I think this idea, you know, we as a society, we really believe in these stories of, you know , overnight success, but it 's not true, is it?

It's not a career plan to think like that. And if I'm being really, really honest, I've never worked so hard in my life Like I do today. That 's the absolute truth. It doesn't get easier when you're more successful. It gets much harder. And I think if that's the life you're looking for and you want to do great things, you have to be willing to sacrifice others and delve deeper into just one. Here we go. Ready? Advice. The first thing I want to say is that I love that you stood up because you were the first person I saw, that's why I said, "I'm coming for you," because you just stood up .

So the idea of putting yourself out there like that is a really big and important first step. Also, congratulations on your second restaurant. It's crazy. Crazy. It really is. I think the great thing about the current media environment is that you can do things on a grand scale, with Netflix budgets and big production values, or you can scale down ideas and test them. I think one of the most incredible things I've seen work in my career is when we take projects with global potential and test them on smaller platforms, like YouTube or doing an Instagram version of what you're trying to achieve.

Your idea is to take something, like a whole industry, and go somewhere, like the prisons you mentioned or whatever. But why not try it first, with a friend in a more local setting, rather than an influencer, to see how it works? Because there's something positive about trying and learning. One of the things I know 1000% as an entrepreneur is that you just have to start. If you've already got it all figured out , written a great pitch, and are waiting for the magical day to meet Ted Sarandos and sell it to Netflix, that day might never come.

But you can get off the starting block and try something. And the great thing is, you can try, learn, fail, adjust, and start again. So I would take your idea, extract the best parts, and try to implement it in some small way. Anything you can do tomorrow. Tomorrow. A round of applause for everyone. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you, my love. You're amazing. It's a pleasure meeting you at your restaurant. A round of applause for K, everyone. I ca n't believe we did that.

What? I ca n't believe that We did that. I know. It was so much fun. It's like what you said, like someone saying, "I'll do it ." Raising their hand. Kate's bravery. Uh, and also just having a great idea, having a great thought. And that advice you gave was so spot on. I love the advice you gave. I think it's so valuable to hear that. It's interesting that you said that. When I wanted this show to exist, I actually started it on purpose because I pitched a TV show that was rejected.

No. Seven years ago. No. Yes. I had an idea for a TV show. I actually had the opportunity to pitch it to Netflix, ABC, and MTV still existed back then . And? You got rejected? And I was rejected. They rejected my TV show idea. Oh, they must be... So I started a podcast. Yes. And then, you know, hearing that gave me goosebumps because that's exactly what happened to me. Emma, ​​you've been phenomenal tonight. You're truly one of my favorite people in the world. Hey, everyone, make sure you subscribe to Aspire with Emma Reed on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all platforms.

Follow Emma on Instagram if you aren't already . A big round of applause for Emma Reed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're the best. I love you. What did you think time management was before, and now, having been so effective for so many years, what conclusion have you come to now about what time management really is ? Financial freedom is what we all start out chasing, right? And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting financial success for yourself or your family.

And so, financial freedom is something that, when I started my journey, was a component of building the business, but it really became about time freedom. Even if you have that level of success with financial freedom, we all still have the same amount of time. So it's really about that time freedom and being able to enjoy the journey along the way. I want to be able to do what I call the thousand-dollar tasks, not the one-dollar tasks. $10. And for me, a thousand-dollar task is when I get home and want to cook with my family.

Can I delegate that? Absolutely. But that's not a thousand-dollar task for me . That's a $10 task for others. But for me, spending time with my family is the most important place where I try to maintain my time freedom. It's very, very important that you think of tasks that way. Something I really recommend. I mentor a lot of women in business, and we have a lot of responsibility. There's this added layer of responsibility. I'm not saying , I mean, I have an amazing partner, an amazing husband, and we co-parent, we do everything, but as a working mom, there's that extra layer of a million things that need to be done.

As a CEO, everyone wants a little bit of your time. How you spend your time is everything. So, really think about what your thousand-dollar tasks are and focus only on those, and everything else, find a way to delegate it or eliminate it. Do we really have to? I have this process of doing, Delegate or eliminate. So every two weeks I do a time audit. How do I decide what's important to do with my time? It's, first, understanding where you want to go. I think it starts with not just doing, but knowing where you want to end up .

If you know where you want to end up —and this could be for your business, your personal goals, a hobby, or a sports goal, whatever— you need to define what that end goal looks like so you can work backward. And I think that's a big part, even in business, especially startups. You want to do everything , but you just can't. So it's really deciding what the top three things are. I'm a big believer in the rule of three for everything. I can't remember more than three things.

Everything is about trios for me, so, like, three goals for the quarter or the year—how do we work backward? That's the goal. And everything else is eliminated; it's a no. And every day I look at and plan my outcome drivers. In business, it's a very common term, but it's not just about doing everything; it's, "What What are the three most important things I will accomplish that will contribute to the goals that will take me there? "So you have to start getting really comfortable saying no. You have to start getting used to not being the one who does everything.

Did you know the day you started Stacks that you wanted it to be a billion-dollar business? I did n't know I could create a million-dollar business, let alone a billion-dollar one . I love hearing that. That's so cool. I had no idea. I was 26 years old and had no money in my bank account. I was working for a financial services company . I was the first person in my family to graduate from college. I grew up in an amazing home, really amazing. I was getting my master's degree without even knowing it.

My parents were immigrants. They came from Karachi, Pakistan. I was born in Chicago, so I was the first generation here. We moved to Texas. I changed schools 10 times in 12 years, which is an amazing part of my story. But it was the pursuit of the American Dream. And for my parents, it was about giving us the opportunity to be whatever we wanted and to get an education. That's 100% Indian culture." Pakistani; education is very important. So I was an excellent student. I'm the firstborn, the oldest daughter, all that.

I loved my childhood; I loved watching my parents work so hard. It wasn't all perfect, but we had the best family values. I was surrounded by a lot of confidence. My dad would wake my brother and me up every morning—he was that kind of energetic person at 4 a.m. Every morning he would wake us up and say, "Sunny, " which is my nickname. He would say, "You've got what it takes." That's what I experienced growing up. Every day, someone telling you that you've got what it takes.

And it was the most annoying thing in the world. They are our biggest supporters. The biggest supporters of my brothers and me. And then you carry that level of responsibility with you. You want to succeed. You want to do well. And growing up in a Muslim household, I didn't feel the weight of my gender at all. I was just the oldest daughter. And that meant I could do everything first. I never felt a difference because of my gender until I entered the workforce. Wow. That's right, yes.

Not even in college. In college, you know, I went to the University of Florida. We had like three championships in my four years there . I studied abroad. I did all these amazing, cool things. And then I went into the workforce and saw that there were no women at any of the companies I worked for. I worked for three different companies. And the only women I saw working in the organizations were in customer service or in administrative roles. There was nobody in tech. There was nobody in anything other than support roles.

And that was the first time I thought, I'm different here. For the first time, I noticed my difference. And I think it was that confidence. I never had that negative self-talk. And that self-talk actually started to build up at that time, in my 20s, but I never had it before that. So I'm super grateful. And I think that's how I try to raise kids, too—you can't love a kid too much. That's where confidence comes from, especially for young girls, because in today's world, nobody tells them that.

And Then , our negative self-talk stems from how the world looks and the inequalities that are so obvious. We start forming those conversations in our own heads. So I'm really grateful that I had great cheerleaders—people I didn't even know I was rolling my eyes at— who really helped me move forward when I was thinking, "No, I'm different. I have what it takes, and I can see things differently." So I was that problem employee; I questioned the status quo. And then I had this amazing idea to start a subscription-based processing system.

And I took it to my male bosses. And they practically walked me out of the room laughing. It was like, "Girl, great ideas, but this isn't going to work." So I went back home and flew out of Houston for family dinners. That was always a big deal . We were always surrounded by food and family. And my dad looked at me—I was so disappointed with how the conversation turned out—and he said, "Sunny, why don't you start the company yourself?" " And I said, 'Dad, where am I going to find Mr.

Visa?'" "What, at 25 years old?" "Where am I going to build a financial technology company?" "." "I have no idea, I don't know." And he said, "You'll figure it out." And that's exactly what I did. And I moved back in with my parents. And he said, " And if not, in six months, you'll get your MBA." That's what happened. It was as easy as that . When I started the business, I knew there was a gap in what I was doing, in what we were doing.

I literally sold to the first 100 customers from the trunk of my car. This was back when payment terminals were a real thing. And I carried them in my car. I drove around to the malls. It was a completely different thing. I had to go find my customers wherever they were. And every day my goal was simply to get one person to say yes. That was it. What was the mindset shift when you built a million-dollar business, a hundred million-dollar business, and then a billion-dollar business?

What changed? Because I think there might be people hearing that they've built a million and they're thinking, I want to get to 10 or 100. I don't know what I have to do. Do things differently. Because I believe that at every level there's a different mindset, a different kind of work that's required. And we often don't talk enough about that. And so you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. As Einstein said, that's insanity. What was different? What did you find you needed to improve to go from one to 100, from 100 to a billion?

You're brilliant because everything has to change. It's completely different. Going from zero to six figures, you know, getting that validation from your...it's a completely different journey from zero to six. From six to seven, it's a completely different journey. And everything breaks, and it's supposed to break. Going from seven to eight figures in revenue, it's going to break again. Your systems are going to break. People are going to break. It's going to break because it's supposed to . Once you manage to, you know, do things right, or you think you're doing them right, if you're doing what you set out to do, which is to get more clients, more revenue, there's pressure on that system and you have to Recalibrate.

You have to recalibrate the tools. You have to recalibrate the next level of scale, so it's supposed to break. But the one thing that isn't different, looking back, is that we had to change our mindset about growth . We had to, you know, get new technology; scaling isn't easy. But if I had to sum it up, it comes down to three things: people, processes, and profit. You have to scale your people. You have to scale your process, and you have to scale your profit. Most companies that get past that million-in-revenue market validation and are trying to get to, you know, a hundred million in value, have multiple revenue streams.

And that's why you're thinking outside the box. So, once we were acquiring small companies, we shifted to an enterprise strategy. Now, I'm building again. We're selling directly to banks. We're going directly to the enterprise first because that was the one-to-many that took me seven years to unlock, and then I'm going to go to small companies. So you have to be able to leverage that scale of people, processes and benefits. But the one thing I would say that stayed exactly the same and was very important to me was that I wanted to be the one to take the company out.

And I worked very hard, being overprepared above all else, to be the best CEO I could be. I put a lot of intentionality into working very hard to be the best leader I could be. And what helped me overcome that, and what remained exactly the same, were our values ​​in the company. I think we hired the right people. We fired the right people, and those decisions are difficult, and our culture was really built on the value system. I mean, I have a team tattooed here on my arm.

It comes from that, that it's me and my brother. We're a team. We're a team, a dream. That's how it's been since we grew up. That's what I wanted our team environment to be. And so, building that culture, the DNA value system, and those core values—those don't change. Those evolve, but they need to remain grounded and the same as you scale. Then you just change those; it's simply the Next playbook. It's a different heart at the next level, but you can work it out. And you can find people to work it out.

And then at that next stage, we had incredible leaders at the, you know, 100 million mark. And when I started the company, the company name was Fat Merchant, by the way, because I was 25. You know, it was fun, and we were revolutionizing the industry. But I knew Fat Merchant was a 100 million company, STAX was a billion-dollar company. And I had to get comfortable, even though it was mine, to make those changes, to make those adjustments. What's your formula for freedom? You know, freedom of money is important.

You have to be able to have financial freedom. It doesn't mean you have to have all your money in the bank, but financial freedom is important so you feel secure. But it's freedom of time. I mean, that's what we live for. And if you can get that time freedom, then hopefully you can focus on impact. So it's freedom of impact. So, it's freedom of money, freedom of time, and freedom of Impact. I love that. Uh, question number four. How do you avoid feeling lonely at the top?

You surround yourself with true friends. You surround yourself with people who also feel just as lonely in their own fields. And you don't have...you have a small circle, but you have a meaningful circle. And fifth and final question, we ask this to all the guests who have been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone would have to follow, what would it be? The one law I would like is that the world should be guided by kindness. So before you say something mean or nasty or anything that's about to come out of your mouth, or even to yourself, do it with love.

Do it with much, much, much, much, much more love, because if we give love to each other, if we love ourselves, I think the world would just be perfect. Sira, I love your energy. From the moment we met last year at the Baby2Baby gala, we connected immediately and started talking. I got to meet Fasil too, so the three of us were Living with you, and every time I see you, I fall more in love with your energy and your aura. And I'm so grateful for what you're doing for entrepreneurs around the world.

And I hope everyone who's been listening and watching will follow us on social media, subscribe to our podcast, and stay tuned for what's next on her journey with Worth AI. And Sira, I'm truly grateful to call you a friend, and I'm so, so happy that you came and trusted us to be on On Purpose. And I hope everyone who's been listening and watching will share their impressions, the things they're going to try, the pearls of wisdom that Sira shared that resonated with you. Share them on your stories, on TikTok, on Instagram.

I'm always looking forward to seeing what really connected with your heart and mind. And I think there were so many amazing ideas today. Sira, thank you so much. Thank you, Jay. The feeling is mutual. You're incredible. For those who, of course, your audience knows, but it's hard to meet your heroes because you do n't know how They're going to be. And I've been, honestly, the number of podcasts I 've listened to, the number of Daily Js I 've listened to in my, you know, career, I was almost scared when I met you and, I told you, I didn't know what it was going to be like , but you were just like I'd imagined, if not better.

You're simply amazing and I wish you so much success, the world is behind you because we need more people like you supporting us. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you. If this clip provided value and you'd like to see more, the next video has been specially chosen for you based on your viewing history. I hope you enjoy it and, if so, please subscribe to the channel so we can continue to bring you fantastic conversations.

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