All-In's Best Ideas Pitch Competition: 4 Investors Present Their Top Trades Live

Maybe you could tell us a little bit Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how you selected our presenters about how you selected our presenters about how you selected our presenters and your vision for this. I mean for any and your vision for this. I mean for any and your vision for this. I mean for any of you guys who've been involved in Ira of you guys who've been involved in Ira of you guys who've been involved in Ira this is a gentleman that passed away this is a gentleman that passed away this is a gentleman that passed away from cancer far too young and his family from cancer far too young and his family from cancer far too young and his family created this thing called the sone created this thing called the sone created this thing called the sone foundation and they would host this foundation and they would host this foundation and they would host this event and it started in Lincoln Center event and it started in Lincoln Center event and it started in Lincoln Center and they would ask these managers and so and they would ask these managers and so and they would ask these managers and so at the time I was like a young venture at the time I was like a young venture at the time I was like a young venture investor and I got this invite and I investor and I got this invite and I investor and I got this invite and I showed up in New York at Lincoln Center showed up in New York at Lincoln Center showed up in New York at Lincoln Center in 2015 and I said Amazon's going to be in 2015 and I said Amazon's going to be in 2015 and I said Amazon's going to be a trillion dollar company and I was a trillion dollar company and I was a trillion dollar company and I was laughed out of the room. Uh David laughed out of the room. Uh David laughed out of the room. Uh David Einhorn, who's a friend of mine, but who Einhorn, who's a friend of mine, but who Einhorn, who's a friend of mine, but who was totally wrong, said, "I know was totally wrong, said, "I know was totally wrong, said, "I know trillion dollar companies. This is not a trillion dollar companies. This is not a trillion dollar companies. This is not a trillion dollar company." Wrong. trillion dollar company." Wrong. trillion dollar company." Wrong. It turned out to be a great bet. I went It turned out to be a great bet. I went It turned out to be a great bet. I went back. I did Tesla in 2016. We picked the back. I did Tesla in 2016. We picked the back. I did Tesla in 2016. We picked the converts. And then in 2017, I was like, converts. And then in 2017, I was like, converts. And then in 2017, I was like, "All right, this is my this is this is "All right, this is my this is this is "All right, this is my this is this is it. This is my magnumopus." And I said, it. This is my magnumopus." And I said, it. This is my magnumopus." And I said, "AI is the future." And then I picked "AI is the future." And then I picked "AI is the future." And then I picked box. box. box. I was like, if I had just picked Nvidia, I was like, if I had just picked Nvidia, I was like, if I had just picked Nvidia, I would have been an Irish legend legend I would have been an Irish legend legend I would have been an Irish legend legend and I could have retired. Anyway, so we and I could have retired. Anyway, so we and I could have retired. Anyway, so we wanted to recreate Iris and start to get wanted to recreate Iris and start to get wanted to recreate Iris and start to get these great managers who are making these great managers who are making these great managers who are making great picks, making a ton of money for great picks, making a ton of money for great picks, making a ton of money for their LPs. They don't get the their LPs. They don't get the their LPs. They don't get the distribution and so it's just a chance distribution and so it's just a chance distribution and so it's just a chance to like get to know some of these names. to like get to know some of these names. to like get to know some of these names. You don't have to see them on CNBC. You don't have to see them on CNBC. You don't have to see them on CNBC. You'll see them here more and more You'll see them here more and more You'll see them here more and more often. And we can just get to Opine. often. And we can just get to Opine. often. And we can just get to Opine. >> Roll the video. >> Roll the video. >> Roll the video. >> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to >> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to >> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the best ideas pitch. Let's meet our the best ideas pitch. Let's meet our the best ideas pitch. Let's meet our contestants. contestants. contestants. >> Anyone should be able to trade any asset >> Anyone should be able to trade any asset >> Anyone should be able to trade any asset anywhere in the world, anytime, 24/7, anywhere in the world, anytime, 24/7, anywhere in the world, anytime, 24/7, with just an internet connection and a with just an internet connection and a with just an internet connection and a phone in their pocket. phone in their pocket. phone in their pocket. >> We're building a new financial system >> We're building a new financial system >> We're building a new financial system from the ground up here. from the ground up here. from the ground up here. >> People are going to want to own >> People are going to want to own >> People are going to want to own equities, and it's going to be fun. In equities, and it's going to be fun. In equities, and it's going to be fun. In the next couple years, companies going the next couple years, companies going the next couple years, companies going to innovate and create products and to innovate and create products and to innovate and create products and applications, and that's where hopefully applications, and that's where hopefully applications, and that's where hopefully long short managers like us can make a long short managers like us can make a long short managers like us can make a boatload of money. boatload of money. boatload of money. >> My fund, Eco R1 Capital, which is based >> My fund, Eco R1 Capital, which is based >> My fund, Eco R1 Capital, which is based in San Francisco, thinks of investing in in San Francisco, thinks of investing in in San Francisco, thinks of investing in biotech in a slightly different way. biotech in a slightly different way. biotech in a slightly different way. We're looking for unfollowed, unloved, We're looking for unfollowed, unloved, We're looking for unfollowed, unloved, misunderstood biotech companies. misunderstood biotech companies. misunderstood biotech companies. >> It's an amazing moment in time for those >> It's an amazing moment in time for those >> It's an amazing moment in time for those types of companies. There's been a types of companies. There's been a types of companies. There's been a structural and permanent perception structural and permanent perception structural and permanent perception shift where both sides of the aisle are shift where both sides of the aisle are shift where both sides of the aisle are going to be leaning into nuclear in a going to be leaning into nuclear in a going to be leaning into nuclear in a big way. big way. big way. >> I'm massively optimistic. You know, all >> I'm massively optimistic. You know, all >> I'm massively optimistic. You know, all of this leads me to just the maximum of this leads me to just the maximum of this leads me to just the maximum risk on. >> Thanks the besties for having me. And >> Thanks the besties for having me. And this is obviously a fabulous event you this is obviously a fabulous event you this is obviously a fabulous event you guys have put on. I'm happy to be here. guys have put on. I'm happy to be here. guys have put on. I'm happy to be here. Um, for those of you who don't know me, Um, for those of you who don't know me, Um, for those of you who don't know me, um, I run a $4 billion firm in New York um, I run a $4 billion firm in New York um, I run a $4 billion firm in New York called Serreta Capital. Um, before called Serreta Capital. Um, before called Serreta Capital. Um, before founding my firm, I was, uh, I ran the founding my firm, I was, uh, I ran the founding my firm, I was, uh, I ran the equities business for George Soros. Uh, equities business for George Soros. Uh, equities business for George Soros. Uh, I was then CIO for Steve Cohen. Uh, and I was then CIO for Steve Cohen. Uh, and I was then CIO for Steve Cohen. Uh, and I've been doing hedge funds now for 29 I've been doing hedge funds now for 29 I've been doing hedge funds now for 29 years. So, um, definitely on the older years. So, um, definitely on the older years. So, um, definitely on the older edge of my my pure group. Um, so I was edge of my my pure group. Um, so I was edge of my my pure group. Um, so I was thinking about, you know, I run a thinking about, you know, I run a thinking about, you know, I run a generalist fund. Um, and you know, we generalist fund. Um, and you know, we generalist fund. Um, and you know, we own a bunch of tech stocks, but you own a bunch of tech stocks, but you own a bunch of tech stocks, but you know, given this audience here, for me know, given this audience here, for me know, given this audience here, for me to pitch a tech stock would be to pitch a tech stock would be to pitch a tech stock would be absolutely completely stupid. Um, so I absolutely completely stupid. Um, so I absolutely completely stupid. Um, so I was thinking about what else. And you was thinking about what else. And you was thinking about what else. And you know, obviously the theme of this know, obviously the theme of this know, obviously the theme of this conference besides tech is poker. So I'm conference besides tech is poker. So I'm conference besides tech is poker. So I'm going to pitch to you MGM. Now most of going to pitch to you MGM. Now most of going to pitch to you MGM. Now most of you know MGM as uh you think about it as you know MGM as uh you think about it as you know MGM as uh you think about it as the Vegas um company. They own 13 the Vegas um company. They own 13 the Vegas um company. They own 13 properties in Vegas. Um they're one properties in Vegas. Um they're one properties in Vegas. Um they're one they're them and Caesars are the two they're them and Caesars are the two they're them and Caesars are the two largest owners of uh casino assets in largest owners of uh casino assets in largest owners of uh casino assets in Vegas. Um now if you notice um the other Vegas. Um now if you notice um the other Vegas. Um now if you notice um the other day um Caesars got taken out. Um and so day um Caesars got taken out. Um and so day um Caesars got taken out. Um and so we think Vegas is actually starting to we think Vegas is actually starting to we think Vegas is actually starting to improve. Um but I'm not here to pitch improve. Um but I'm not here to pitch improve. Um but I'm not here to pitch MGM because of Vegas. What I'm MGM because of Vegas. What I'm MGM because of Vegas. What I'm going to tell you is there's a couple of going to tell you is there's a couple of going to tell you is there's a couple of things we noticed. One is this company's things we noticed. One is this company's things we noticed. One is this company's been very aggressively been stock's been been very aggressively been stock's been been very aggressively been stock's been aggressively acquired by Barry Dillard aggressively acquired by Barry Dillard aggressively acquired by Barry Dillard lately. Um Barry now owns 26% of the lately. Um Barry now owns 26% of the lately. Um Barry now owns 26% of the company. Um now I put this presentation company. Um now I put this presentation company. Um now I put this presentation together two weeks ago. Yesterday he together two weeks ago. Yesterday he together two weeks ago. Yesterday he actually bid for the company. Okay. So actually bid for the company. Okay. So actually bid for the company. Okay. So when I put the presentation together the when I put the presentation together the when I put the presentation together the stock was about $37. It's now high40s. stock was about $37. It's now high40s. stock was about $37. It's now high40s. He bid $48. Okay. I would not sell my He bid $48. Okay. I would not sell my He bid $48. Okay. I would not sell my shares to him. shares to him. shares to him. >> When did we get this presentation? Did >> When did we get this presentation? Did >> When did we get this presentation? Did we get it early enough to trans? we get it early enough to trans? we get it early enough to trans? >> Uh I would not sell his I would not sell >> Uh I would not sell his I would not sell >> Uh I would not sell his I would not sell my stock to him for a second. And the my stock to him for a second. And the my stock to him for a second. And the reason is also besides him buying the reason is also besides him buying the reason is also besides him buying the stock, the company's also been buying stock, the company's also been buying stock, the company's also been buying the stock. Rarely have I ever seen a the stock. Rarely have I ever seen a the stock. Rarely have I ever seen a company in 6 years buy half their float company in 6 years buy half their float company in 6 years buy half their float back. So you have Barry Diller who's the back. So you have Barry Diller who's the back. So you have Barry Diller who's the legend aggressively buying the stock and legend aggressively buying the stock and legend aggressively buying the stock and it's also now 80% of his NAV. Okay. So it's also now 80% of his NAV. Okay. So it's also now 80% of his NAV. Okay. So you most people think of Barry Diller as you most people think of Barry Diller as you most people think of Barry Diller as the ABC producer. He did I which owned the ABC producer. He did I which owned the ABC producer. He did I which owned assets like Expedia and now he's a assets like Expedia and now he's a assets like Expedia and now he's a casino guy. What is going on here? So we casino guy. What is going on here? So we casino guy. What is going on here? So we spent a lot of time spent a lot of time spent a lot of time um asking ourselves why um and why is um asking ourselves why um and why is um asking ourselves why um and why is MGM has two hidden assets. Okay. The MGM has two hidden assets. Okay. The MGM has two hidden assets. Okay. The first one first one first one is, and this is sort of our the is, and this is sort of our the is, and this is sort of our the punchline of what we think the stock is punchline of what we think the stock is punchline of what we think the stock is worth. So you add the Vegas assets plus worth. So you add the Vegas assets plus worth. So you add the Vegas assets plus China, you get about little low60s. So China, you get about little low60s. So China, you get about little low60s. So from $48 or 37 when I started this, from $48 or 37 when I started this, from $48 or 37 when I started this, great return. What is they what they great return. What is they what they great return. What is they what they have now is a license to open a casino have now is a license to open a casino have now is a license to open a casino in Aaka, Japan. Japan a couple years ago in Aaka, Japan. Japan a couple years ago in Aaka, Japan. Japan a couple years ago went through a whole referendum around went through a whole referendum around went through a whole referendum around the country. They have prefixures. The the country. They have prefixures. The the country. They have prefixures. The prefixures voted. The only one that prefixures voted. The only one that prefixures voted. The only one that decided to own open a casino is Osaka. decided to own open a casino is Osaka. decided to own open a casino is Osaka. Now Osaka is and this is what the Now Osaka is and this is what the Now Osaka is and this is what the asset's going to look like. It's going asset's going to look like. It's going asset's going to look like. It's going to open in 2030. If you go to the to open in 2030. If you go to the to open in 2030. If you go to the company slide presentations, they sort company slide presentations, they sort company slide presentations, they sort of mention this, but they're not really of mention this, but they're not really of mention this, but they're not really talking about it. Um, Japan, just for talking about it. Um, Japan, just for talking about it. Um, Japan, just for you people, um, sorry, I don't know, you people, um, sorry, I don't know, you people, um, sorry, I don't know, this is very slow. Um, Japan actually this is very slow. Um, Japan actually this is very slow. Um, Japan actually has a reasonably large gambling market. has a reasonably large gambling market. has a reasonably large gambling market. They have pachinko parlors and they have They have pachinko parlors and they have They have pachinko parlors and they have horses. That's about a $40 billion horses. That's about a $40 billion horses. That's about a $40 billion market. If you look at the market in market. If you look at the market in market. If you look at the market in Macau, that's $30 billion. And if you Macau, that's $30 billion. And if you Macau, that's $30 billion. And if you look at Vegas, it's only $10 billion. look at Vegas, it's only $10 billion. look at Vegas, it's only $10 billion. So, this could be a massive opportunity. So, this could be a massive opportunity. So, this could be a massive opportunity. Um, you know, we're estimating they'll Um, you know, we're estimating they'll Um, you know, we're estimating they'll do about $2 billion of IBIDA. They own do about $2 billion of IBIDA. They own do about $2 billion of IBIDA. They own 40% of the property. Um, they also get a 40% of the property. Um, they also get a 40% of the property. Um, they also get a management fee for this. Um, if you also management fee for this. Um, if you also management fee for this. Um, if you also look at where Osaka is located, it's a look at where Osaka is located, it's a look at where Osaka is located, it's a great, you know, so the Japanese like to great, you know, so the Japanese like to great, you know, so the Japanese like to gamble, but the Chinese really gamble. gamble, but the Chinese really gamble. gamble, but the Chinese really gamble. Okay. So, if you look at where it is Okay. So, if you look at where it is Okay. So, if you look at where it is from Shanghai, it's shorter than Macau from Shanghai, it's shorter than Macau from Shanghai, it's shorter than Macau and Singapore, which are the two big and Singapore, which are the two big and Singapore, which are the two big gaming options in Asia. And from and gaming options in Asia. And from and gaming options in Asia. And from and from Beijing, about the same distance as from Beijing, about the same distance as from Beijing, about the same distance as Macau, and obviously much shorter than Macau, and obviously much shorter than Macau, and obviously much shorter than going to Singapore. So, if you want to going to Singapore. So, if you want to going to Singapore. So, if you want to go gambling for a weekend and you live go gambling for a weekend and you live go gambling for a weekend and you live in Shanghai, live in Beijing, Osaka is in Shanghai, live in Beijing, Osaka is in Shanghai, live in Beijing, Osaka is great. It's also a first world nation. great. It's also a first world nation. great. It's also a first world nation. Um, and if you think about as an Um, and if you think about as an Um, and if you think about as an investor, where would you want to have investor, where would you want to have investor, where would you want to have your money? Look, Macau has issues. It's your money? Look, Macau has issues. It's your money? Look, Macau has issues. It's a low multiple business. This is Japan. a low multiple business. This is Japan. a low multiple business. This is Japan. It's a first world country. So, we think It's a first world country. So, we think It's a first world country. So, we think Barry Diller is understands gambling. He Barry Diller is understands gambling. He Barry Diller is understands gambling. He understands casinos. But what he's understands casinos. But what he's understands casinos. But what he's really doing is now trying to pick off really doing is now trying to pick off really doing is now trying to pick off the company to get the Japanese the company to get the Japanese the company to get the Japanese opportunity which we think is worth will opportunity which we think is worth will opportunity which we think is worth will more than double the stock. The final more than double the stock. The final more than double the stock. The final option and I'm keeping this simple. What option and I'm keeping this simple. What option and I'm keeping this simple. What I love about this pitch is it's really I love about this pitch is it's really I love about this pitch is it's really simple. It's not that hard to do the simple. It's not that hard to do the simple. It's not that hard to do the math. MGM is built somebody they're math. MGM is built somebody they're math. MGM is built somebody they're they're they're branding they're they're they're branding they're they're they're branding they're building a property in Dubai. Okay. Now building a property in Dubai. Okay. Now building a property in Dubai. Okay. Now it's going to it's a grand complex. It it's going to it's a grand complex. It it's going to it's a grand complex. It has an Arya. It has an MGM and it has a has an Arya. It has an MGM and it has a has an Arya. It has an MGM and it has a Bellagio. Gambling is illegal in Dubai Bellagio. Gambling is illegal in Dubai Bellagio. Gambling is illegal in Dubai right now. Okay. But they have snuck in right now. Okay. But they have snuck in right now. Okay. But they have snuck in this building 300,000 square ft of cu of this building 300,000 square ft of cu of this building 300,000 square ft of cu of space. Well, one day if Dubai decides to space. Well, one day if Dubai decides to space. Well, one day if Dubai decides to legalize gambling, guess where it's legalize gambling, guess where it's legalize gambling, guess where it's going? Right there. going? Right there. going? Right there. Next year, two, sorry, two years from Next year, two, sorry, two years from Next year, two, sorry, two years from now, win is going to open a casino in a now, win is going to open a casino in a now, win is going to open a casino in a place called Ararjan, which is 45 place called Ararjan, which is 45 place called Ararjan, which is 45 minutes away from Dubai. Now, any of us minutes away from Dubai. Now, any of us minutes away from Dubai. Now, any of us who want to go gambling in Dubai, we who want to go gambling in Dubai, we who want to go gambling in Dubai, we arjan's a bit of a pain in the ass to arjan's a bit of a pain in the ass to arjan's a bit of a pain in the ass to get to, we're going to want to go here. get to, we're going to want to go here. get to, we're going to want to go here. So, we think there's a chance that So, we think there's a chance that So, we think there's a chance that especially when win opens. Also look, especially when win opens. Also look, especially when win opens. Also look, there's a possibility of the war, you there's a possibility of the war, you there's a possibility of the war, you know, Dubai wants to reestablish know, Dubai wants to reestablish know, Dubai wants to reestablish themselves that they open a casino in um themselves that they open a casino in um themselves that they open a casino in um Dubai and you know what that would be Dubai and you know what that would be Dubai and you know what that would be worth. So when you take the Vegas worth. So when you take the Vegas worth. So when you take the Vegas assets, which we think are worth about assets, which we think are worth about assets, which we think are worth about 60, when you take Japan, which we think 60, when you take Japan, which we think 60, when you take Japan, which we think is worth about 50 bucks, if Dubai is worth about 50 bucks, if Dubai is worth about 50 bucks, if Dubai happens, that's worth another $40 or happens, that's worth another $40 or happens, that's worth another $40 or $50. So we think the stock is a triple. $50. So we think the stock is a triple. $50. So we think the stock is a triple. Bar remember Barry's bidding for the Bar remember Barry's bidding for the Bar remember Barry's bidding for the company. Okay, he is not a strategic company. Okay, he is not a strategic company. Okay, he is not a strategic buyer. He is a financial buyer and he's buyer. He is a financial buyer and he's buyer. He is a financial buyer and he's doing it to get rich. So therefore, I doing it to get rich. So therefore, I doing it to get rich. So therefore, I think this company is now in play. I think this company is now in play. I think this company is now in play. I don't know how it's all going to play don't know how it's all going to play don't know how it's all going to play out, but if you own shares, don't tend out, but if you own shares, don't tend out, but if you own shares, don't tend to them. And the riskreward is to them. And the riskreward is to them. And the riskreward is incredible right now because, you know, incredible right now because, you know, incredible right now because, you know, I'm telling you, I think the stock could I'm telling you, I think the stock could I'm telling you, I think the stock could be easily worth over 100, could be worth be easily worth over 100, could be worth be easily worth over 100, could be worth 150. And now you have Barry Diller who 150. And now you have Barry Diller who 150. And now you have Barry Diller who is a has a firm bid owns 26% of the is a has a firm bid owns 26% of the is a has a firm bid owns 26% of the company basically at the same price. So company basically at the same price. So company basically at the same price. So I think this is a cool idea. I think this is a cool idea. I think this is a cool idea. >> Well done. >> Well done. >> Well done. Okay. Uh anybody let's uh do two Okay. Uh anybody let's uh do two Okay. Uh anybody let's uh do two questions and uh yeah we'll put we'll questions and uh yeah we'll put we'll questions and uh yeah we'll put we'll give you both questions at the same time give you both questions at the same time give you both questions at the same time for efficiency. for efficiency. for efficiency. >> How much have you looked at like the >> How much have you looked at like the >> How much have you looked at like the monetization of the assets outside of monetization of the assets outside of monetization of the assets outside of gambling? I had heard from someone that gambling? I had heard from someone that gambling? I had heard from someone that Barry Diller was spending a lot of time Barry Diller was spending a lot of time Barry Diller was spending a lot of time trying to reinvent the entertainment trying to reinvent the entertainment trying to reinvent the entertainment piece of the properties. he was active piece of the properties. he was active piece of the properties. he was active on the board and they were trying to on the board and they were trying to on the board and they were trying to identify that the entertainment property identify that the entertainment property identify that the entertainment property is way the entertainment value is way is way the entertainment value is way is way the entertainment value is way undermonetized and they could be making undermonetized and they could be making undermonetized and they could be making a lot more per a lot more per a lot more per >> Okay, don't answer yet. That's question >> Okay, don't answer yet. That's question >> Okay, don't answer yet. That's question one. one. one. >> And then question two is how when you >> And then question two is how when you >> And then question two is how when you expand internationally do you scale expand internationally do you scale expand internationally do you scale customer credit because that tends to be customer credit because that tends to be customer credit because that tends to be the thing that drives the thing that drives the thing that drives >> you know people to come back and >> you know people to come back and >> you know people to come back and >> well obviously MGM let me start with >> well obviously MGM let me start with >> well obviously MGM let me start with your question first. MGM has a massive your question first. MGM has a massive your question first. MGM has a massive database of customers, right? So, you database of customers, right? So, you database of customers, right? So, you know, I assume the Vegas properties have know, I assume the Vegas properties have know, I assume the Vegas properties have guys that come from China, they come guys that come from China, they come guys that come from China, they come from um Japan. They'll use that database from um Japan. They'll use that database from um Japan. They'll use that database to do it. They also have a loyalty to do it. They also have a loyalty to do it. They also have a loyalty program. Um I unfortunately made a bad program. Um I unfortunately made a bad program. Um I unfortunately made a bad investment in a company called Rio, the investment in a company called Rio, the investment in a company called Rio, the Rio, which was in Vegas. Um which we Rio, which was in Vegas. Um which we Rio, which was in Vegas. Um which we bought when they separate when Caesar's bought when they separate when Caesar's bought when they separate when Caesar's merged with El Dorado. Um they had to merged with El Dorado. Um they had to merged with El Dorado. Um they had to shed an asset. Um that was that was uh shed an asset. Um that was that was uh shed an asset. Um that was that was uh the Rio. We I did an investment with a the Rio. We I did an investment with a the Rio. We I did an investment with a couple of friends and we were buying the couple of friends and we were buying the couple of friends and we were buying the thing at $200 per square foot. The thing thing at $200 per square foot. The thing thing at $200 per square foot. The thing we forgot was when you separated from we forgot was when you separated from we forgot was when you separated from Caesars, you lost the loyalty program Caesars, you lost the loyalty program Caesars, you lost the loyalty program and that ended up two quick questions and that ended up two quick questions and that ended up two quick questions from the audience. from the audience. from the audience. >> Wait, I got to ask Kyle's question. >> Wait, I got to ask Kyle's question. >> Wait, I got to ask Kyle's question. >> Hold on. Question and then from the >> Hold on. Question and then from the >> Hold on. Question and then from the audience. audience. audience. >> Let me get his first. >> Let me get his first. >> Let me get his first. >> The entertainment question. >> The entertainment question. >> The entertainment question. >> I don't know the answer. I don't know >> I don't know the answer. I don't know >> I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer to that. If it's if he can the answer to that. If it's if he can the answer to that. If it's if he can make them better, it will help. make them better, it will help. make them better, it will help. >> But as I'm saying, this is not really a >> But as I'm saying, this is not really a >> But as I'm saying, this is not really a Vegas. This is an Asian casino play that Vegas. This is an Asian casino play that Vegas. This is an Asian casino play that >> the and if if you look at their >> the and if if you look at their >> the and if if you look at their presentations which is really cool. presentations which is really cool. presentations which is really cool. >> They are not they barely mention it. So >> They are not they barely mention it. So >> They are not they barely mention it. So what one of the things we happened what one of the things we happened what one of the things we happened besides we were hoping one of the cat so besides we were hoping one of the cat so besides we were hoping one of the cat so looked I worked at SACE and one of the looked I worked at SACE and one of the looked I worked at SACE and one of the things we focus on is catalyst path. things we focus on is catalyst path. things we focus on is catalyst path. >> So what was the catalyst path? The >> So what was the catalyst path? The >> So what was the catalyst path? The catalyst path was they would have an catalyst path was they would have an catalyst path was they would have an investor day blah blah blah. Barry just investor day blah blah blah. Barry just investor day blah blah blah. Barry just showed his cards. So, um, but you know, showed his cards. So, um, but you know, showed his cards. So, um, but you know, >> Aaron, two questions. Caesars left Dubai >> Aaron, two questions. Caesars left Dubai >> Aaron, two questions. Caesars left Dubai waiting for a license. Why would this be waiting for a license. Why would this be waiting for a license. Why would this be different for MGM? That's question one. different for MGM? That's question one. different for MGM? That's question one. >> And then question two is the Osaka >> And then question two is the Osaka >> And then question two is the Osaka Casino was approved in 2023. Casino was approved in 2023. Casino was approved in 2023. Why was the market ignoring this hidden Why was the market ignoring this hidden Why was the market ignoring this hidden asset until the bid? asset until the bid? asset until the bid? >> Sure. Let me answer this. So, what's >> Sure. Let me answer this. So, what's >> Sure. Let me answer this. So, what's also cool about this idea was, so I've also cool about this idea was, so I've also cool about this idea was, so I've been doing this for 29 years. um win um been doing this for 29 years. um win um been doing this for 29 years. um win um they opened Macau. So Win started as a they opened Macau. So Win started as a they opened Macau. So Win started as a Vegas property then opened Macau. The Vegas property then opened Macau. The Vegas property then opened Macau. The market started caring about it about 3 market started caring about it about 3 market started caring about it about 3 years before it opened. Um so that the years before it opened. Um so that the years before it opened. Um so that the answer is they should care about it. The answer is they should care about it. The answer is they should care about it. The reality is it's tends to be about 3 reality is it's tends to be about 3 reality is it's tends to be about 3 years before it opens. Well, we're years before it opens. Well, we're years before it opens. Well, we're almost in that time frame, which is why almost in that time frame, which is why almost in that time frame, which is why we think it's opportunistically the we think it's opportunistically the we think it's opportunistically the right period of time. Um I, you know, right period of time. Um I, you know, right period of time. Um I, you know, regarding the question with Caesars, regarding the question with Caesars, regarding the question with Caesars, look, this is an option. As I told you, look, this is an option. As I told you, look, this is an option. As I told you, somebody built this project for them. somebody built this project for them. somebody built this project for them. They are running it for them and they They are running it for them and they They are running it for them and they were intelligent enough to leave 300,000 were intelligent enough to leave 300,000 were intelligent enough to leave 300,000 square ft of empty space in case they square ft of empty space in case they square ft of empty space in case they get a casino. Well, if that happens, get a casino. Well, if that happens, get a casino. Well, if that happens, great. If it doesn't, you know, you're great. If it doesn't, you know, you're great. If it doesn't, you know, you're still going to double more than double still going to double more than double still going to double more than double your money. So, you know, you if if it your money. So, you know, you if if it your money. So, you know, you if if it happens, you triple your money. happens, you triple your money. happens, you triple your money. >> Free option. You're saying >> Free option. You're saying >> Free option. You're saying >> it's free option. >> it's free option. >> it's free option. >> Well done. Big round of applause. >> Well done. Big round of applause. >> Well done. Big round of applause. >> Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. >> Nicely done, Aaron. >> Nicely done, Aaron. >> Nicely done, Aaron. Next up, Daniel. Next up, Daniel. Next up, Daniel. >> Long time no see. >> Long time no see. >> Long time no see. So, today we're doing talent energy. Uh, So, today we're doing talent energy. Uh, So, today we're doing talent energy. Uh, but first, but first, but first, the anatomy of a power cycle. the anatomy of a power cycle. the anatomy of a power cycle. So, a power cycle typically goes like So, a power cycle typically goes like So, a power cycle typically goes like this. In normal times, power demand this. In normal times, power demand this. In normal times, power demand grows about GDP. So, if GDP grows 2%, grows about GDP. So, if GDP grows 2%, grows about GDP. So, if GDP grows 2%, power demand grows two. If GDP grows power demand grows two. If GDP grows power demand grows two. If GDP grows three, power demand goes three. And three, power demand goes three. And three, power demand goes three. And there's moments in time where we get there's moments in time where we get there's moments in time where we get technological breakthroughs and a lot of technological breakthroughs and a lot of technological breakthroughs and a lot of those technological breakthroughs are those technological breakthroughs are those technological breakthroughs are very power intensive. So power demand very power intensive. So power demand very power intensive. So power demand spikes spikes spikes and once everybody adopts that and once everybody adopts that and once everybody adopts that technology technology technology it trends back down to its onal it trends back down to its onal it trends back down to its onal algorithm algorithm algorithm GDP growth and then you go through the GDP growth and then you go through the GDP growth and then you go through the efficiencies phase where we say let's efficiencies phase where we say let's efficiencies phase where we say let's try to conserve and figure out ways to try to conserve and figure out ways to try to conserve and figure out ways to consume less power and then the cycle consume less power and then the cycle consume less power and then the cycle starts all over again. So, you know, in starts all over again. So, you know, in starts all over again. So, you know, in history, the big technological boom that history, the big technological boom that history, the big technological boom that sent power demand skyrocketing was sent power demand skyrocketing was sent power demand skyrocketing was appliances and air conditioning. appliances and air conditioning. appliances and air conditioning. Everybody had to get their kettles and Everybody had to get their kettles and Everybody had to get their kettles and and the aircon. Then in the 70s and 80s and the aircon. Then in the 70s and 80s and the aircon. Then in the 70s and 80s and 90s, demand normalized again. But and 90s, demand normalized again. But and 90s, demand normalized again. But then the 2000s were all about then the 2000s were all about then the 2000s were all about efficiencies. You know, we had like LED efficiencies. You know, we had like LED efficiencies. You know, we had like LED lighting, smart HVAC, tinted windows, lighting, smart HVAC, tinted windows, lighting, smart HVAC, tinted windows, smart electronics. And at the same time, smart electronics. And at the same time, smart electronics. And at the same time, as I said earlier, we were like, you as I said earlier, we were like, you as I said earlier, we were like, you know, ripping down all our power- hungry know, ripping down all our power- hungry know, ripping down all our power- hungry infrastructure like aluminum smelters infrastructure like aluminum smelters infrastructure like aluminum smelters and moving over China. So, we had two and moving over China. So, we had two and moving over China. So, we had two decades of effectively no power demand. decades of effectively no power demand. decades of effectively no power demand. And now we're just coming out of it and And now we're just coming out of it and And now we're just coming out of it and starting a technological cycle again starting a technological cycle again starting a technological cycle again where power demand is going to really where power demand is going to really where power demand is going to really start to explode from these sort of high start to explode from these sort of high start to explode from these sort of high 2% numbers you're seeing on the screen. 2% numbers you're seeing on the screen. 2% numbers you're seeing on the screen. Now, I want to say something right now Now, I want to say something right now Now, I want to say something right now that is incredibly important. We do not need AI demand to keep the We do not need AI demand to keep the power markets incredibly tight for the power markets incredibly tight for the power markets incredibly tight for the next 20 years. next 20 years. next 20 years. AI demand just turbocharges. AI demand just turbocharges. AI demand just turbocharges. That's all it does. And it creates That's all it does. And it creates That's all it does. And it creates shortages. So just remember that. Early shortages. So just remember that. Early shortages. So just remember that. Early in my career, I was on a panel with Sam in my career, I was on a panel with Sam in my career, I was on a panel with Sam Zel. Interestingly, it was a panel on Zel. Interestingly, it was a panel on Zel. Interestingly, it was a panel on opportunities in Mongolia. I was looking opportunities in Mongolia. I was looking opportunities in Mongolia. I was looking at a copper mine and he was looking at at a copper mine and he was looking at at a copper mine and he was looking at real estate. There was one thing he said real estate. There was one thing he said real estate. There was one thing he said that stuck with me for the rest of my that stuck with me for the rest of my that stuck with me for the rest of my career is he said, "If you can buy an career is he said, "If you can buy an career is he said, "If you can buy an asset, a hard asset at below replacement asset, a hard asset at below replacement asset, a hard asset at below replacement cost for an asset that's going to be cost for an asset that's going to be cost for an asset that's going to be needed in the future where we're going needed in the future where we're going needed in the future where we're going to need to build new capacity of that to need to build new capacity of that to need to build new capacity of that asset. Then you buy that asset at the asset. Then you buy that asset at the asset. Then you buy that asset at the discount to replacement cost. You hold discount to replacement cost. You hold discount to replacement cost. You hold it and you sell it at a big premium to it and you sell it at a big premium to it and you sell it at a big premium to replacement cost when the market wakes replacement cost when the market wakes replacement cost when the market wakes up. That's exactly we did with Equity up. That's exactly we did with Equity up. That's exactly we did with Equity Office properties. Sold it at the peak Office properties. Sold it at the peak Office properties. Sold it at the peak of the market but bought it at a of the market but bought it at a of the market but bought it at a discount to replacement value. Talon discount to replacement value. Talon discount to replacement value. Talon Energy is a power producer. They have 2 Energy is a power producer. They have 2 Energy is a power producer. They have 2 gawatts of nuclear power and they've got gawatts of nuclear power and they've got gawatts of nuclear power and they've got 6 gawatt of natural gas base load power. 6 gawatt of natural gas base load power. 6 gawatt of natural gas base load power. Today in the stock market, as a good Today in the stock market, as a good Today in the stock market, as a good speculation, you could purchase this speculation, you could purchase this speculation, you could purchase this company at a $25 billion enterprise company at a $25 billion enterprise company at a $25 billion enterprise value. the replacement cost is 45 value. the replacement cost is 45 value. the replacement cost is 45 billion. And because they've got debt, billion. And because they've got debt, billion. And because they've got debt, it means that the equity value uh just it means that the equity value uh just it means that the equity value uh just to get to replacement cost uh is more to get to replacement cost uh is more to get to replacement cost uh is more than a double uh from where it's trading than a double uh from where it's trading than a double uh from where it's trading today. And if you follow Sam's playbook, today. And if you follow Sam's playbook, today. And if you follow Sam's playbook, then we ultimately end this cycle at a then we ultimately end this cycle at a then we ultimately end this cycle at a big premium to replacement value. big premium to replacement value. big premium to replacement value. So when I see this, So when I see this, So when I see this, I say the plan for America I say the plan for America I say the plan for America on the power side has to be this. Make on the power side has to be this. Make on the power side has to be this. Make America great again. Copy China. America great again. Copy China. America great again. Copy China. If you look what China did over the last If you look what China did over the last If you look what China did over the last 20 years, we started out this cycle with 20 years, we started out this cycle with 20 years, we started out this cycle with having 2x the power generation that having 2x the power generation that having 2x the power generation that China had. Fast forward to today, China China had. Fast forward to today, China China had. Fast forward to today, China has three times the power generation has three times the power generation has three times the power generation capacity that we have. Now, if you capacity that we have. Now, if you capacity that we have. Now, if you believe that artificial intelligence is believe that artificial intelligence is believe that artificial intelligence is going to be responsible for scientific going to be responsible for scientific going to be responsible for scientific breakthroughs, you either have it or you breakthroughs, you either have it or you breakthroughs, you either have it or you don't have the scientific breakthroughs. don't have the scientific breakthroughs. don't have the scientific breakthroughs. If you believe that artificial If you believe that artificial If you believe that artificial intelligence is going to drive robotics, intelligence is going to drive robotics, intelligence is going to drive robotics, you either have it or you don't have you either have it or you don't have you either have it or you don't have that productivity from the robots. If that productivity from the robots. If that productivity from the robots. If you believe that artificial intelligence you believe that artificial intelligence you believe that artificial intelligence is going to be helpful for national is going to be helpful for national is going to be helpful for national security and military affairs, then you security and military affairs, then you security and military affairs, then you either have it or you're dead. And so either have it or you're dead. And so either have it or you're dead. And so this is an absolutely mandatory this is an absolutely mandatory this is an absolutely mandatory buildout that we have to do otherwise buildout that we have to do otherwise buildout that we have to do otherwise we're going to fall behind because at we're going to fall behind because at we're going to fall behind because at the end of the day what is a data the end of the day what is a data the end of the day what is a data center? You know in my world in the center? You know in my world in the center? You know in my world in the commodities world I look at a data commodities world I look at a data commodities world I look at a data center as the exact same thing as a center as the exact same thing as a center as the exact same thing as a refinery. In a traditional hydrocarbon refinery. In a traditional hydrocarbon refinery. In a traditional hydrocarbon refinery you put oil in crude oil in you refinery you put oil in crude oil in you refinery you put oil in crude oil in you refine it into jet fuel or gasoline for refine it into jet fuel or gasoline for refine it into jet fuel or gasoline for your car. With a data center, you put your car. With a data center, you put your car. With a data center, you put electricity in and on the other end electricity in and on the other end electricity in and on the other end instead of gasoline or jet fuel out instead of gasoline or jet fuel out instead of gasoline or jet fuel out comes photons or tokens or intelligence, comes photons or tokens or intelligence, comes photons or tokens or intelligence, whatever you want to call it, but it's whatever you want to call it, but it's whatever you want to call it, but it's the same thing. Big capital inensive the same thing. Big capital inensive the same thing. Big capital inensive asset, $50 billion per gawatt and power asset, $50 billion per gawatt and power asset, $50 billion per gawatt and power just like electricity, just like oil is just like electricity, just like oil is just like electricity, just like oil is the input to that refinery. So, here's the input to that refinery. So, here's the input to that refinery. So, here's Jensen Jensen Jensen and uh he was just recently quoted that and uh he was just recently quoted that and uh he was just recently quoted that we need a thousand times more power than we need a thousand times more power than we need a thousand times more power than we currently have. Now, if that's we currently have. Now, if that's we currently have. Now, if that's remotely true, we need every single remotely true, we need every single remotely true, we need every single source of power that you can imagine. We source of power that you can imagine. We source of power that you can imagine. We need hundreds of gigawatts of nuclear, need hundreds of gigawatts of nuclear, need hundreds of gigawatts of nuclear, we need solar, we need orbital, we need we need solar, we need orbital, we need we need solar, we need orbital, we need it all, if this is even remotely true. it all, if this is even remotely true. it all, if this is even remotely true. But the challenge as we spoke about But the challenge as we spoke about But the challenge as we spoke about before is the supply chain, right? All before is the supply chain, right? All before is the supply chain, right? All of these, you know, a data center of these, you know, a data center of these, you know, a data center competes for the same supply chain of competes for the same supply chain of competes for the same supply chain of the critical minerals that space the critical minerals that space the critical minerals that space launches and orbital data centers do. launches and orbital data centers do. launches and orbital data centers do. Power plants need all the same nickel Power plants need all the same nickel Power plants need all the same nickel super alloys that it takes to launch super alloys that it takes to launch super alloys that it takes to launch rockets and the silver that goes into rockets and the silver that goes into rockets and the silver that goes into these photovalttaic cells. And so and so these photovalttaic cells. And so and so these photovalttaic cells. And so and so there's going to be shortages of there's going to be shortages of there's going to be shortages of everything and delays everywhere. And my everything and delays everywhere. And my everything and delays everywhere. And my point here is we are just going to need point here is we are just going to need point here is we are just going to need every solution that we can throw at this every solution that we can throw at this every solution that we can throw at this for the foreseeable future. for the foreseeable future. for the foreseeable future. So here's a little region in the US So here's a little region in the US So here's a little region in the US called the PJM, Pennsylvania, Jersey, called the PJM, Pennsylvania, Jersey, called the PJM, Pennsylvania, Jersey, Maryland. Uh this is a forecast from the Maryland. Uh this is a forecast from the Maryland. Uh this is a forecast from the grid operator where they say that over grid operator where they say that over grid operator where they say that over the next 10 years we're going to need the next 10 years we're going to need the next 10 years we're going to need 106 gawatts of new power in the PJM in 106 gawatts of new power in the PJM in 106 gawatts of new power in the PJM in just one little area of the US. Now in just one little area of the US. Now in just one little area of the US. Now in 10 years in geological time that's like 10 years in geological time that's like 10 years in geological time that's like tomorrow morning right we're all so used tomorrow morning right we're all so used tomorrow morning right we're all so used to internet time you press a button and to internet time you press a button and to internet time you press a button and you get your food delivered to you or you get your food delivered to you or you get your food delivered to you or your car picks you up in two seconds you your car picks you up in two seconds you your car picks you up in two seconds you know building infrastructure happens in know building infrastructure happens in know building infrastructure happens in geological time 10 years to build out geological time 10 years to build out geological time 10 years to build out 106 gawatt is literally a nancond from 106 gawatt is literally a nancond from 106 gawatt is literally a nancond from now and you know you see that thermal now and you know you see that thermal now and you know you see that thermal coal retirements we ain't retiring those coal retirements we ain't retiring those coal retirements we ain't retiring those coal plants because there's no world coal plants because there's no world coal plants because there's no world where we're going to be building 100 where we're going to be building 100 where we're going to be building 100 gawatt in 10 years that's the size of gawatt in 10 years that's the size of gawatt in 10 years that's the size of what Japan consumes today for one little what Japan consumes today for one little what Japan consumes today for one little part of the US. And you know what I'll part of the US. And you know what I'll part of the US. And you know what I'll say is those that understand the supply say is those that understand the supply say is those that understand the supply chain and what goes into building all chain and what goes into building all chain and what goes into building all this, everybody's in panic mode because this, everybody's in panic mode because this, everybody's in panic mode because we know that we don't have the raw we know that we don't have the raw we know that we don't have the raw materials to meet this level of demand materials to meet this level of demand materials to meet this level of demand that's coming our way. So that's going that's coming our way. So that's going that's coming our way. So that's going to keep existing capacity and power to keep existing capacity and power to keep existing capacity and power prices very tight. Now the data center prices very tight. Now the data center prices very tight. Now the data center and the hyperscalers are in a panic. and the hyperscalers are in a panic. and the hyperscalers are in a panic. They're trying everything they can to They're trying everything they can to They're trying everything they can to source as much power as they can under source as much power as they can under source as much power as they can under long-term PPAs power purchase price long-term PPAs power purchase price long-term PPAs power purchase price agreements at fixed prices for 20 years. agreements at fixed prices for 20 years. agreements at fixed prices for 20 years. There's a famous example, you know, I There's a famous example, you know, I There's a famous example, you know, I thought Microsoft was a green company, thought Microsoft was a green company, thought Microsoft was a green company, but they went and convinced but they went and convinced but they went and convinced Constellation Energy, which is a company Constellation Energy, which is a company Constellation Energy, which is a company that owns the 3M island nuclear reactor, that owns the 3M island nuclear reactor, that owns the 3M island nuclear reactor, you know, the one that melted down and you know, the one that melted down and you know, the one that melted down and created, you know, the nuclear meltdown created, you know, the nuclear meltdown created, you know, the nuclear meltdown that gave nuclear a bad name for 30 that gave nuclear a bad name for 30 that gave nuclear a bad name for 30 years. It was Microsoft that told them years. It was Microsoft that told them years. It was Microsoft that told them they needed to start it up. And in order they needed to start it up. And in order they needed to start it up. And in order to incentivize to stimulate their hand to incentivize to stimulate their hand to incentivize to stimulate their hand to wallet reflex to start this thing up, to wallet reflex to start this thing up, to wallet reflex to start this thing up, they said, "Power prices stay $50 a they said, "Power prices stay $50 a they said, "Power prices stay $50 a megawatt hour. We'll pay you a hundred a megawatt hour. We'll pay you a hundred a megawatt hour. We'll pay you a hundred a year for 20 years minimum price for you year for 20 years minimum price for you year for 20 years minimum price for you guys to start this up." And so here we guys to start this up." And so here we guys to start this up." And so here we have it. Uh 3M Island brought to you by have it. Uh 3M Island brought to you by have it. Uh 3M Island brought to you by Microsoft Azure. So, you know, it's Microsoft Azure. So, you know, it's Microsoft Azure. So, you know, it's getting harder to do these deals because getting harder to do these deals because getting harder to do these deals because the regulators are saying, "Wait a the regulators are saying, "Wait a the regulators are saying, "Wait a minute. If you're taking all this power minute. If you're taking all this power minute. If you're taking all this power off the grid for your data center, how off the grid for your data center, how off the grid for your data center, how are we going to heat the homes of our are we going to heat the homes of our are we going to heat the homes of our customers?" And so, uh, you know, it customers?" And so, uh, you know, it customers?" And so, uh, you know, it we're getting ourselves into the moment we're getting ourselves into the moment we're getting ourselves into the moment of what I call crunch time. So, just to of what I call crunch time. So, just to of what I call crunch time. So, just to finish up, uh, here are the numbers on finish up, uh, here are the numbers on finish up, uh, here are the numbers on Talon. Um, the stock today is sort of in Talon. Um, the stock today is sort of in Talon. Um, the stock today is sort of in the high 300s. If they just do the high 300s. If they just do the high 300s. If they just do absolutely nothing, just absolutely absolutely nothing, just absolutely absolutely nothing, just absolutely nothing, just sit there and run the nothing, just sit there and run the nothing, just sit there and run the business, let their Amazon data center business, let their Amazon data center business, let their Amazon data center contract roll up, these guys will be contract roll up, these guys will be contract roll up, these guys will be generating $50 a share of free cash flow generating $50 a share of free cash flow generating $50 a share of free cash flow per year. Again, the stock is in the per year. Again, the stock is in the per year. Again, the stock is in the high 300. So, it's about seven times high 300. So, it's about seven times high 300. So, it's about seven times free cash flow. Good infrastructure free cash flow. Good infrastructure free cash flow. Good infrastructure assets in the US, traded about 15 times. assets in the US, traded about 15 times. assets in the US, traded about 15 times. So, that's pretty good. You get a double So, that's pretty good. You get a double So, that's pretty good. You get a double for basically management just sitting for basically management just sitting for basically management just sitting around and doing nothing. But if they around and doing nothing. But if they around and doing nothing. But if they continue to figure out ways to sign continue to figure out ways to sign continue to figure out ways to sign contracts with data centers at premium contracts with data centers at premium contracts with data centers at premium prices or if power prices go up. I mean prices or if power prices go up. I mean prices or if power prices go up. I mean the amazing thing right now is in the the amazing thing right now is in the the amazing thing right now is in the PJM where these guys operate, the power PJM where these guys operate, the power PJM where these guys operate, the power price is still too low to stimulate new price is still too low to stimulate new price is still too low to stimulate new capacity. The math still doesn't work, capacity. The math still doesn't work, capacity. The math still doesn't work, which is really mindboggling. So if which is really mindboggling. So if which is really mindboggling. So if power prices go up a bit, they do more power prices go up a bit, they do more power prices go up a bit, they do more deals, you get to $70 a share of deals, you get to $70 a share of deals, you get to $70 a share of recurring annual free cash flow, put a recurring annual free cash flow, put a recurring annual free cash flow, put a 15 multiple on that, that's,50. 15 multiple on that, that's,50. 15 multiple on that, that's,50. But then if they get into building power But then if they get into building power But then if they get into building power plants, right? And right now the plants, right? And right now the plants, right? And right now the regulator is telling these companies to regulator is telling these companies to regulator is telling these companies to go sit in a room, power producer, data go sit in a room, power producer, data go sit in a room, power producer, data center, come in a room, make a deal so center, come in a room, make a deal so center, come in a room, make a deal so that you build power and get a good that you build power and get a good that you build power and get a good return on it. And the data center gets return on it. And the data center gets return on it. And the data center gets their power gets a good return on it. their power gets a good return on it. their power gets a good return on it. And Talon is in a pole position to be And Talon is in a pole position to be And Talon is in a pole position to be able to do this. If they just build like able to do this. If they just build like able to do this. If they just build like 4 gawatt of the 100 gawatts that we 4 gawatt of the 100 gawatts that we 4 gawatt of the 100 gawatts that we need, you could get up to, you know, need, you could get up to, you know, need, you could get up to, you know, over $100 a share of free cash flow. The over $100 a share of free cash flow. The over $100 a share of free cash flow. The stocks in the high30s today. So, uh, go stocks in the high30s today. So, uh, go stocks in the high30s today. So, uh, go and buy the shares. It's a good and buy the shares. It's a good and buy the shares. It's a good speculation and, um, we can chat. speculation and, um, we can chat. speculation and, um, we can chat. >> All right. Not financial advice. Gavin, >> All right. Not financial advice. Gavin, >> All right. Not financial advice. Gavin, go. go. go. >> Gav and go. >> Gav and go. >> Gav and go. >> I just, just very curious like how do >> I just, just very curious like how do >> I just, just very curious like how do you think about regulatory risks here? you think about regulatory risks here? you think about regulatory risks here? Nobody likes their electricity prices Nobody likes their electricity prices Nobody likes their electricity prices going up. AI is an increasingly going up. AI is an increasingly going up. AI is an increasingly political issue just like how do you political issue just like how do you political issue just like how do you think about that risk? think about that risk? think about that risk? >> We need AI and we need to figure this >> We need AI and we need to figure this >> We need AI and we need to figure this out. And so there's different ways to out. And so there's different ways to out. And so there's different ways to skin a cat here, right? My personal view skin a cat here, right? My personal view skin a cat here, right? My personal view is during peak hours, right? If you go is during peak hours, right? If you go is during peak hours, right? If you go drive down a highway at 4 in the drive down a highway at 4 in the drive down a highway at 4 in the morning, you know, you would sit there morning, you know, you would sit there morning, you know, you would sit there and say, "Why do we have all this and say, "Why do we have all this and say, "Why do we have all this highway capacity? This is crazy." But highway capacity? This is crazy." But highway capacity? This is crazy." But then you go on that same highway at rush then you go on that same highway at rush then you go on that same highway at rush hour, you're like, "Oh, we don't have hour, you're like, "Oh, we don't have hour, you're like, "Oh, we don't have enough highway capacity. There's not enough highway capacity. There's not enough highway capacity. There's not enough lanes." Power is the same thing. enough lanes." Power is the same thing. enough lanes." Power is the same thing. There's only a few hours a day where you There's only a few hours a day where you There's only a few hours a day where you really stress the system. And so I think really stress the system. And so I think really stress the system. And so I think the working solution to get around this the working solution to get around this the working solution to get around this regulatory issue is you do the PPAs with regulatory issue is you do the PPAs with regulatory issue is you do the PPAs with the data centers. You force the data the data centers. You force the data the data centers. You force the data centers to throw a ton of battery behind centers to throw a ton of battery behind centers to throw a ton of battery behind it and some peakers just to get through it and some peakers just to get through it and some peakers just to get through that really intense period. And then uh that really intense period. And then uh that really intense period. And then uh that's a good band-aid solution until we that's a good band-aid solution until we that's a good band-aid solution until we build more power. So there's ways to do build more power. So there's ways to do build more power. So there's ways to do this. Human ingenuity is going to win this. Human ingenuity is going to win this. Human ingenuity is going to win here. We're going to get our data here. We're going to get our data here. We're going to get our data centers and consumer power bills are centers and consumer power bills are centers and consumer power bills are going to be, I think, relatively under going to be, I think, relatively under going to be, I think, relatively under control. They're going to go up, but control. They're going to go up, but control. They're going to go up, but they're going to be under control. Okay, they're going to be under control. Okay, they're going to be under control. Okay, Dan, I have three questions from the Dan, I have three questions from the Dan, I have three questions from the audience. Really good ones. Number one, audience. Really good ones. Number one, audience. Really good ones. Number one, does your thesis actually need behind does your thesis actually need behind does your thesis actually need behind the meter collocation to clear or is it the meter collocation to clear or is it the meter collocation to clear or is it just a bet that clean firm base load is just a bet that clean firm base load is just a bet that clean firm base load is scarce enough that it doesn't matter scarce enough that it doesn't matter scarce enough that it doesn't matter whether power flows in front of or whether power flows in front of or whether power flows in front of or behind the meter? It's the latter. And behind the meter? It's the latter. And behind the meter? It's the latter. And that's why I gave three scenarios, that's why I gave three scenarios, that's why I gave three scenarios, right? The $50 a share of earnings per right? The $50 a share of earnings per right? The $50 a share of earnings per share. Again, a high $300 stock, right? share. Again, a high $300 stock, right? share. Again, a high $300 stock, right? $50 a share of earnings. Nothing has to $50 a share of earnings. Nothing has to $50 a share of earnings. Nothing has to happen. You just sit, right? And you happen. You just sit, right? And you happen. You just sit, right? And you double your money. Now, if you get more double your money. Now, if you get more double your money. Now, if you get more behind the meter or even front of the behind the meter or even front of the behind the meter or even front of the meter, that's how you get up to that $70 meter, that's how you get up to that $70 meter, that's how you get up to that $70 a share of earnings from 50. And then if a share of earnings from 50. And then if a share of earnings from 50. And then if you get up to the 70, but start building you get up to the 70, but start building you get up to the 70, but start building new capacity, then you get to the $100 new capacity, then you get to the $100 new capacity, then you get to the $100 plus. plus. plus. >> Okay. Question two from Brad. How do you >> Okay. Question two from Brad. How do you >> Okay. Question two from Brad. How do you think about competition for power from think about competition for power from think about competition for power from things like fuel cells, gas turbines, things like fuel cells, gas turbines, things like fuel cells, gas turbines, aerodyit turbines, orbital compute, and aerodyit turbines, orbital compute, and aerodyit turbines, orbital compute, and other sort of IPs, independent power other sort of IPs, independent power other sort of IPs, independent power producers. producers. producers. >> We need all of it. We need all of it. We >> We need all of it. We need all of it. We >> We need all of it. We need all of it. We we you know fuel cells and you know the we you know fuel cells and you know the we you know fuel cells and you know the Caterpillar solar turbines these are Caterpillar solar turbines these are Caterpillar solar turbines these are fantastic bridge solutions but the cost fantastic bridge solutions but the cost fantastic bridge solutions but the cost to run these things the LCOE is like to run these things the LCOE is like to run these things the LCOE is like through the roof but you you know look through the roof but you you know look through the roof but you you know look to build a $50 billion data center you to build a $50 billion data center you to build a $50 billion data center you don't want it to sit idle for 3 years don't want it to sit idle for 3 years don't want it to sit idle for 3 years waiting for your base load CCGT so you waiting for your base load CCGT so you waiting for your base load CCGT so you do whatever it takes you don't give a do whatever it takes you don't give a do whatever it takes you don't give a crap what you pay for that bridge crap what you pay for that bridge crap what you pay for that bridge solution and so we're finding ways solution and so we're finding ways solution and so we're finding ways through fuel cells through uh you know through fuel cells through uh you know through fuel cells through uh you know Caterpillar solar turbines hopefully Caterpillar solar turbines hopefully Caterpillar solar turbines hopefully through orbital data centers where we through orbital data centers where we through orbital data centers where we can alleviate this because I want AI to can alleviate this because I want AI to can alleviate this because I want AI to happen in a really big way and we're happen in a really big way and we're happen in a really big way and we're going to need all the above. going to need all the above. going to need all the above. >> Okay, question three. By the way, great >> Okay, question three. By the way, great >> Okay, question three. By the way, great questions guys. Thank you for these. questions guys. Thank you for these. questions guys. Thank you for these. What is the right terminal multiple for What is the right terminal multiple for What is the right terminal multiple for Talon if the business mix shifts from Talon if the business mix shifts from Talon if the business mix shifts from merchant IP to contracted merchant IP to contracted merchant IP to contracted infrastructure? infrastructure? infrastructure? >> Fabulous question >> Fabulous question >> Fabulous question >> and and and the addendum here and what >> and and and the addendum here and what >> and and and the addendum here and what percentage of EBIDA percentage of EBIDA percentage of EBIDA needs to be contracted before the market needs to be contracted before the market needs to be contracted before the market should rerate it? So, that's a great should rerate it? So, that's a great should rerate it? So, that's a great question and and I only had six minutes question and and I only had six minutes question and and I only had six minutes to do this and I think I blew through my to do this and I think I blew through my to do this and I think I blew through my time so I couldn't get into this kind of time so I couldn't get into this kind of time so I couldn't get into this kind of detail, but it's something I would have detail, but it's something I would have detail, but it's something I would have really wanted to get into. So, whoever really wanted to get into. So, whoever really wanted to get into. So, whoever asked that, thank you. Uh, I just use asked that, thank you. Uh, I just use asked that, thank you. Uh, I just use the 15 multiple because it's sort of a the 15 multiple because it's sort of a the 15 multiple because it's sort of a blended multiple between the contracted blended multiple between the contracted blended multiple between the contracted stuff, which will get a big premium stuff, which will get a big premium stuff, which will get a big premium multiple because, you know, it's a bond multiple because, you know, it's a bond multiple because, you know, it's a bond like cash flow stream and bond like cash like cash flow stream and bond like cash like cash flow stream and bond like cash flow streams trade at a small spread to flow streams trade at a small spread to flow streams trade at a small spread to treasuries and so treasuries if they're treasuries and so treasuries if they're treasuries and so treasuries if they're at 5% should trade at 20 times plus some at 5% should trade at 20 times plus some at 5% should trade at 20 times plus some growth or whatever, plus or minus. the growth or whatever, plus or minus. the growth or whatever, plus or minus. the uncontracted stuff, the merchant stuff uncontracted stuff, the merchant stuff uncontracted stuff, the merchant stuff that has spot market exposure is more that has spot market exposure is more that has spot market exposure is more volatile, less visible, that should volatile, less visible, that should volatile, less visible, that should trade at a lower multiple. We can get trade at a lower multiple. We can get trade at a lower multiple. We can get into the minutia, but just suffice to into the minutia, but just suffice to into the minutia, but just suffice to say, the more contracts, the higher the say, the more contracts, the higher the say, the more contracts, the higher the multiple, the less the lower the multiple, the less the lower the multiple, the less the lower the multiple. Use 15 times as a good rule of multiple. Use 15 times as a good rule of multiple. Use 15 times as a good rule of thumb, and you'll probably get to the thumb, and you'll probably get to the thumb, and you'll probably get to the right answer, which is what I used. right answer, which is what I used. right answer, which is what I used. >> That last question from Daniel Sherer. >> That last question from Daniel Sherer. >> That last question from Daniel Sherer. Thank you for that, Thank you for that, Thank you for that, >> Dan. Thank you. That was great. >> Dan. Thank you. That was great. >> Dan. Thank you. That was great. >> Great. Thanks. My name is Oleg Nelman. I'm the founder My name is Oleg Nelman. I'm the founder and managing director of Eco1 Capital, a and managing director of Eco1 Capital, a and managing director of Eco1 Capital, a San Francisco based valueoriented San Francisco based valueoriented San Francisco based valueoriented biotech fund uh that I started about 13 biotech fund uh that I started about 13 biotech fund uh that I started about 13 years ago. Thanks a lot to the besties years ago. Thanks a lot to the besties years ago. Thanks a lot to the besties for having me here. I'm a huge fan of for having me here. I'm a huge fan of for having me here. I'm a huge fan of the pod like I'm sure all of us are and the pod like I'm sure all of us are and the pod like I'm sure all of us are and I know how challenged Science Corner can I know how challenged Science Corner can I know how challenged Science Corner can get. So, I wrote this in a way that even get. So, I wrote this in a way that even get. So, I wrote this in a way that even David Saxs would appreciate and pay David Saxs would appreciate and pay David Saxs would appreciate and pay attention to if if he were here. attention to if if he were here. attention to if if he were here. >> Well, paradoxically, he's taking a nap, >> Well, paradoxically, he's taking a nap, >> Well, paradoxically, he's taking a nap, which is what he normally does during which is what he normally does during which is what he normally does during science corners. science corners. science corners. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Generally speaking, investing in biotech >> Generally speaking, investing in biotech >> Generally speaking, investing in biotech companies is a horrible idea sandwiched companies is a horrible idea sandwiched companies is a horrible idea sandwiched somewhere between movies, wineries, and somewhere between movies, wineries, and somewhere between movies, wineries, and spaxs. In fact, our sector often feels a spaxs. In fact, our sector often feels a spaxs. In fact, our sector often feels a lot more like a casino than an actual lot more like a casino than an actual lot more like a casino than an actual financial market. And most of the financial market. And most of the financial market. And most of the tourists who are investing are playing tourists who are investing are playing tourists who are investing are playing the slots. Of course, at Eco1, we consider Of course, at Eco1, we consider ourselves poker players in a sector ourselves poker players in a sector ourselves poker players in a sector where virtually everyone else is a where virtually everyone else is a where virtually everyone else is a momentum investor betting on science. We momentum investor betting on science. We momentum investor betting on science. We focus on margin of safety. We're one of focus on margin of safety. We're one of focus on margin of safety. We're one of the few funds not managed by PhDs or the few funds not managed by PhDs or the few funds not managed by PhDs or MDs, and that's by design because we MDs, and that's by design because we MDs, and that's by design because we don't want to fall in love with the don't want to fall in love with the don't want to fall in love with the science. We fall in love with the science. We fall in love with the science. We fall in love with the riskreward. And like the slide says, we riskreward. And like the slide says, we riskreward. And like the slide says, we want to monetize other kids science want to monetize other kids science want to monetize other kids science projects. projects. projects. This is my 25th year investing in This is my 25th year investing in This is my 25th year investing in biotech. I started my career with an biotech. I started my career with an biotech. I started my career with an 11-year stint at another fund and 11-year stint at another fund and 11-year stint at another fund and launched Eco R1 in 2013, humble launched Eco R1 in 2013, humble launched Eco R1 in 2013, humble beginnings with 13 million. Since beginnings with 13 million. Since beginnings with 13 million. Since inception, we've 10xed to our investors inception, we've 10xed to our investors inception, we've 10xed to our investors and annualized at 20%. And today we have and annualized at 20%. And today we have and annualized at 20%. And today we have about two and a half billion under about two and a half billion under about two and a half billion under management. management. management. We're lucky to have long-term partners, We're lucky to have long-term partners, We're lucky to have long-term partners, many of whom are biotech entrepreneurs many of whom are biotech entrepreneurs many of whom are biotech entrepreneurs themselves, and have been with us since themselves, and have been with us since themselves, and have been with us since day one. And we recently reopened for day one. And we recently reopened for day one. And we recently reopened for the first time in four years. Today I'm going to tell you about a Today I'm going to tell you about a company that's on the front lines of the company that's on the front lines of the company that's on the front lines of the war on cancer. Military terminology has war on cancer. Military terminology has war on cancer. Military terminology has been used when descri describing been used when descri describing been used when descri describing treatments for the disease since the treatments for the disease since the treatments for the disease since the early 70s when President Nixon signed early 70s when President Nixon signed early 70s when President Nixon signed the National Cancer Act. The warfare analogy is actually perfect. The warfare analogy is actually perfect. The warfare actually is actually perfect The warfare actually is actually perfect The warfare actually is actually perfect for cancer because both domains are for cancer because both domains are for cancer because both domains are trying to accomplish the exact same trying to accomplish the exact same trying to accomplish the exact same thing. find the enemy, figure out the thing. find the enemy, figure out the thing. find the enemy, figure out the best weapon to kill them, and have best weapon to kill them, and have best weapon to kill them, and have minimal unwanted casualties along the minimal unwanted casualties along the minimal unwanted casualties along the way. way. way. First, a quick history of how this war First, a quick history of how this war First, a quick history of how this war has evolved. has evolved. has evolved. Early surgical cancer treatment and Early surgical cancer treatment and Early surgical cancer treatment and radiation was akin to a medieval siege. radiation was akin to a medieval siege. radiation was akin to a medieval siege. Level the entire castle, burn the Level the entire castle, burn the Level the entire castle, burn the surrounding village, and hope the enemy surrounding village, and hope the enemy surrounding village, and hope the enemy was left somewhere in the rubble. was left somewhere in the rubble. was left somewhere in the rubble. Chemo actually evolved from an Chemo actually evolved from an Chemo actually evolved from an accidental observation during World War accidental observation during World War accidental observation during World War I that mustard gas killed rapidly I that mustard gas killed rapidly I that mustard gas killed rapidly dividing tissue. Tumor cells divide dividing tissue. Tumor cells divide dividing tissue. Tumor cells divide fast, so doctors would flood a patient's fast, so doctors would flood a patient's fast, so doctors would flood a patient's body with chemo and hoped it killed the body with chemo and hoped it killed the body with chemo and hoped it killed the enemy faster than it killed allies. enemy faster than it killed allies. enemy faster than it killed allies. Unfortunately, hair, skin, gut, and Unfortunately, hair, skin, gut, and Unfortunately, hair, skin, gut, and marrow cells also divide quickly, and marrow cells also divide quickly, and marrow cells also divide quickly, and the poison doesn't discriminate. the poison doesn't discriminate. the poison doesn't discriminate. First generation targeted therapies were First generation targeted therapies were First generation targeted therapies were next, like a GPS guided munition. next, like a GPS guided munition. next, like a GPS guided munition. Instead of carpet bombing every dividing Instead of carpet bombing every dividing Instead of carpet bombing every dividing cell, you identify the enemy's command cell, you identify the enemy's command cell, you identify the enemy's command and control center and destroy it. The and control center and destroy it. The and control center and destroy it. The problem, like with any weapon, is that problem, like with any weapon, is that problem, like with any weapon, is that the enemy adapts and hides. And in the enemy adapts and hides. And in the enemy adapts and hides. And in cancer, these are called resistant cancer, these are called resistant cancer, these are called resistant mutations. Imunotherapy was first introduced to Imunotherapy was first introduced to patients a decade ago. With IIO, you patients a decade ago. With IIO, you patients a decade ago. With IIO, you don't send in your own troops. You don't send in your own troops. You don't send in your own troops. You recruit local allies, also known as T- recruit local allies, also known as T- recruit local allies, also known as T- cells, and let them do the fighting for cells, and let them do the fighting for cells, and let them do the fighting for you. Spectacular when it works, but you. Spectacular when it works, but you. Spectacular when it works, but highly dependent on the terrain or the highly dependent on the terrain or the highly dependent on the terrain or the tumor micro environment. This brings me tumor micro environment. This brings me tumor micro environment. This brings me to the reason we're here today. to the reason we're here today. to the reason we're here today. Modern-day radio pharmaceuticals. Like a Modern-day radio pharmaceuticals. Like a Modern-day radio pharmaceuticals. Like a swarm of micro drones small enough to swarm of micro drones small enough to swarm of micro drones small enough to navigate the bloodstream and find their navigate the bloodstream and find their navigate the bloodstream and find their target by molecular recognition, then target by molecular recognition, then target by molecular recognition, then detonate a precisely sized warhead with detonate a precisely sized warhead with detonate a precisely sized warhead with a blast radius of 100 microns or the a blast radius of 100 microns or the a blast radius of 100 microns or the diameter of a single cell. An autonomous diameter of a single cell. An autonomous diameter of a single cell. An autonomous assassination with the force of a bunker assassination with the force of a bunker assassination with the force of a bunker buster and minimum collateral damage. buster and minimum collateral damage. buster and minimum collateral damage. The company I'm going to tell you about The company I'm going to tell you about The company I'm going to tell you about today is Actis Oncology. The ticker is today is Actis Oncology. The ticker is today is Actis Oncology. The ticker is AKTS. The company has a billion dollar AKTS. The company has a billion dollar AKTS. The company has a billion dollar market cap, a $500 million enterprise market cap, a $500 million enterprise market cap, a $500 million enterprise value, and a stockpile of cash, which value, and a stockpile of cash, which value, and a stockpile of cash, which should last them over 3 years. Long past should last them over 3 years. Long past should last them over 3 years. Long past critical milestones that are coming next critical milestones that are coming next critical milestones that are coming next year. Actis was started five years ago, year. Actis was started five years ago, year. Actis was started five years ago, but recently went public with a $300 but recently went public with a $300 but recently went public with a $300 million IPO that was 18 times million IPO that was 18 times million IPO that was 18 times oversubscribed and backstopped with a oversubscribed and backstopped with a oversubscribed and backstopped with a hund00 million order by Eli Liy, the hund00 million order by Eli Liy, the hund00 million order by Eli Liy, the folks who bring you all the weight loss folks who bring you all the weight loss folks who bring you all the weight loss drugs. The company has designed a drugs. The company has designed a drugs. The company has designed a platform that can carry any radioactive platform that can carry any radioactive platform that can carry any radioactive payload, is complex enough to go after a payload, is complex enough to go after a payload, is complex enough to go after a variety of targets, and small enough to variety of targets, and small enough to variety of targets, and small enough to clear your body with minimal side clear your body with minimal side clear your body with minimal side effects. The beautiful thing about this effects. The beautiful thing about this effects. The beautiful thing about this approach is that physicians can verify approach is that physicians can verify approach is that physicians can verify target engagement in early clinical target engagement in early clinical target engagement in early clinical trials with imaging. This significantly trials with imaging. This significantly trials with imaging. This significantly derisks clinical development because you derisks clinical development because you derisks clinical development because you know the drug is getting to the tumor. know the drug is getting to the tumor. know the drug is getting to the tumor. Another de-risking strategy for their Another de-risking strategy for their Another de-risking strategy for their first few programs Actis chose known first few programs Actis chose known first few programs Actis chose known valid targets like nectin 4 and B7H3. valid targets like nectin 4 and B7H3. valid targets like nectin 4 and B7H3. Nectin 4 is critical in bladder cancer Nectin 4 is critical in bladder cancer Nectin 4 is critical in bladder cancer and the company's second program and the company's second program and the company's second program targeting B7H3 is even more ambitious targeting B7H3 is even more ambitious targeting B7H3 is even more ambitious expressed on every major solid tumor expressed on every major solid tumor expressed on every major solid tumor including the big three prostate, including the big three prostate, including the big three prostate, colurectyl and lung. Actis started colurectyl and lung. Actis started colurectyl and lung. Actis started clinical trials last year clinical trials last year clinical trials last year and is publicly guided to initial and is publicly guided to initial and is publicly guided to initial clinical data in both of these lead clinical data in both of these lead clinical data in both of these lead programs in 2027 with Nectton 4 coming programs in 2027 with Nectton 4 coming programs in 2027 with Nectton 4 coming as early as Q1. So you won't have to as early as Q1. So you won't have to as early as Q1. So you won't have to wait long. If either program shows a wait long. If either program shows a wait long. If either program shows a signal, the company is likely to get signal, the company is likely to get signal, the company is likely to get value not only for those programs but value not only for those programs but value not only for those programs but the entire mini protein platform. This the entire mini protein platform. This the entire mini protein platform. This is the holy grail in biotech, getting is the holy grail in biotech, getting is the holy grail in biotech, getting value simply for the promise of what value simply for the promise of what value simply for the promise of what might come. What's even more compelling is there's What's even more compelling is there's an amazing amount of interest in an amazing amount of interest in an amazing amount of interest in radiotherapies from pharma. The big ones radiotherapies from pharma. The big ones radiotherapies from pharma. The big ones including Bristol, Novartis, Bayer, and including Bristol, Novartis, Bayer, and including Bristol, Novartis, Bayer, and Lily who backs stop the Actis IPO have Lily who backs stop the Actis IPO have Lily who backs stop the Actis IPO have been building radiotherapy capabilities been building radiotherapy capabilities been building radiotherapy capabilities and they're hungry for assets to add to and they're hungry for assets to add to and they're hungry for assets to add to their pipelines. There's been 15 billion their pipelines. There's been 15 billion their pipelines. There's been 15 billion in M&A and dealmaking in radiotherapy in in M&A and dealmaking in radiotherapy in in M&A and dealmaking in radiotherapy in the last few years and we're very much the last few years and we're very much the last few years and we're very much in the early innings. The neatest thing in the early innings. The neatest thing in the early innings. The neatest thing about this modality is that it's very about this modality is that it's very about this modality is that it's very hard to replicate. Generics generally hard to replicate. Generics generally hard to replicate. Generics generally don't traffic in radioarma and because don't traffic in radioarma and because don't traffic in radioarma and because the class involves radioisotopes it's the class involves radioisotopes it's the class involves radioisotopes it's off limits to China. So unlike most of off limits to China. So unlike most of off limits to China. So unlike most of biotech there's a real moat biotech there's a real moat biotech there's a real moat and now the obligatory safety warning. and now the obligatory safety warning. and now the obligatory safety warning. Axis is not for everyone. You should Axis is not for everyone. You should Axis is not for everyone. You should consult your biotech analyst before consult your biotech analyst before consult your biotech analyst before purchasing access. Initiating a position purchasing access. Initiating a position purchasing access. Initiating a position may cause increased anxiety reduced may cause increased anxiety reduced may cause increased anxiety reduced sleep through the night. Serious sleep through the night. Serious sleep through the night. Serious sometimes drops in stock rates occur in sometimes drops in stock rates occur in sometimes drops in stock rates occur in biotech. Immediately after investing may biotech. Immediately after investing may biotech. Immediately after investing may experience sudden volatility due to lang experience sudden volatility due to lang experience sudden volatility due to lang competitors. If stock declines are competitors. If stock declines are competitors. If stock declines are experienced no fun reason. Call your experienced no fun reason. Call your experienced no fun reason. Call your broker immediately to increase your broker immediately to increase your broker immediately to increase your position. Remember serious safety position. Remember serious safety position. Remember serious safety concerns have risen in other companies concerns have risen in other companies concerns have risen in other companies local development programs. While no local development programs. While no local development programs. While no safety concerns occur with any access safety concerns occur with any access safety concerns occur with any access program date, they may in the future. program date, they may in the future. program date, they may in the future. The use of many proteins delivered for The use of many proteins delivered for The use of many proteins delivered for sales has not been proven. Access is no sales has not been proven. Access is no sales has not been proven. Access is no market products and thus no referring market products and thus no referring market products and thus no referring revenue solution for equity offerings revenue solution for equity offerings revenue solution for equity offerings may occur. In the event of a secondary may occur. In the event of a secondary may occur. In the event of a secondary offering, immediately schedule a call offering, immediately schedule a call offering, immediately schedule a call with access management team to discuss with access management team to discuss with access management team to discuss placing an order. It's notoriously challenging to value It's notoriously challenging to value biotech companies because when you risk biotech companies because when you risk biotech companies because when you risk adjust and discount back, you pretty adjust and discount back, you pretty adjust and discount back, you pretty quickly get to zero. For earlier stage quickly get to zero. For earlier stage quickly get to zero. For earlier stage opportunities like this, we like to opportunities like this, we like to opportunities like this, we like to triangulate. We think Actis could be triangulate. We think Actis could be triangulate. We think Actis could be worth 10 billion or $200 per share if worth 10 billion or $200 per share if worth 10 billion or $200 per share if even one of their programs makes it to even one of their programs makes it to even one of their programs makes it to market. And in this case, you have a lot market. And in this case, you have a lot market. And in this case, you have a lot of outs. of outs. of outs. >> I'm not familiar with why radioisotopes >> I'm not familiar with why radioisotopes >> I'm not familiar with why radioisotopes are off limits to China. So in this are off limits to China. So in this are off limits to China. So in this particular case um Actis' radioisotope particular case um Actis' radioisotope particular case um Actis' radioisotope payload is actinium and actinium is payload is actinium and actinium is payload is actinium and actinium is manufactured from radium 233 which was manufactured from radium 233 which was manufactured from radium 233 which was used in our own nuclear programs in the used in our own nuclear programs in the used in our own nuclear programs in the US in the in the 50s and 60s. So it's a US in the in the 50s and 60s. So it's a US in the in the 50s and 60s. So it's a waste product from there. So actinum is waste product from there. So actinum is waste product from there. So actinum is not even available in other countries not even available in other countries not even available in other countries like China because they had a completely like China because they had a completely like China because they had a completely different uh their own program was different uh their own program was different uh their own program was completely different with enriched completely different with enriched completely different with enriched uranium and plutonium. But the but the uranium and plutonium. But the but the uranium and plutonium. But the but the the risk for a lot of biotech and China the risk for a lot of biotech and China the risk for a lot of biotech and China replication came about that Amgen Sophi replication came about that Amgen Sophi replication came about that Amgen Sophi Supreme Court case, didn't it? Where Supreme Court case, didn't it? Where Supreme Court case, didn't it? Where they could you could make a small they could you could make a small they could you could make a small because it basically said all patents because it basically said all patents because it basically said all patents are composition of matter patents. So are composition of matter patents. So are composition of matter patents. So you could change one amino acid get you could change one amino acid get you could change one amino acid get around the patent and China's basically around the patent and China's basically around the patent and China's basically done that with a lot of biologics that done that with a lot of biologics that done that with a lot of biologics that are patented in the US and Europe. They are patented in the US and Europe. They are patented in the US and Europe. They just rip them off and then you attach just rip them off and then you attach just rip them off and then you attach the radio emmitting the radio emmitting the radio emmitting >> uh radioisotope to the molecule and you >> uh radioisotope to the molecule and you >> uh radioisotope to the molecule and you can kind of chase it. That's kind of why can kind of chase it. That's kind of why can kind of chase it. That's kind of why a lot of biotech's been depressed. Is a lot of biotech's been depressed. Is a lot of biotech's been depressed. Is that not true? that not true? that not true? >> Yeah. So with with with radioisotopes >> Yeah. So with with with radioisotopes >> Yeah. So with with with radioisotopes again because you have to you have to again because you have to you have to again because you have to you have to have a a manufacturing supply that you have a a manufacturing supply that you have a a manufacturing supply that you have to source locally in the US. Um have to source locally in the US. Um have to source locally in the US. Um we haven't seen any competition coming we haven't seen any competition coming we haven't seen any competition coming from China at all. from China at all. from China at all. >> And if if they have a successful readout >> And if if they have a successful readout >> And if if they have a successful readout though, would it not be like the case though, would it not be like the case though, would it not be like the case that someone in China would say, "Hey, that someone in China would say, "Hey, that someone in China would say, "Hey, let's go get some of the necessary let's go get some of the necessary let's go get some of the necessary radioisotopes." And radioisotopes." And radioisotopes." And >> they're they're I'm sure they can do it >> they're they're I'm sure they can do it >> they're they're I'm sure they can do it for the Chinese market, but in terms of for the Chinese market, but in terms of for the Chinese market, but in terms of then transfer transferring that over then transfer transferring that over then transfer transferring that over here, we we haven't we haven't seen it here, we we haven't we haven't seen it here, we we haven't we haven't seen it or kind of any wind of it at all. or kind of any wind of it at all. or kind of any wind of it at all. >> And so then my last question, I'm sorry >> And so then my last question, I'm sorry >> And so then my last question, I'm sorry for monopolizing. Why do you think the for monopolizing. Why do you think the for monopolizing. Why do you think the markets discounted the value so much markets discounted the value so much markets discounted the value so much since the IPO? since the IPO? since the IPO? >> Oh gosh. Given the return in biotech >> Oh gosh. Given the return in biotech >> Oh gosh. Given the return in biotech >> valuation, it's pretty classic biotech. >> valuation, it's pretty classic biotech. >> valuation, it's pretty classic biotech. So it's traded flat since the IPO. uh So it's traded flat since the IPO. uh So it's traded flat since the IPO. uh biotech investors are so insanely biotech investors are so insanely biotech investors are so insanely short-term oriented that even though short-term oriented that even though short-term oriented that even though we're now call it eight or nine months we're now call it eight or nine months we're now call it eight or nine months from data that's still way too long and from data that's still way too long and from data that's still way too long and so our expectation is the folks will so our expectation is the folks will so our expectation is the folks will start accumulating this in the second start accumulating this in the second start accumulating this in the second half in anticipation of the data coming half in anticipation of the data coming half in anticipation of the data coming in the first quarter in the first quarter in the first quarter >> Gavin you had a question >> Gavin you had a question >> Gavin you had a question >> yeah sure so I in in in the distant past >> yeah sure so I in in in the distant past >> yeah sure so I in in in the distant past I ran a biioharmaceutical fund uh and I ran a biioharmaceutical fund uh and I ran a biioharmaceutical fund uh and you know it's a very hard job you know it's a very hard job you know it's a very hard job congratulations on those numbers but I congratulations on those numbers but I congratulations on those numbers but I ran that fund right after the human g ran that fund right after the human g ran that fund right after the human g genome had been sequenced and there was genome had been sequenced and there was genome had been sequenced and there was an expectation that the sequencing of an expectation that the sequencing of an expectation that the sequencing of the genome was going to lead to this the genome was going to lead to this the genome was going to lead to this explosion in therapies personalized explosion in therapies personalized explosion in therapies personalized medicines etc etc and I don't think medicines etc etc and I don't think medicines etc etc and I don't think broadly speaking we've made as much broadly speaking we've made as much broadly speaking we've made as much progress over the last 25 years as maybe progress over the last 25 years as maybe progress over the last 25 years as maybe people thought in the early 2000s and my people thought in the early 2000s and my people thought in the early 2000s and my hypothesis is that the genome is too big hypothesis is that the genome is too big hypothesis is that the genome is too big of a problem space for the human mind or of a problem space for the human mind or of a problem space for the human mind or software written by humans and AI is software written by humans and AI is software written by humans and AI is going to unlock a lot of kind of going to unlock a lot of kind of going to unlock a lot of kind of revolution utionary therapies. So my revolution utionary therapies. So my revolution utionary therapies. So my question to you, I will just admit it's question to you, I will just admit it's question to you, I will just admit it's a selfish question. It is not about your a selfish question. It is not about your a selfish question. It is not about your stock pitch, which is great. It's what stock pitch, which is great. It's what stock pitch, which is great. It's what do you think the odds are that in the do you think the odds are that in the do you think the odds are that in the lifetimes of everyone in this room, the lifetimes of everyone in this room, the lifetimes of everyone in this room, the average human lifespan in a developed average human lifespan in a developed average human lifespan in a developed country extends well past 100 to 125, country extends well past 100 to 125, country extends well past 100 to 125, 150. I would take the over on that uh in 150. I would take the over on that uh in 150. I would take the over on that uh in no small part because we already have no small part because we already have no small part because we already have one of the best longevity drugs out one of the best longevity drugs out one of the best longevity drugs out there and folks don't even realize it in there and folks don't even realize it in there and folks don't even realize it in the glip ones and the obesity drugs. So the glip ones and the obesity drugs. So the glip ones and the obesity drugs. So one of the only things that's ever been one of the only things that's ever been one of the only things that's ever been shown in act with actual data to extend shown in act with actual data to extend shown in act with actual data to extend life is caloric restriction and that's life is caloric restriction and that's life is caloric restriction and that's literally what all the obesity drugs do. literally what all the obesity drugs do. literally what all the obesity drugs do. So I'm sure half the people in this room So I'm sure half the people in this room So I'm sure half the people in this room are on one of them. Uh and that's just are on one of them. Uh and that's just are on one of them. Uh and that's just the beginning because it's trained the beginning because it's trained the beginning because it's trained people that you can inject yourself with people that you can inject yourself with people that you can inject yourself with something and have healthy living something and have healthy living something and have healthy living through pharmaceuticals. So I I think through pharmaceuticals. So I I think through pharmaceuticals. So I I think that's only going to continue. that's only going to continue. that's only going to continue. >> Oh, I got two questions from the >> Oh, I got two questions from the >> Oh, I got two questions from the audience. First one, as the launch costs audience. First one, as the launch costs audience. First one, as the launch costs per kilogram continue to fall, is there per kilogram continue to fall, is there per kilogram continue to fall, is there a credible pathway to use space and a credible pathway to use space and a credible pathway to use space and microgravity as a therapeutic variable microgravity as a therapeutic variable microgravity as a therapeutic variable given that cancer cells appear to behave given that cancer cells appear to behave given that cancer cells appear to behave differently in lowgravity environments? differently in lowgravity environments? differently in lowgravity environments? >> That is a great question that's probably >> That is a great question that's probably >> That is a great question that's probably not applicable to this. not applicable to this. not applicable to this. >> Okay. And then the second question, what >> Okay. And then the second question, what >> Okay. And then the second question, what would be a technological breakthrough would be a technological breakthrough would be a technological breakthrough that could disrupt precision that could disrupt precision that could disrupt precision radiotherapy as a result of AI at scale radiotherapy as a result of AI at scale radiotherapy as a result of AI at scale to drug development and precancerous to drug development and precancerous to drug development and precancerous screen? screen? screen? >> Yeah, another awesome question. There's >> Yeah, another awesome question. There's >> Yeah, another awesome question. There's a a small skunks work project within a a small skunks work project within a a small skunks work project within Actis AI project. So with all these Actis AI project. So with all these Actis AI project. So with all these biotech companies, they have their biotech companies, they have their biotech companies, they have their little proprietary data sets that they little proprietary data sets that they little proprietary data sets that they hope to leverage with various insights. hope to leverage with various insights. hope to leverage with various insights. So a company like this with their many So a company like this with their many So a company like this with their many proteins and everything else they're proteins and everything else they're proteins and everything else they're trying to accomplish, they have their trying to accomplish, they have their trying to accomplish, they have their own little tiny group of PhD data own little tiny group of PhD data own little tiny group of PhD data scientist nerds who are seeing if they scientist nerds who are seeing if they scientist nerds who are seeing if they can leverage that in a pretty decent can leverage that in a pretty decent can leverage that in a pretty decent way. Is it so it's been really hard to way. Is it so it's been really hard to way. Is it so it's been really hard to get CARTT in solid tumors? Um is it the get CARTT in solid tumors? Um is it the get CARTT in solid tumors? Um is it the case that these kind of personalized case that these kind of personalized case that these kind of personalized uh uh peptide based imunotherap uh uh uh peptide based imunotherap uh uh uh peptide based imunotherap uh therapies are showing some efficacy in therapies are showing some efficacy in therapies are showing some efficacy in some solid tumors and is that uh a space some solid tumors and is that uh a space some solid tumors and is that uh a space that's going to expand and kind of that's going to expand and kind of that's going to expand and kind of intersect here? intersect here? intersect here? >> What's most promising that I think a lot >> What's most promising that I think a lot >> What's most promising that I think a lot of folks have probably heard of is uh uh of folks have probably heard of is uh uh of folks have probably heard of is uh uh a new drug for pancreatic cancer from a a new drug for pancreatic cancer from a a new drug for pancreatic cancer from a company called Revmed was just another company called Revmed was just another company called Revmed was just another targeted therapy. So for now there's not targeted therapy. So for now there's not targeted therapy. So for now there's not a huge amount of progress from from a huge amount of progress from from a huge amount of progress from from peptides. And have you looked at Droins peptides. And have you looked at Droins peptides. And have you looked at Droins before? These kind of right-handed before? These kind of right-handed before? These kind of right-handed proteins that seem to be able to proteins that seem to be able to proteins that seem to be able to penetrate solid tumors. penetrate solid tumors. penetrate solid tumors. >> Well, so one of the one of the neat >> Well, so one of the one of the neat >> Well, so one of the one of the neat things about these mini proteins is things about these mini proteins is things about these mini proteins is they're hopefully of the right size to they're hopefully of the right size to they're hopefully of the right size to be able to deliver their payload inside be able to deliver their payload inside be able to deliver their payload inside of the tumors. of the tumors. of the tumors. >> Incredible. Oleg, thank you. >> Incredible. Oleg, thank you. >> Incredible. Oleg, thank you. >> Thank you. >> By the way, by the way, somebody just >> By the way, by the way, somebody just yoloed into the stocks while Oleg was on yoloed into the stocks while Oleg was on yoloed into the stocks while Oleg was on stage. It's up 6%. like the L. Don't do stage. It's up 6%. like the L. Don't do stage. It's up 6%. like the L. Don't do that while we're all trying to buy as that while we're all trying to buy as that while we're all trying to buy as well. Please come on. well. Please come on. well. Please come on. >> Morning everyone. My name is Kyle >> Morning everyone. My name is Kyle >> Morning everyone. My name is Kyle Samani. Uh thank you for being with us Samani. Uh thank you for being with us Samani. Uh thank you for being with us at the all liquidity today. Thanks to at the all liquidity today. Thanks to at the all liquidity today. Thanks to the besties for organizing. Today we're the besties for organizing. Today we're the besties for organizing. Today we're going to be talking about a little known going to be talking about a little known going to be talking about a little known asset, a little crypto asset called asset, a little crypto asset called asset, a little crypto asset called Geonet. Uh which is building the rails Geonet. Uh which is building the rails Geonet. Uh which is building the rails for AI. So let's jump in. Quick bit for AI. So let's jump in. Quick bit for AI. So let's jump in. Quick bit about me. Uh I founded a firm called about me. Uh I founded a firm called about me. Uh I founded a firm called Multicoin Capital about eight and a half Multicoin Capital about eight and a half Multicoin Capital about eight and a half years ago. I stepped down a few months years ago. I stepped down a few months years ago. I stepped down a few months ago. Um, and in my time there, I was ago. Um, and in my time there, I was ago. Um, and in my time there, I was probably most well known for, uh, probably most well known for, uh, probably most well known for, uh, leading all three rounds of investment leading all three rounds of investment leading all three rounds of investment in Salana prior to Salana's network in Salana prior to Salana's network in Salana prior to Salana's network launch, uh, in 2020. Um, I've been deep launch, uh, in 2020. Um, I've been deep launch, uh, in 2020. Um, I've been deep in the crypto space for a very long in the crypto space for a very long in the crypto space for a very long time. Uh, and I thought this would be a time. Uh, and I thought this would be a time. Uh, and I thought this would be a very natural forum to talk about a very very natural forum to talk about a very very natural forum to talk about a very interesting investment at the interesting investment at the interesting investment at the intersection of crypto and AI. Uh, also intersection of crypto and AI. Uh, also intersection of crypto and AI. Uh, also big shout out to David Sax. big shout out to David Sax. big shout out to David Sax. Unfortunately, he's not here, but, uh, Unfortunately, he's not here, but, uh, Unfortunately, he's not here, but, uh, David did seed multicoin uh, back in the David did seed multicoin uh, back in the David did seed multicoin uh, back in the day. So, thank you, David, for believing day. So, thank you, David, for believing day. So, thank you, David, for believing in me very early. All right, let's get in me very early. All right, let's get in me very early. All right, let's get into geoet. So the way to understand into geoet. So the way to understand into geoet. So the way to understand Geonet first is to look at GPS um Geonet first is to look at GPS um Geonet first is to look at GPS um probably everyone in this room has been probably everyone in this room has been probably everyone in this room has been in the situation on the left where in the situation on the left where in the situation on the left where you're using your phone and your phone you're using your phone and your phone you're using your phone and your phone is in the wrong spot facing the wrong is in the wrong spot facing the wrong is in the wrong spot facing the wrong way. Right here you can see this guy way. Right here you can see this guy way. Right here you can see this guy looks like he's facing a wall according looks like he's facing a wall according looks like he's facing a wall according to his phone. Um, Geonet it to his phone. Um, Geonet it to his phone. Um, Geonet it fundamentally is a new is it uses a fundamentally is a new is it uses a fundamentally is a new is it uses a technology called RTK or real-time technology called RTK or real-time technology called RTK or real-time kinematics where you can localize your kinematics where you can localize your kinematics where you can localize your location down to about 2 centimeters for location down to about 2 centimeters for location down to about 2 centimeters for context. GPS roughly the the precision context. GPS roughly the the precision context. GPS roughly the the precision is about 2 m. So you're getting about is about 2 m. So you're getting about is about 2 m. So you're getting about 100x accuracy for very precise 100x accuracy for very precise 100x accuracy for very precise geoloccation. Uh, as you can imagine any geoloccation. Uh, as you can imagine any geoloccation. Uh, as you can imagine any form of kind of robotics can make use of form of kind of robotics can make use of form of kind of robotics can make use of RTK drones being the very obvious RTK drones being the very obvious RTK drones being the very obvious example. I'll touch on a few more just example. I'll touch on a few more just example. I'll touch on a few more just in a couple minutes here. in a couple minutes here. in a couple minutes here. Um, today Geonet is the world's largest Um, today Geonet is the world's largest Um, today Geonet is the world's largest RTK network in the world and it's also RTK network in the world and it's also RTK network in the world and it's also the fastest growing. Um, the three the fastest growing. Um, the three the fastest growing. Um, the three companies you see on the left here, companies you see on the left here, companies you see on the left here, Trimble, Hexagon, and Topcon, have all Trimble, Hexagon, and Topcon, have all Trimble, Hexagon, and Topcon, have all been building RTK networks in some form been building RTK networks in some form been building RTK networks in some form or fashion for call it 20 to 30 years. or fashion for call it 20 to 30 years. or fashion for call it 20 to 30 years. Um, all of them combined have roughly Um, all of them combined have roughly Um, all of them combined have roughly 12,000 base stations deployed around the 12,000 base stations deployed around the 12,000 base stations deployed around the world. GeoNet was founded in 2021. Uh, world. GeoNet was founded in 2021. Uh, world. GeoNet was founded in 2021. Uh, began building out the network in 2022. began building out the network in 2022. began building out the network in 2022. Uh, and today they are roughly twice the Uh, and today they are roughly twice the Uh, and today they are roughly twice the size of the next three guys combined. Uh size of the next three guys combined. Uh size of the next three guys combined. Uh today's geoet is live in 150 countries today's geoet is live in 150 countries today's geoet is live in 150 countries around the world, more than 11,000 around the world, more than 11,000 around the world, more than 11,000 cities and covers roughly 80% of the cities and covers roughly 80% of the cities and covers roughly 80% of the global population excluding some global population excluding some global population excluding some sanctioned countries. Um so this thing sanctioned countries. Um so this thing sanctioned countries. Um so this thing is really growing quickly. Uh you might is really growing quickly. Uh you might is really growing quickly. Uh you might say, how did these guys build this say, how did these guys build this say, how did these guys build this network so fast? Uh and the key is network so fast? Uh and the key is network so fast? Uh and the key is really this decentralized crypto model. really this decentralized crypto model. really this decentralized crypto model. Um so here we're looking at literally a Um so here we're looking at literally a Um so here we're looking at literally a photo of a geoet base station on the photo of a geoet base station on the photo of a geoet base station on the roof of someone's house. The the global roof of someone's house. The the global roof of someone's house. The the global geoet network, those 22,000 nodes are geoet network, those 22,000 nodes are geoet network, those 22,000 nodes are not being built and deployed by some one not being built and deployed by some one not being built and deployed by some one that looks like AT&T or Verizon. Those that looks like AT&T or Verizon. Those that looks like AT&T or Verizon. Those base stations are being deployed by any base stations are being deployed by any base stations are being deployed by any random guy or hobbyist or professional random guy or hobbyist or professional random guy or hobbyist or professional or small business owner who wants to or small business owner who wants to or small business owner who wants to make some extra money. You can go on the make some extra money. You can go on the make some extra money. You can go on the Geonodes website today. You can buy one Geonodes website today. You can buy one Geonodes website today. You can buy one of these base stations. They're a few of these base stations. They're a few of these base stations. They're a few hundred bucks. You put it on your roof hundred bucks. You put it on your roof hundred bucks. You put it on your roof of your house or your small business. It of your house or your small business. It of your house or your small business. It broadcasts radio waves. You make money. broadcasts radio waves. You make money. broadcasts radio waves. You make money. Uh you actually get paid in geode Uh you actually get paid in geode Uh you actually get paid in geode tokens, which is the really cool part tokens, which is the really cool part tokens, which is the really cool part about this incentive system to bootstrap about this incentive system to bootstrap about this incentive system to bootstrap this thing to get it off the ground. So this thing to get it off the ground. So this thing to get it off the ground. So the Geonet network started about 4 years the Geonet network started about 4 years the Geonet network started about 4 years ago doing this. Today it's now the ago doing this. Today it's now the ago doing this. Today it's now the largest fastest growing in the world by largest fastest growing in the world by largest fastest growing in the world by a pretty wide margin. If you want a a pretty wide margin. If you want a a pretty wide margin. If you want a sense of scale, uh here we're looking at sense of scale, uh here we're looking at sense of scale, uh here we're looking at their coverage in United States. their coverage in United States. their coverage in United States. Obviously, every single major metro is Obviously, every single major metro is Obviously, every single major metro is covered, but even if you look at most of covered, but even if you look at most of covered, but even if you look at most of the rural parts of the country, you're the rural parts of the country, you're the rural parts of the country, you're covering actually the vast majority of covering actually the vast majority of covering actually the vast majority of even the rural areas. Um let's talk even the rural areas. Um let's talk even the rural areas. Um let's talk about some of the customers and use about some of the customers and use about some of the customers and use cases for this. We'll start with cases for this. We'll start with cases for this. We'll start with agriculture first. Um the USDA actually agriculture first. Um the USDA actually agriculture first. Um the USDA actually launched a couple years ago a program to launched a couple years ago a program to launched a couple years ago a program to encourage farmers and ranchers to use uh encourage farmers and ranchers to use uh encourage farmers and ranchers to use uh precise a technologies including RTK precise a technologies including RTK precise a technologies including RTK networks. Um today actually geo the USDA networks. Um today actually geo the USDA networks. Um today actually geo the USDA is now actually subsidizing uh many is now actually subsidizing uh many is now actually subsidizing uh many farmers and ranchers all over the farmers and ranchers all over the farmers and ranchers all over the country uh to adopt high precision a country uh to adopt high precision a country uh to adopt high precision a most of which is powered by geodet. most of which is powered by geodet. most of which is powered by geodet. Um getting into some specific examples Um getting into some specific examples Um getting into some specific examples of that here we're looking at what's of that here we're looking at what's of that here we're looking at what's called a robotic mule. Um this is made called a robotic mule. Um this is made called a robotic mule. Um this is made by a company called Burrow. Uh obviously by a company called Burrow. Uh obviously by a company called Burrow. Uh obviously this is transporting some grapes. You this is transporting some grapes. You this is transporting some grapes. You could put anything on this. Has pretty could put anything on this. Has pretty could put anything on this. Has pretty obvious application for bas almost any obvious application for bas almost any obvious application for bas almost any farm or ranch you can imagine. With the farm or ranch you can imagine. With the farm or ranch you can imagine. With the advent in computer vision, CPUs, advent in computer vision, CPUs, advent in computer vision, CPUs, batteries, all the other AI stuff, these batteries, all the other AI stuff, these batteries, all the other AI stuff, these things are growing like hotcakes, all of things are growing like hotcakes, all of things are growing like hotcakes, all of them are going to be powered by Geonet them are going to be powered by Geonet them are going to be powered by Geonet or something like it. Um, here we're or something like it. Um, here we're or something like it. Um, here we're looking at John Deere. They have a new looking at John Deere. They have a new looking at John Deere. They have a new service uh that they rolled out recently service uh that they rolled out recently service uh that they rolled out recently called Global Unmanned Spraying Systems called Global Unmanned Spraying Systems called Global Unmanned Spraying Systems or Gus. Um, these things drive around. or Gus. Um, these things drive around. or Gus. Um, these things drive around. They literally spray plants with They literally spray plants with They literally spray plants with pesticides and other things of that like pesticides and other things of that like pesticides and other things of that like that. I did actually confirm this that. I did actually confirm this that. I did actually confirm this morning there are wineries here in Napa morning there are wineries here in Napa morning there are wineries here in Napa that are actually using John Deere Gus that are actually using John Deere Gus that are actually using John Deere Gus uh uh vehicles. That was pretty cool. So uh uh vehicles. That was pretty cool. So uh uh vehicles. That was pretty cool. So if you have some wine tonight, maybe it if you have some wine tonight, maybe it if you have some wine tonight, maybe it was powered by by Gus, which powered by was powered by by Gus, which powered by was powered by by Gus, which powered by Geonet. Um, obviously autonomous Geonet. Um, obviously autonomous Geonet. Um, obviously autonomous vehicles has a pretty obvious vehicles has a pretty obvious vehicles has a pretty obvious application for this. Um, TomTom is one application for this. Um, TomTom is one application for this. Um, TomTom is one of Geonet's customers. TomTom is a of Geonet's customers. TomTom is a of Geonet's customers. TomTom is a supplier to basically every every AV supplier to basically every every AV supplier to basically every every AV program in the world, uh, excluding program in the world, uh, excluding program in the world, uh, excluding maybe a couple. And today, TomTom is maybe a couple. And today, TomTom is maybe a couple. And today, TomTom is using Geonet's data to update their maps using Geonet's data to update their maps using Geonet's data to update their maps to get them more accurate and precise as to get them more accurate and precise as to get them more accurate and precise as they need to cover every square inch they need to cover every square inch they need to cover every square inch basically around the planet. basically around the planet. basically around the planet. Um, one of my favorite use cases are Um, one of my favorite use cases are Um, one of my favorite use cases are kind of the next wave of consumer kind of the next wave of consumer kind of the next wave of consumer robotics, which are getting a lot of robotics, which are getting a lot of robotics, which are getting a lot of hype these days. I think the most hype these days. I think the most hype these days. I think the most obvious one are robotic lawnmowers. I obvious one are robotic lawnmowers. I obvious one are robotic lawnmowers. I don't think anyone loves to mow their don't think anyone loves to mow their don't think anyone loves to mow their lawn. Um, robotic lawnmowers are now lawn. Um, robotic lawnmowers are now lawn. Um, robotic lawnmowers are now actually rolling out at pretty good actually rolling out at pretty good actually rolling out at pretty good scale. They're estimated they're going scale. They're estimated they're going scale. They're estimated they're going to sell 1 million robotic lawnmowers to sell 1 million robotic lawnmowers to sell 1 million robotic lawnmowers this year, made by companies like Yarbo, this year, made by companies like Yarbo, this year, made by companies like Yarbo, Sunseeker, and others. Um, all of those Sunseeker, and others. Um, all of those Sunseeker, and others. Um, all of those these guys are all powered by Geonet. these guys are all powered by Geonet. these guys are all powered by Geonet. Um, Um, Um, next up, let's get to drones. Um the next up, let's get to drones. Um the next up, let's get to drones. Um the world's largest drone manufacturer DJI world's largest drone manufacturer DJI world's largest drone manufacturer DJI is a Geonet customer. Uh it's not in all is a Geonet customer. Uh it's not in all is a Geonet customer. Uh it's not in all of their models, but it is in a lot of of their models, but it is in a lot of of their models, but it is in a lot of their models. Uh and so obviously DJI is their models. Uh and so obviously DJI is their models. Uh and so obviously DJI is sending a ton of traffic now over sending a ton of traffic now over sending a ton of traffic now over Geonet. Uh in the coming uh you know Geonet. Uh in the coming uh you know Geonet. Uh in the coming uh you know months and years as DJI wounds down in months and years as DJI wounds down in months and years as DJI wounds down in the US and you have new a wave of the US and you have new a wave of the US and you have new a wave of American drone manufacturers pop up. I'm American drone manufacturers pop up. I'm American drone manufacturers pop up. I'm going to venture to guess that most if going to venture to guess that most if going to venture to guess that most if not all of them are going to end up on not all of them are going to end up on not all of them are going to end up on the GeoNet network as well. Uh the the GeoNet network as well. Uh the the GeoNet network as well. Uh the Geonet team is based in the US has deep Geonet team is based in the US has deep Geonet team is based in the US has deep roots here. What I love about Geonet is roots here. What I love about Geonet is roots here. What I love about Geonet is it's a very obvious network effect it's a very obvious network effect it's a very obvious network effect networks effect network effects networks effect network effects networks effect network effects business. Um this thing looks like a business. Um this thing looks like a business. Um this thing looks like a natural telecom, right? You have base natural telecom, right? You have base natural telecom, right? You have base stations kind of all over the world. You stations kind of all over the world. You stations kind of all over the world. You got to cover the whole planet. Um got to cover the whole planet. Um got to cover the whole planet. Um telecoms naturally form monopolies telecoms naturally form monopolies telecoms naturally form monopolies historically. I think the same is likely historically. I think the same is likely historically. I think the same is likely to be true here. Today, Geonet is the to be true here. Today, Geonet is the to be true here. Today, Geonet is the world's largest and fastest growing world's largest and fastest growing world's largest and fastest growing network with also the lowest cost network with also the lowest cost network with also the lowest cost structure by a very wide margin because structure by a very wide margin because structure by a very wide margin because of this decentralized nature where of this decentralized nature where of this decentralized nature where people just put these things on top of people just put these things on top of people just put these things on top of their house. their house. their house. In terms of where the business at, the In terms of where the business at, the In terms of where the business at, the business just crossed about $1 million business just crossed about $1 million business just crossed about $1 million in annualized run rate a few days ago. in annualized run rate a few days ago. in annualized run rate a few days ago. Uh, and it's growing more than 3x Uh, and it's growing more than 3x Uh, and it's growing more than 3x year-over-year. I think it's going to year-over-year. I think it's going to year-over-year. I think it's going to probably more than triple over the next probably more than triple over the next probably more than triple over the next 12 months. Um, what's really cool about 12 months. Um, what's really cool about 12 months. Um, what's really cool about GeoNet is how capital efficient it is GeoNet is how capital efficient it is GeoNet is how capital efficient it is and how they're actually returning and how they're actually returning and how they're actually returning capital to token holders. So today, uh, capital to token holders. So today, uh, capital to token holders. So today, uh, the Geonet network is taking of that 11 the Geonet network is taking of that 11 the Geonet network is taking of that 11 million in revenue roughly, uh, excuse million in revenue roughly, uh, excuse million in revenue roughly, uh, excuse me, 80% of it is being used to make open me, 80% of it is being used to make open me, 80% of it is being used to make open market purchases of Geo tokens. Uh, and market purchases of Geo tokens. Uh, and market purchases of Geo tokens. Uh, and this is all visible on the Salana this is all visible on the Salana this is all visible on the Salana blockchain. they have all the addresses blockchain. they have all the addresses blockchain. they have all the addresses are published and stuff. So, it's all are published and stuff. So, it's all are published and stuff. So, it's all verifiable in real time. Uh that means verifiable in real time. Uh that means verifiable in real time. Uh that means $8.8 million right now per year is going $8.8 million right now per year is going $8.8 million right now per year is going into buying, you know, Geonet tokens on into buying, you know, Geonet tokens on into buying, you know, Geonet tokens on the open market. Uh what's amazing is the open market. Uh what's amazing is the open market. Uh what's amazing is that last 20% is they're they're that last 20% is they're they're that last 20% is they're they're covering all their R&D costs and scaling covering all their R&D costs and scaling covering all their R&D costs and scaling out now their business development team. out now their business development team. out now their business development team. With a business like this, of course, With a business like this, of course, With a business like this, of course, like it's a pretty small network of like it's a pretty small network of like it's a pretty small network of customers. The guys who work at John customers. The guys who work at John customers. The guys who work at John Deere know the guys who work at DJI, who Deere know the guys who work at DJI, who Deere know the guys who work at DJI, who know the guys who work at TomTom. And know the guys who work at TomTom. And know the guys who work at TomTom. And so, this thing is now growing virally so, this thing is now growing virally so, this thing is now growing virally amongst this kind of core community of amongst this kind of core community of amongst this kind of core community of of customers. Um, and as you can imagine of customers. Um, and as you can imagine of customers. Um, and as you can imagine with customers who sign up for a service with customers who sign up for a service with customers who sign up for a service like this, they tend to ramp up their like this, they tend to ramp up their like this, they tend to ramp up their usage of that service over time. So once usage of that service over time. So once usage of that service over time. So once someone starts rolling out GeoNet in the someone starts rolling out GeoNet in the someone starts rolling out GeoNet in the first year, they're usually spending first year, they're usually spending first year, they're usually spending about $60,000 per year. After two years about $60,000 per year. After two years about $60,000 per year. After two years though, they're usually spending about though, they're usually spending about though, they're usually spending about $170,000 per year. So the average Geonet $170,000 per year. So the average Geonet $170,000 per year. So the average Geonet customer is growing their their revenue customer is growing their their revenue customer is growing their their revenue with GeoNet about 3x in that second with GeoNet about 3x in that second with GeoNet about 3x in that second year. Um, obviously then we look at year. Um, obviously then we look at year. Um, obviously then we look at their just their customers. They've their just their customers. They've their just their customers. They've signed up in the last two years. You can signed up in the last two years. You can signed up in the last two years. You can see they 5x their customer base last see they 5x their customer base last see they 5x their customer base last year. Those are that net new customers. year. Those are that net new customers. year. Those are that net new customers. So applying some pretty simple math So applying some pretty simple math So applying some pretty simple math here, you can see they have a very clear here, you can see they have a very clear here, you can see they have a very clear path to more than 3x this year as this path to more than 3x this year as this path to more than 3x this year as this thing ramps up. Just to wrap things up thing ramps up. Just to wrap things up thing ramps up. Just to wrap things up summary, um Jonet is the world's largest summary, um Jonet is the world's largest summary, um Jonet is the world's largest RTK network, growing the fastest. It has RTK network, growing the fastest. It has RTK network, growing the fastest. It has really obvious network effects and is is really obvious network effects and is is really obvious network effects and is is likely to be a very natural monopoly likely to be a very natural monopoly likely to be a very natural monopoly growing 3x year over year with a bunch growing 3x year over year with a bunch growing 3x year over year with a bunch of flagship customers and brands that of flagship customers and brands that of flagship customers and brands that you all know. Obviously, we have this you all know. Obviously, we have this you all know. Obviously, we have this huge physical AI tailwind behind us now, huge physical AI tailwind behind us now, huge physical AI tailwind behind us now, robotics and all the other amazing stuff robotics and all the other amazing stuff robotics and all the other amazing stuff happening. Uh and they're returning happening. Uh and they're returning happening. Uh and they're returning capital to shareholders. Uh the token capital to shareholders. Uh the token capital to shareholders. Uh the token does trade on the Salana blockchain. Uh does trade on the Salana blockchain. Uh does trade on the Salana blockchain. Uh if you want to buy, it trades 247. The if you want to buy, it trades 247. The if you want to buy, it trades 247. The ticker is geode geo d. Um so if you want ticker is geode geo d. Um so if you want ticker is geode geo d. Um so if you want to actually get some geo tokens, I to actually get some geo tokens, I to actually get some geo tokens, I encourage you to sign up for a crypto encourage you to sign up for a crypto encourage you to sign up for a crypto wallet, a salon wallet, and you can go wallet, a salon wallet, and you can go wallet, a salon wallet, and you can go ahead and buy geode tokens from there. ahead and buy geode tokens from there. ahead and buy geode tokens from there. And with that, I think we are ready for And with that, I think we are ready for And with that, I think we are ready for some Q&A. some Q&A. some Q&A. >> Awesome. Um what's the market cap? >> Awesome. Um what's the market cap? >> Awesome. Um what's the market cap? >> Oh, sorry. It's trading about 150 >> Oh, sorry. It's trading about 150 >> Oh, sorry. It's trading about 150 million on a fully diluted basis. If you million on a fully diluted basis. If you million on a fully diluted basis. If you were to go look at any of the crypto were to go look at any of the crypto were to go look at any of the crypto price websites like coin.go require price websites like coin.go require price websites like coin.go require market cap. They're going to show you market cap. They're going to show you market cap. They're going to show you something like 60 or 70 million. That's something like 60 or 70 million. That's something like 60 or 70 million. That's because not all of the tokens are because not all of the tokens are because not all of the tokens are floating yet, but the fully diluted floating yet, but the fully diluted floating yet, but the fully diluted number is about 1 million. number is about 1 million. number is about 1 million. >> Is there a corporation behind it or is >> Is there a corporation behind it or is >> Is there a corporation behind it or is this just like a project in the Cayman this just like a project in the Cayman this just like a project in the Cayman Islands in Panama with a board that Islands in Panama with a board that Islands in Panama with a board that nobody knows who's on it? Tell us about nobody knows who's on it? Tell us about nobody knows who's on it? Tell us about governance. governance. governance. >> Uh so the Geonet team is uh US-based >> Uh so the Geonet team is uh US-based >> Uh so the Geonet team is uh US-based corporation. There four teams in San corporation. There four teams in San corporation. There four teams in San Francisco. The CEO's name is Mike Francisco. The CEO's name is Mike Francisco. The CEO's name is Mike Horton. Uh really, really good guy. He's Horton. Uh really, really good guy. He's Horton. Uh really, really good guy. He's been building in this kind of IoT smart, been building in this kind of IoT smart, been building in this kind of IoT smart, you know, device space for a while. the you know, device space for a while. the you know, device space for a while. the relationship between the corporate relationship between the corporate relationship between the corporate entity and the token and which one entity and the token and which one entity and the token and which one should we own? should we own? should we own? >> Uh you should own the token because I >> Uh you should own the token because I >> Uh you should own the token because I own a lot of the token uh as as you own a lot of the token uh as as you own a lot of the token uh as as you might imagine. I don't own any of the might imagine. I don't own any of the might imagine. I don't own any of the equity. Um the relationship is geoet the equity. Um the relationship is geoet the equity. Um the relationship is geoet the c you know the company is facing John c you know the company is facing John c you know the company is facing John Deere DJI all these companies and they Deere DJI all these companies and they Deere DJI all these companies and they have a contractual relationship with the have a contractual relationship with the have a contractual relationship with the Geonet Foundation to use 80% of their Geonet Foundation to use 80% of their Geonet Foundation to use 80% of their revenues to buy tokens off the open revenues to buy tokens off the open revenues to buy tokens off the open market. And that's market. And that's market. And that's >> that corporation raised venture capital >> that corporation raised venture capital >> that corporation raised venture capital or anything? Uh yes uh my prior company or anything? Uh yes uh my prior company or anything? Uh yes uh my prior company Multicoin actually led around in Geonet Multicoin actually led around in Geonet Multicoin actually led around in Geonet previously. previously. previously. >> Okay Kyle I have I have many questions >> Okay Kyle I have I have many questions >> Okay Kyle I have I have many questions from the audience so bear with me. from the audience so bear with me. from the audience so bear with me. Question one do you like Helium as much Question one do you like Helium as much Question one do you like Helium as much which is Geonet for 5G signal. which is Geonet for 5G signal. which is Geonet for 5G signal. >> Uh yes I actually led multicoins >> Uh yes I actually led multicoins >> Uh yes I actually led multicoins investment in Helium six or seven years investment in Helium six or seven years investment in Helium six or seven years ago uh and continue to be a very big ago uh and continue to be a very big ago uh and continue to be a very big long-term believer. They actually had long-term believer. They actually had long-term believer. They actually had big news go out this morning. Uh but big news go out this morning. Uh but big news go out this morning. Uh but yeah I'm a big Helium fan. yeah I'm a big Helium fan. yeah I'm a big Helium fan. >> Question two. There's a long list of >> Question two. There's a long list of >> Question two. There's a long list of deepin projects that have failed because deepin projects that have failed because deepin projects that have failed because people just don't value the token people just don't value the token people just don't value the token rewards. Why is this any different? rewards. Why is this any different? rewards. Why is this any different? >> I mean, they're returning capital to >> I mean, they're returning capital to >> I mean, they're returning capital to shareholders. This thing is, you know, shareholders. This thing is, you know, shareholders. This thing is, you know, returning $8.8 million to shareholders. returning $8.8 million to shareholders. returning $8.8 million to shareholders. It's trading at $150 million valuation It's trading at $150 million valuation It's trading at $150 million valuation and it's going to grow 3x this year. and it's going to grow 3x this year. and it's going to grow 3x this year. It's an unbelievably cheap asset. It's It's an unbelievably cheap asset. It's It's an unbelievably cheap asset. It's just people aren't paying attention just people aren't paying attention just people aren't paying attention because it's crypto bare market right because it's crypto bare market right because it's crypto bare market right now. now. now. >> Okay. Uh from Sam, >> Okay. Uh from Sam, >> Okay. Uh from Sam, >> sorry, let it's a securitized interest >> sorry, let it's a securitized interest >> sorry, let it's a securitized interest in the cash flows from the customers in the cash flows from the customers in the cash flows from the customers >> effectively. Yes. It is a revenue. It is >> effectively. Yes. It is a revenue. It is >> effectively. Yes. It is a revenue. It is a a a >> It's a revenue share token. >> It's a revenue share token. >> It's a revenue share token. >> Correct. 80%. >> Correct. 80%. >> Correct. 80%. >> Okay. So, the more John Deere pays >> Okay. So, the more John Deere pays >> Okay. So, the more John Deere pays Geodet the company, the more you Geodet the company, the more you Geodet the company, the more you basically deprecate the tokens, which basically deprecate the tokens, which basically deprecate the tokens, which should cause the token, should cause the token, should cause the token, >> they're buying tokens to open the >> they're buying tokens to open the >> they're buying tokens to open the market. Correct. market. Correct. market. Correct. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. From Sam, what acres value the >> Okay. From Sam, what acres value the >> Okay. From Sam, what acres value the equity or the token? Similar to equity or the token? Similar to equity or the token? Similar to question, how does the value acrruel question, how does the value acrruel question, how does the value acrruel mechanisms square or not with current mechanisms square or not with current mechanisms square or not with current securities laws or what's contemplated securities laws or what's contemplated securities laws or what's contemplated in the Clarity Act? in the Clarity Act? in the Clarity Act? >> Uh, yeah. Um, so the one answer to your >> Uh, yeah. Um, so the one answer to your >> Uh, yeah. Um, so the one answer to your question is the the tokens are the ones question is the the tokens are the ones question is the the tokens are the ones acrewing value because they're taking acrewing value because they're taking acrewing value because they're taking 80% and buying. The other 20% is 80% and buying. The other 20% is 80% and buying. The other 20% is obviously funding operations. They have obviously funding operations. They have obviously funding operations. They have engineers, salespeople, all that stuff. engineers, salespeople, all that stuff. engineers, salespeople, all that stuff. Um, so that's all there and being Um, so that's all there and being Um, so that's all there and being funded. In terms of securities laws, uh, funded. In terms of securities laws, uh, funded. In terms of securities laws, uh, the Clarity Act, uh, passing is the Clarity Act, uh, passing is the Clarity Act, uh, passing is certainly very good for Geonet. Uh, I'm certainly very good for Geonet. Uh, I'm certainly very good for Geonet. Uh, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to tell not a lawyer, so I'm not going to tell not a lawyer, so I'm not going to tell you that, you know, it it passes the you that, you know, it it passes the you that, you know, it it passes the bars set in the Clarity Act, but I can bars set in the Clarity Act, but I can bars set in the Clarity Act, but I can tell you I'm an optimist and I've been tell you I'm an optimist and I've been tell you I'm an optimist and I've been very involved in the Clarity Act, uh, very involved in the Clarity Act, uh, very involved in the Clarity Act, uh, and I'm not too worried about it. and I'm not too worried about it. and I'm not too worried about it. >> Okay. Can I can I ask about the business >> Okay. Can I can I ask about the business >> Okay. Can I can I ask about the business just real quick? So John Deere, I know just real quick? So John Deere, I know just real quick? So John Deere, I know this space somewhat well. I used to this space somewhat well. I used to this space somewhat well. I used to manage a company called Precision manage a company called Precision manage a company called Precision Planting in Agriculture and um there was Planting in Agriculture and um there was Planting in Agriculture and um there was John Deere makes their own RTK systems. John Deere makes their own RTK systems. John Deere makes their own RTK systems. So when you like run a a piece of So when you like run a a piece of So when you like run a a piece of equipment that relies on RTK, you're equipment that relies on RTK, you're equipment that relies on RTK, you're buying in the construction industry, buying in the construction industry, buying in the construction industry, Topcon or Leica or Trimble or John Deere Topcon or Leica or Trimble or John Deere Topcon or Leica or Trimble or John Deere and you install the RTK base stations and you install the RTK base stations and you install the RTK base stations and you run your equipment. Why would and you run your equipment. Why would and you run your equipment. Why would John Deere and others want to rely on John Deere and others want to rely on John Deere and others want to rely on this system as a different like why is this system as a different like why is this system as a different like why is it better than like the systems that it better than like the systems that it better than like the systems that they're already using? It wasn't quite they're already using? It wasn't quite they're already using? It wasn't quite clear to me. clear to me. clear to me. >> I mean capex versus opex, right? Like >> I mean capex versus opex, right? Like >> I mean capex versus opex, right? Like right these networks are all over the right these networks are all over the right these networks are all over the world now. They're running at very low world now. They're running at very low world now. They're running at very low cost. GeoNet is is probably a third to cost. GeoNet is is probably a third to cost. GeoNet is is probably a third to half sorry a third to a quarter the half sorry a third to a quarter the half sorry a third to a quarter the price um than buying up your own capex price um than buying up your own capex price um than buying up your own capex and doing it. And it's just available and doing it. And it's just available and doing it. And it's just available everywhere. So now it just reduces the everywhere. So now it just reduces the everywhere. So now it just reduces the sales cycle time for John Deere when sales cycle time for John Deere when sales cycle time for John Deere when they just say buy the tractor. It's they just say buy the tractor. It's they just say buy the tractor. It's good. good. good. >> There's another big push right now for >> There's another big push right now for >> There's another big push right now for microats to be an alternative to GPS in microats to be an alternative to GPS in microats to be an alternative to GPS in a way that they can actually provide a way that they can actually provide a way that they can actually provide subcm resolution effectively replacing subcm resolution effectively replacing subcm resolution effectively replacing both GPS and RTK using a a mesh network both GPS and RTK using a a mesh network both GPS and RTK using a a mesh network from SpaceX launched or actually SpaceX. from SpaceX launched or actually SpaceX. from SpaceX launched or actually SpaceX. I don't know if SpaceX has looked at I don't know if SpaceX has looked at I don't know if SpaceX has looked at doing this, but um I know that there is doing this, but um I know that there is doing this, but um I know that there is a very wellunded company that is trying a very wellunded company that is trying a very wellunded company that is trying to put up microats to basically replace to put up microats to basically replace to put up microats to basically replace GPS and RTK. Doesn't that ultimately GPS and RTK. Doesn't that ultimately GPS and RTK. Doesn't that ultimately kind of wash out the need to have all kind of wash out the need to have all kind of wash out the need to have all these earth-based base stations? these earth-based base stations? these earth-based base stations? >> I there's no chance they can compete on >> I there's no chance they can compete on >> I there's no chance they can compete on cost because just sending things to cost because just sending things to cost because just sending things to space with satellites that's so I mean space with satellites that's so I mean space with satellites that's so I mean these geoet uh base stations are a few these geoet uh base stations are a few these geoet uh base stations are a few hundred bucks. Like you're just not hundred bucks. Like you're just not hundred bucks. Like you're just not going to compete on cost with with going to compete on cost with with going to compete on cost with with geoet. geoet. geoet. >> Do you think that this is a viable >> Do you think that this is a viable >> Do you think that this is a viable replacement at scale and saturation for replacement at scale and saturation for replacement at scale and saturation for GPS itself? GPS itself? GPS itself? >> No. GPS is definitely very different. Uh >> No. GPS is definitely very different. Uh >> No. GPS is definitely very different. Uh and the SLA is different. and the SLA is different. and the SLA is different. >> You've got to you've got to have >> You've got to you've got to have >> You've got to you've got to have ubiquity for ubiquity for ubiquity for >> Yeah. for GPS um for GPS alternative >> Yeah. for GPS um for GPS alternative >> Yeah. for GPS um for GPS alternative which is why you have to have the which is why you have to have the which is why you have to have the satellites everywhere. You got to have satellites everywhere. You got to have satellites everywhere. You got to have enough but if you get enough satellites enough but if you get enough satellites enough but if you get enough satellites you can actually get to RTK precision you can actually get to RTK precision you can actually get to RTK precision and you don't need to have the big and you don't need to have the big and you don't need to have the big expensive GPS. expensive GPS. expensive GPS. >> You'd have a hybrid situation where you >> You'd have a hybrid situation where you >> You'd have a hybrid situation where you have a bunch of GEO and LEO plus a bunch have a bunch of GEO and LEO plus a bunch have a bunch of GEO and LEO plus a bunch of base stations all over the place. of base stations all over the place. of base stations all over the place. That hybrid situation probably That hybrid situation probably That hybrid situation probably >> you could actually the Leo the LEO alone >> you could actually the Leo the LEO alone >> you could actually the Leo the LEO alone can replace all of the the geo stuff. can replace all of the the geo stuff. can replace all of the the geo stuff. That's the goal. And then um if you get That's the goal. And then um if you get That's the goal. And then um if you get enough of them which SpaceX unlocks. enough of them which SpaceX unlocks. enough of them which SpaceX unlocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And um Kyle, what what about like other >> And um Kyle, what what about like other >> And um Kyle, what what about like other tokens when you think about other tokens when you think about other tokens when you think about other compute tasks like work to be done for compute tasks like work to be done for compute tasks like work to be done for example? There's a bunch of tokens that example? There's a bunch of tokens that example? There's a bunch of tokens that have emerged in distributed training. have emerged in distributed training. have emerged in distributed training. How did you hone in on this and exclude How did you hone in on this and exclude How did you hone in on this and exclude the others? the others? the others? >> I mean, not meaning prefer this over >> I mean, not meaning prefer this over >> I mean, not meaning prefer this over that. that. that. >> I mean, I met the GeoNet founder years >> I mean, I met the GeoNet founder years >> I mean, I met the GeoNet founder years ago. He pitched us and I've gotten to ago. He pitched us and I've gotten to ago. He pitched us and I've gotten to know him and followed it. The know him and followed it. The know him and followed it. The distributed training stuff, there's a distributed training stuff, there's a distributed training stuff, there's a whole bunch of people trying it. I I'm whole bunch of people trying it. I I'm whole bunch of people trying it. I I'm pretty skeptical. I don't think any of pretty skeptical. I don't think any of pretty skeptical. I don't think any of it's going to work. Um the distributed it's going to work. Um the distributed it's going to work. Um the distributed inference stuff is is possible although inference stuff is is possible although inference stuff is is possible although it has not worked as well as we would it has not worked as well as we would it has not worked as well as we would have hoped. I did put some money behind have hoped. I did put some money behind have hoped. I did put some money behind that a few years ago. It's it's working that a few years ago. It's it's working that a few years ago. It's it's working but not not A+. Um one last thing but not not A+. Um one last thing but not not A+. Um one last thing actually David on on your prior question actually David on on your prior question actually David on on your prior question I want to highlight is also energy use. I want to highlight is also energy use. I want to highlight is also energy use. Going to space just consumes way more Going to space just consumes way more Going to space just consumes way more energy than going to a base station energy than going to a base station energy than going to a base station that's you know on the ground. Um and so that's you know on the ground. Um and so that's you know on the ground. Um and so yeah for a tractor maybe that doesn't yeah for a tractor maybe that doesn't yeah for a tractor maybe that doesn't matter but for a drone or for any other matter but for a drone or for any other matter but for a drone or for any other battery sensitive application ground is battery sensitive application ground is battery sensitive application ground is always going to be uh the preferred always going to be uh the preferred always going to be uh the preferred solution. solution. solution. >> Super interesting. Well done. Thank you. >> Super interesting. Well done. Thank you. >> Super interesting. Well done. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. >> All right, guys. >> All right, guys. >> All right, guys. >> Before we vote, Timoth, give your >> Before we vote, Timoth, give your >> Before we vote, Timoth, give your feedback. feedback. feedback. >> Here's what I like. I I I apply the Stan >> Here's what I like. I I I apply the Stan >> Here's what I like. I I I apply the Stan Ducken Miller school of invest Ducken Miller school of invest Ducken Miller school of invest investigate. I really believe in it. investigate. I really believe in it. investigate. I really believe in it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um if you don't have any skin in the >> Um if you don't have any skin in the >> Um if you don't have any skin in the game, you don't care. And this is the game, you don't care. And this is the game, you don't care. And this is the kind of stuff that I love. I love kind of stuff that I love. I love kind of stuff that I love. I love hearing ideas like this. hearing ideas like this. hearing ideas like this. >> I love all four. My my difference is in >> I love all four. My my difference is in >> I love all four. My my difference is in sizing. So, you know, there's there's sizing. So, you know, there's there's sizing. So, you know, there's there's certain asymmetric alpha that each one certain asymmetric alpha that each one certain asymmetric alpha that each one of these exhibits and then there's very of these exhibits and then there's very of these exhibits and then there's very different downside risk for each of different downside risk for each of different downside risk for each of them. them. them. >> Uh, and then there's also liquidity >> Uh, and then there's also liquidity >> Uh, and then there's also liquidity issues. So, for example, like I love issues. So, for example, like I love issues. So, for example, like I love Kyle's idea. The problem is I I could Kyle's idea. The problem is I I could Kyle's idea. The problem is I I could not get enough working for me where so not get enough working for me where so not get enough working for me where so you I don't even think I could get a you I don't even think I could get a you I don't even think I could get a million dollars in today. It would to million dollars in today. It would to million dollars in today. It would to scale in it would move the market. Um, scale in it would move the market. Um, scale in it would move the market. Um, so I would have to I'd have to probably so I would have to I'd have to probably so I would have to I'd have to probably I'd be like 10 20 30,000 and then maybe I'd be like 10 20 30,000 and then maybe I'd be like 10 20 30,000 and then maybe start to buy into it. talent. I think start to buy into it. talent. I think start to buy into it. talent. I think they could absorb tens of millions and they could absorb tens of millions and they could absorb tens of millions and people wouldn't bite an eyelash. Um people wouldn't bite an eyelash. Um people wouldn't bite an eyelash. Um the biotech company the issue there is the biotech company the issue there is the biotech company the issue there is that I think that there is as you said that I think that there is as you said that I think that there is as you said Freberg this discontinuous Freberg this discontinuous Freberg this discontinuous illi liquidity zero risk but then illi liquidity zero risk but then illi liquidity zero risk but then there's the 10x upside. So there's just there's the 10x upside. So there's just there's the 10x upside. So there's just like huge like huge like huge >> Lily will bid for it >> Lily will bid for it >> Lily will bid for it >> and then MGM I think is just so I think >> and then MGM I think is just so I think >> and then MGM I think is just so I think MGM and Talon are the ones you could MGM and Talon are the ones you could MGM and Talon are the ones you could have huge sizing in have huge sizing in have huge sizing in >> and then the other ones I think you have >> and then the other ones I think you have >> and then the other ones I think you have a piece because they're like lottery a piece because they're like lottery a piece because they're like lottery tickets. I think your point on MGM. tickets. I think your point on MGM. tickets. I think your point on MGM. >> Okay. Wait, hold on. Let me just review. >> Okay. Wait, hold on. Let me just review. >> Okay. Wait, hold on. Let me just review. So, company number one So, company number one So, company number one was MGM was MGM was MGM >> and that was >> and that was >> and that was >> Resorts. Okay. >> Resorts. Okay. >> Resorts. Okay. >> Company number two, >> Company number two, >> Company number two, >> Talon. >> Talon. >> Talon. >> Talon Energy. >> Talon Energy. >> Talon Energy. >> Company number three, >> Company number three, >> Company number three, >> Actis >> Actis >> Actis >> Therapeutics. Yeah. >> Therapeutics. Yeah. >> Therapeutics. Yeah. >> And then >> And then >> And then >> Geodet. >> Geodet. >> Geodet. >> Geodet. Not company, but I guess token. >> Geodet. Not company, but I guess token. >> Geodet. Not company, but I guess token. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Company number four, Geodet. >> Company number four, Geodet. >> Company number four, Geodet. >> And you're buying the token, not the >> And you're buying the token, not the >> And you're buying the token, not the company. Do you think the um maybe for company. Do you think the um maybe for company. Do you think the um maybe for you too, Gavin, like the you too, Gavin, like the you too, Gavin, like the >> Gavin, you rank them. >> Gavin, you rank them. >> Gavin, you rank them. >> Well, no, even before you rank, just >> Well, no, even before you rank, just >> Well, no, even before you rank, just tell us what you think of the format and tell us what you think of the format and tell us what you think of the format and then assess the companies. We'll do then assess the companies. We'll do then assess the companies. We'll do ranking at the end. We're going to do 4 ranking at the end. We're going to do 4 ranking at the end. We're going to do 4 32. We're going to do 4 3 2 1 on stage, 32. We're going to do 4 3 2 1 on stage, 32. We're going to do 4 3 2 1 on stage, but give me your general ideas about the but give me your general ideas about the but give me your general ideas about the pitches, what you liked, what you did. pitches, what you liked, what you did. pitches, what you liked, what you did. >> I thought the pitches were great. Um I >> I thought the pitches were great. Um I >> I thought the pitches were great. Um I thought the format was amazing. I would thought the format was amazing. I would thought the format was amazing. I would for sure expand it next year. There are for sure expand it next year. There are for sure expand it next year. There are platforms that you guys could have a all platforms that you guys could have a all platforms that you guys could have a all all-in basket or ETF that people could all-in basket or ETF that people could all-in basket or ETF that people could trade in. So like maybe that's trade in. So like maybe that's trade in. So like maybe that's something. something. something. >> Will you do it next year? >> Will you do it next year? >> Will you do it next year? >> Will I pitch next year? >> Will I pitch next year? >> Will I pitch next year? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Jake, I'll do anything. He's locked. >> Jake, I'll do anything. He's locked. >> Jake, I'll do anything. He's locked. He's locked. He's locked. He's locked. >> Actually, here's what I would ask Gavin >> Actually, here's what I would ask Gavin >> Actually, here's what I would ask Gavin to put you on the spot. Next year I to put you on the spot. Next year I to put you on the spot. Next year I would we I think we would all learn and would we I think we would all learn and would we I think we would all learn and benefit if you would do benefit if you would do benefit if you would do >> um silicon and memory super cycle. >> um silicon and memory super cycle. >> um silicon and memory super cycle. >> Sure. Would you be willing to do that >> Sure. Would you be willing to do that >> Sure. Would you be willing to do that for us? for us? for us? >> I'll do it. >> I'll do it. >> I'll do it. >> Sign me up. >> Sign me up. >> Sign me up. >> Perfect. Great. Sign me up. Oh, thank >> Perfect. Great. Sign me up. Oh, thank >> Perfect. Great. Sign me up. Oh, thank you. So, keep going. you. So, keep going. you. So, keep going. >> Well, no. As far as the pitches, I do >> Well, no. As far as the pitches, I do >> Well, no. As far as the pitches, I do think um I think it's important to think um I think it's important to think um I think it's important to disagregate like what was a really great disagregate like what was a really great disagregate like what was a really great entertaining pitch versus what I think entertaining pitch versus what I think entertaining pitch versus what I think is is a really good riskreward. Um I is is a really good riskreward. Um I is is a really good riskreward. Um I thought Oleg and Kyle did a great job thought Oleg and Kyle did a great job thought Oleg and Kyle did a great job with the pitches, but I'm I'm not a with the pitches, but I'm I'm not a with the pitches, but I'm I'm not a healthcare investor, nor am I a crypto healthcare investor, nor am I a crypto healthcare investor, nor am I a crypto investor. I thoroughly enjoyed the investor. I thoroughly enjoyed the investor. I thoroughly enjoyed the presentations. I actually thought GET presentations. I actually thought GET presentations. I actually thought GET was very interesting. Um I'm happy to was very interesting. Um I'm happy to was very interesting. Um I'm happy to learn from Oleg that I might lift well learn from Oleg that I might lift well learn from Oleg that I might lift well into my 100s. That was good news for me into my 100s. That was good news for me into my 100s. That was good news for me and everybody in the room. I enjoyed all and everybody in the room. I enjoyed all and everybody in the room. I enjoyed all the um the military um terminology and the um the military um terminology and the um the military um terminology and analogies. analogies. analogies. >> Yeah, that was really great. Huh. >> Yeah, that was really great. Huh. >> Yeah, that was really great. Huh. >> That was great. >> That was great. >> That was great. >> Really great. >> Really great. >> Really great. >> I do think um from a pure riskreward >> I do think um from a pure riskreward >> I do think um from a pure riskreward perspective, I thought MGM was the best. perspective, I thought MGM was the best. perspective, I thought MGM was the best. um your downside is really capped um your downside is really capped um your downside is really capped because of the Barry Diller bid and then because of the Barry Diller bid and then because of the Barry Diller bid and then you have uh Japan and Dubai as I think you have uh Japan and Dubai as I think you have uh Japan and Dubai as I think very valuable future sources of value. very valuable future sources of value. very valuable future sources of value. Uh and and I do think talent is also a Uh and and I do think talent is also a Uh and and I do think talent is also a very compelling risk. I just think very compelling risk. I just think very compelling risk. I just think everything in AI is going to need to everything in AI is going to need to everything in AI is going to need to grapple with increasing regulatory risk grapple with increasing regulatory risk grapple with increasing regulatory risk which we talked about last time um that which we talked about last time um that which we talked about last time um that that I was on the pod with you guys and that I was on the pod with you guys and that I was on the pod with you guys and I don't know how to dimensionalize that I don't know how to dimensionalize that I don't know how to dimensionalize that and um you know I've been and um you know I've been and um you know I've been >> like the big negative externality for >> like the big negative externality for >> like the big negative externality for talent is nothing to do with talent. talent is nothing to do with talent. talent is nothing to do with talent. >> Nothing to do with talent. >> Nothing to do with talent. >> Nothing to do with talent. >> It's like something over the top from >> It's like something over the top from >> It's like something over the top from the US government caps prices something the US government caps prices something the US government caps prices something something. something. something. >> Yeah. You have nationalizes the lab. >> Yeah. You have nationalizes the lab. >> Yeah. You have nationalizes the lab. >> You have a change in administration. You >> You have a change in administration. You >> You have a change in administration. You have a change in Congress. There's laws have a change in Congress. There's laws have a change in Congress. There's laws that are passed that I think it that are passed that I think it that are passed that I think it terrestrial computes the utility supply terrestrial computes the utility supply terrestrial computes the utility supply demand. But I actually think outside of demand. But I actually think outside of demand. But I actually think outside of that, Talon was super compelling. And that, Talon was super compelling. And that, Talon was super compelling. And >> so you got MGM, you got Talent. Now the >> so you got MGM, you got Talent. Now the >> so you got MGM, you got Talent. Now the other two. other two. other two. >> I I I I thought they were both great >> I I I I thought they were both great >> I I I I thought they were both great pitches. I can I tie them for third just pitches. I can I tie them for third just pitches. I can I tie them for third just >> Well, no, don't even give the score. >> Well, no, don't even give the score. >> Well, no, don't even give the score. just any feedback on those two ideas or just any feedback on those two ideas or just any feedback on those two ideas or those are just a little bit lottery those are just a little bit lottery those are just a little bit lottery ticket for you or ticket for you or ticket for you or >> No, I thought Actis was was very >> No, I thought Actis was was very >> No, I thought Actis was was very compelling. They're trying to trying to compelling. They're trying to trying to compelling. They're trying to trying to do something different as Oleg said if do something different as Oleg said if do something different as Oleg said if you ever get a biotech company that be you ever get a biotech company that be you ever get a biotech company that be can become a platform and they have a can become a platform and they have a can become a platform and they have a mechanism whether it's of drugging mechanism whether it's of drugging mechanism whether it's of drugging whether it's targeting or if you have whether it's targeting or if you have whether it's targeting or if you have something that is broadly applicable something that is broadly applicable something that is broadly applicable that is when you can get these really that is when you can get these really that is when you can get these really really big hundred billion dollar plus really big hundred billion dollar plus really big hundred billion dollar plus outcomes in biotech which are rare so I outcomes in biotech which are rare so I outcomes in biotech which are rare so I thought that part of um activis was thought that part of um activis was thought that part of um activis was super compelling super compelling super compelling >> and um >> and um >> and um >> you don't play crypto >> you don't play crypto >> you don't play crypto >> I don't play crypto, but I thought the >> I don't play crypto, but I thought the >> I don't play crypto, but I thought the entire go Geonet discussion was entire go Geonet discussion was entire go Geonet discussion was fascinating and I'm happy. fascinating and I'm happy. fascinating and I'm happy. >> Is there anything that would get you off >> Is there anything that would get you off >> Is there anything that would get you off the bench and make you jump into the the bench and make you jump into the the bench and make you jump into the crypto game or it's just you're why are crypto game or it's just you're why are crypto game or it's just you're why are you not playing the crypto game? you not playing the crypto game? you not playing the crypto game? >> I feel about crypto exactly the way I do >> I feel about crypto exactly the way I do >> I feel about crypto exactly the way I do about snowboarding. Okay. I'm I'm not a about snowboarding. Okay. I'm I'm not a about snowboarding. Okay. I'm I'm not a very good athlete. I've spent a lifetime very good athlete. I've spent a lifetime very good athlete. I've spent a lifetime learning how to ski and I'm okay. Um, learning how to ski and I'm okay. Um, learning how to ski and I'm okay. Um, and just the idea of getting on a and just the idea of getting on a and just the idea of getting on a snowboard, having, you know, thousands snowboard, having, you know, thousands snowboard, having, you know, thousands of hours of ski instruction, of hours of ski instruction, of hours of ski instruction, >> you don't want the pain for the game. >> you don't want the pain for the game. >> you don't want the pain for the game. >> Yes. And I have 25 years of lessons, >> Yes. And I have 25 years of lessons, >> Yes. And I have 25 years of lessons, learnings, pain, scars from from learnings, pain, scars from from learnings, pain, scars from from investing in equities and public investing in equities and public investing in equities and public securities and just crypto. It's a securities and just crypto. It's a securities and just crypto. It's a little bit like snowboarding for me, but little bit like snowboarding for me, but little bit like snowboarding for me, but like, you know, everybody who wants to like, you know, everybody who wants to like, you know, everybody who wants to snowboard, that's great. snowboard, that's great. snowboard, that's great. >> Everybody wants to do crypto, that's >> Everybody wants to do crypto, that's >> Everybody wants to do crypto, that's great. Just please don't go sideways great. Just please don't go sideways great. Just please don't go sideways down the mountain and ruin the powder. down the mountain and ruin the powder. down the mountain and ruin the powder. David, David, David, >> I think your assessment of MGM Talon, >> I think your assessment of MGM Talon, >> I think your assessment of MGM Talon, >> I think I think MGM uh I look at the >> I think I think MGM uh I look at the >> I think I think MGM uh I look at the kind of return upside, the downside and kind of return upside, the downside and kind of return upside, the downside and the timeline. MGM's like probably a 3x. the timeline. MGM's like probably a 3x. the timeline. MGM's like probably a 3x. I think it's also missing this point I think it's also missing this point I think it's also missing this point that I've heard a lot about on you can that I've heard a lot about on you can that I've heard a lot about on you can actually upgrade the monetization on actually upgrade the monetization on actually upgrade the monetization on these Vegas properties. We were talking these Vegas properties. We were talking these Vegas properties. We were talking to a friend of ours in Vegas. They're to a friend of ours in Vegas. They're to a friend of ours in Vegas. They're they're making a million bucks a day in they're making a million bucks a day in they're making a million bucks a day in incremental ibita every day that they incremental ibita every day that they incremental ibita every day that they have a show at the sphere um at the uh have a show at the sphere um at the uh have a show at the sphere um at the uh at the Venetian hotel which is an at the Venetian hotel which is an at the Venetian hotel which is an unbelievable statistic which tells you unbelievable statistic which tells you unbelievable statistic which tells you that when you have the entertainment that when you have the entertainment that when you have the entertainment draw the gambling revenue just flies draw the gambling revenue just flies draw the gambling revenue just flies >> flies >> flies >> flies >> and so Barry Diller I have heard >> and so Barry Diller I have heard >> and so Barry Diller I have heard separately has been spending a lot of separately has been spending a lot of separately has been spending a lot of time on trying to reinvent the time on trying to reinvent the time on trying to reinvent the entertainment at these properties and entertainment at these properties and entertainment at these properties and thinks he has an idea on how to do it thinks he has an idea on how to do it thinks he has an idea on how to do it which will cause the gambling revenue to which will cause the gambling revenue to which will cause the gambling revenue to fly. So, I think even if you discount fly. So, I think even if you discount fly. So, I think even if you discount the upside on these new locations, the upside on these new locations, the upside on these new locations, there's probably a lot of work to be there's probably a lot of work to be there's probably a lot of work to be done. And I do like the floor on the bid done. And I do like the floor on the bid done. And I do like the floor on the bid and then you got call it 3x in 2 years and then you got call it 3x in 2 years and then you got call it 3x in 2 years even if this bid goes nowhere and they even if this bid goes nowhere and they even if this bid goes nowhere and they keep the thing running and they're like keep the thing running and they're like keep the thing running and they're like we're going to reject the bid and keep we're going to reject the bid and keep we're going to reject the bid and keep running independently. Talon is maybe 3x running independently. Talon is maybe 3x running independently. Talon is maybe 3x upside, 5x upside, but it's eight years upside, 5x upside, but it's eight years upside, 5x upside, but it's eight years out. And I think one of the other out. And I think one of the other out. And I think one of the other challenges with Talon that I would kind challenges with Talon that I would kind challenges with Talon that I would kind of use as a valuation metric is I think of use as a valuation metric is I think of use as a valuation metric is I think it's more interest rate sensitive than it's more interest rate sensitive than it's more interest rate sensitive than MGM is um because the power purchase MGM is um because the power purchase MGM is um because the power purchase agreements really are where a lot of the agreements really are where a lot of the agreements really are where a lot of the revenue comes from. So you're going to revenue comes from. So you're going to revenue comes from. So you're going to get a discount rate that's a multip get a discount rate that's a multip get a discount rate that's a multip that's a function of where interest that's a function of where interest that's a function of where interest rates are sitting. So I think if rates are sitting. So I think if rates are sitting. So I think if interest rates shoot up which some might interest rates shoot up which some might interest rates shoot up which some might argue there's there's risk there you argue there's there's risk there you argue there's there's risk there you actually get margin compression from actually get margin compression from actually get margin compression from that 15x outlook that he has for Talon. that 15x outlook that he has for Talon. that 15x outlook that he has for Talon. So that would be my kind of downside So that would be my kind of downside So that would be my kind of downside scenario on Talon. um in the in the time scenario on Talon. um in the in the time scenario on Talon. um in the in the time ahead and Actis I do worry because I'm ahead and Actis I do worry because I'm ahead and Actis I do worry because I'm an investor in a company that's got a D an investor in a company that's got a D an investor in a company that's got a D protein conjugate that shows really protein conjugate that shows really protein conjugate that shows really strong efficacy in getting solid tumors. strong efficacy in getting solid tumors. strong efficacy in getting solid tumors. I think that there are new modalities I think that there are new modalities I think that there are new modalities for therapeutics for solid tumors that for therapeutics for solid tumors that for therapeutics for solid tumors that are being discussed that that may kind are being discussed that that may kind are being discussed that that may kind of put this at risk. I think the China of put this at risk. I think the China of put this at risk. I think the China risk is legit because I've seen it risk is legit because I've seen it risk is legit because I've seen it across the board in biotech. Everything across the board in biotech. Everything across the board in biotech. Everything gets ripped off and people go to China, gets ripped off and people go to China, gets ripped off and people go to China, but they could have a hit and Lily could but they could have a hit and Lily could but they could have a hit and Lily could bid on it in 6 months if they actually bid on it in 6 months if they actually bid on it in 6 months if they actually get a good readout. So there's certainly get a good readout. So there's certainly get a good readout. So there's certainly upside, but the downside's probably 50 upside, but the downside's probably 50 upside, but the downside's probably 50 75% if they get a bad readout or China 75% if they get a bad readout or China 75% if they get a bad readout or China or some new modality comes out. So I or some new modality comes out. So I or some new modality comes out. So I think the ranking is probably MGM Talon think the ranking is probably MGM Talon think the ranking is probably MGM Talon Actis and then the for me the geodet Actis and then the for me the geodet Actis and then the for me the geodet piece uh I I just think the space thing piece uh I I just think the space thing piece uh I I just think the space thing is is likely the path. It's going to is is likely the path. It's going to is is likely the path. It's going to replace all RTK and all GPS in the next replace all RTK and all GPS in the next replace all RTK and all GPS in the next decade. Um it's an inevitable piggyback decade. Um it's an inevitable piggyback decade. Um it's an inevitable piggyback on systems that are already going up. on systems that are already going up. on systems that are already going up. >> All right, great. So I think I've got >> All right, great. So I think I've got >> All right, great. So I think I've got everybody. Uh for me, I put them into everybody. Uh for me, I put them into everybody. Uh for me, I put them into two buckets. Um I think uh AKTS and GOD two buckets. Um I think uh AKTS and GOD two buckets. Um I think uh AKTS and GOD those are like lottery tickets could be those are like lottery tickets could be those are like lottery tickets could be crazy returns but you know there's a crazy returns but you know there's a crazy returns but you know there's a there's a big probability of a zero there's a big probability of a zero there's a big probability of a zero there if they don't you know uh actually there if they don't you know uh actually there if they don't you know uh actually work and then MGM and Talon obviously work and then MGM and Talon obviously work and then MGM and Talon obviously got the downside protection and those got the downside protection and those got the downside protection and those feel like um people will always gamble feel like um people will always gamble feel like um people will always gamble and leave the lights on. So I kind of and leave the lights on. So I kind of and leave the lights on. So I kind of like both of those. I put 200k into each like both of those. I put 200k into each like both of those. I put 200k into each in real time. in real time. in real time. >> Gamble and leave the lights. Uh, so >> Gamble and leave the lights. Uh, so >> Gamble and leave the lights. Uh, so that's just like my I don't have a that's just like my I don't have a that's just like my I don't have a public vehicle. public vehicle. public vehicle. >> Did you actually buy? >> Did you actually buy? >> Did you actually buy? >> I'm just day trading. >> I'm just day trading. >> I'm just day trading. >> I I bought half of his action >> I I bought half of his action >> I I bought half of his action and I don't have a Robin Hood account. I and I don't have a Robin Hood account. I and I don't have a Robin Hood account. I have to call my office. So I was like have to call my office. So I was like have to call my office. So I was like just I'll take just I'll take just I'll take >> you lose, buddy. >> you lose, buddy. >> you lose, buddy. >> I'll take half your I didn't see you >> I'll take half your I didn't see you >> I'll take half your I didn't see you with your thumbs. with your thumbs. with your thumbs. >> I'm up 7% across the portfolio. So I >> I'm up 7% across the portfolio. So I >> I'm up 7% across the portfolio. So I don't think I can include you here. don't think I can include you here. don't think I can include you here. >> Steps to buy. >> Steps to buy. >> Steps to buy. >> I did. I I waited the three in the order >> I did. I I waited the three in the order >> I did. I I waited the three in the order I said on my So anyway, I I'll just give I said on my So anyway, I I'll just give I said on my So anyway, I I'll just give mine really quick. I I will go MGM, mine really quick. I I will go MGM, mine really quick. I I will go MGM, Talon, uh, G, AKTS. Talon, uh, G, AKTS. Talon, uh, G, AKTS. >> Gavin's only gonna make trillion. >> Gavin's only gonna make trillion. >> Gavin's only gonna make trillion. >> Let's bring the Let's bring our four >> Let's bring the Let's bring our four >> Let's bring the Let's bring our four pictures out. pictures out. pictures out. >> We have $1,000. >> We have $1,000. >> We have $1,000. Please get the Please get the Please get the >> two men hugging statue. Wait, wait, no. >> two men hugging statue. Wait, wait, no. >> two men hugging statue. Wait, wait, no. Before you announce it, I need the Before you announce it, I need the Before you announce it, I need the extremely alpha male heterosexual extremely alpha male heterosexual extremely alpha male heterosexual trophy. The all-in heterosexual alpha trophy. The all-in heterosexual alpha trophy. The all-in heterosexual alpha male trophy, please. And I need our four male trophy, please. And I need our four male trophy, please. And I need our four pitchers to come on stage. It makes it pitchers to come on stage. It makes it pitchers to come on stage. It makes it more exciting. It's like makes it more exciting. It's like makes it more exciting. It's like makes it uncomfortable when like they show the uncomfortable when like they show the uncomfortable when like they show the five people for best actor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> You put those on the table. >> You put those on the table. >> But wait, where's my award doing? The >> But wait, where's my award doing? The >> But wait, where's my award doing? The award. You guys have the award. award. You guys have the award. award. You guys have the award. >> Please bring me the extremely >> Please bring me the extremely >> Please bring me the extremely heterosexual alpha male award. heterosexual alpha male award. heterosexual alpha male award. >> You'll see why when I show you the >> You'll see why when I show you the >> You'll see why when I show you the award. Pass me this. award. Pass me this. award. Pass me this. >> Over a little more. >> Over a little more. >> Over a little more. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Bring me that award. Let me show you how >> Bring me that award. Let me show you how >> Bring me that award. Let me show you how we 3D modeled this. we 3D modeled this. we 3D modeled this. >> No one wants to see this. >> No one wants to see this. >> No one wants to see this. >> Look at this. This is two men >> Look at this. This is two men >> Look at this. This is two men >> uncomfortably hugging. And the way we >> uncomfortably hugging. And the way we >> uncomfortably hugging. And the way we did this, it's the best. Come here, did this, it's the best. Come here, did this, it's the best. Come here, Freeberg. I'll show you. I'm not doing Freeberg. I'll show you. I'm not doing Freeberg. I'll show you. I'm not doing it with you. it with you. it with you. >> Come on, Freeberg. >> Come on, Freeberg. >> Come on, Freeberg. >> You do it tomorrow. >> You do it tomorrow. >> You do it tomorrow. >> Free. Okay, fine. He's extremely >> Free. Okay, fine. He's extremely >> Free. Okay, fine. He's extremely comfortable. comfortable. comfortable. >> That's David and I. >> That's David and I. >> That's David and I. >> It's David and you. But let's show them >> It's David and you. But let's show them >> It's David and you. But let's show them how we modeled this. We just did a long how we modeled this. We just did a long how we modeled this. We just did a long >> This is uncomfortable. And we hold it >> This is uncomfortable. And we hold it >> This is uncomfortable. And we hold it for five extra seconds. for five extra seconds. for five extra seconds. >> At 2 minutes, you get the release of >> At 2 minutes, you get the release of >> At 2 minutes, you get the release of oxytocin. There it is. oxytocin. There it is. oxytocin. There it is. >> Okay. So, gentlemen, this is it. Do you >> Okay. So, gentlemen, this is it. Do you >> Okay. So, gentlemen, this is it. Do you guys have the results? Go ahead. guys have the results? Go ahead. guys have the results? Go ahead. Audience award. Audience award. Audience award. >> Audience award. >> Audience award. >> Audience award. >> So, >> So, >> So, based on 150 votes from the audience, based on 150 votes from the audience, based on 150 votes from the audience, uh, do I just go four to one? uh, do I just go four to one? uh, do I just go four to one? >> Four to one. >> Four to one. >> Four to one. >> Four to one is more exciting. >> Four to one is more exciting. >> Four to one is more exciting. >> Okay. Fourth place, uh, with 5% of the >> Okay. Fourth place, uh, with 5% of the >> Okay. Fourth place, uh, with 5% of the vote was Kyle Sani. vote was Kyle Sani. vote was Kyle Sani. >> Okay. Well done on the board. >> Okay. Well done on the board. >> Okay. Well done on the board. >> A very close >> A very close >> A very close second place. second place. second place. >> No, third. Third. >> No, third. Third. >> No, third. Third. >> Third place with 21% of the vote. Oleg >> Third place with 21% of the vote. Oleg >> Third place with 21% of the vote. Oleg rock rock rock >> leg. Oh boy, we're closing in here, >> leg. Oh boy, we're closing in here, >> leg. Oh boy, we're closing in here, guys. Very dramatic. guys. Very dramatic. guys. Very dramatic. >> And with 50 50% >> And with 50 50% >> And with 50 50% who's number two. who's number two. who's number two. >> I'm going to go to you. No, you say >> I'm going to go to you. No, you say >> I'm going to go to you. No, you say number one now. number one now. number one now. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> No. Okay. Well, sorry. Yeah, you're >> No. Okay. Well, sorry. Yeah, you're >> No. Okay. Well, sorry. Yeah, you're right. With 24% of the vote right. With 24% of the vote right. With 24% of the vote >> in second place, >> Aaron Cowan for MGM. NUMBER ONE WITH 50% >> Aaron Cowan for MGM. NUMBER ONE WITH 50% of the vote. Dan Drafus. of the vote. Dan Drafus. of the vote. Dan Drafus. >> Wow. Unbelievable. Give it up. Nicely >> Wow. Unbelievable. Give it up. Nicely >> Wow. Unbelievable. Give it up. Nicely done. Now the bestie though. done. Now the bestie though. done. Now the bestie though. >> Wait, hold on before we do the bestie. >> Wait, hold on before we do the bestie. >> Wait, hold on before we do the bestie. How do you feel right now having won How do you feel right now having won How do you feel right now having won this? Pass him the award. You guys look this? Pass him the award. You guys look this? Pass him the award. You guys look so uncomfortable. so uncomfortable. so uncomfortable. >> You guys are really It's very >> You guys are really It's very >> You guys are really It's very >> But pass him his award for a second and >> But pass him his award for a second and >> But pass him his award for a second and let him hold it. let him hold it. let him hold it. >> Give it academy award. >> Give it academy award. >> Give it academy award. >> Thank everybody how you got to this >> Thank everybody how you got to this >> Thank everybody how you got to this place. place. place. >> Say a few words. I got my award. I got >> Say a few words. I got my award. I got >> Say a few words. I got my award. I got my tequila. my tequila. my tequila. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> There you go. All right. Well done. >> There you go. All right. Well done. >> There you go. All right. Well done. >> Okay. Now Okay. >> Okay. Now Okay. >> Okay. Now Okay. >> That's the award. 4 3 2 1. It's uh >> That's the award. 4 3 2 1. It's uh >> That's the award. 4 3 2 1. It's uh relatively similar here. Uh fourth place relatively similar here. Uh fourth place relatively similar here. Uh fourth place was Kyle Simmani. Okay. was Kyle Simmani. Okay. was Kyle Simmani. Okay. >> Third place was Oleg. >> Third place was Oleg. >> Third place was Oleg. >> Second place Dan Drafus. First place >> Second place Dan Drafus. First place >> Second place Dan Drafus. First place Aaron Cowen. Big upset. Flip the Aaron Cowen. Big upset. Flip the Aaron Cowen. Big upset. Flip the audience vote. audience vote. audience vote. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> All right. So MGM wins. >> All right. So MGM wins. >> All right. So MGM wins. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Thanks guys. >> Thanks guys. >> Thanks guys. >> This was amazing. >> This was amazing. >> This was amazing. >> All right. Thank you all for >> All right. Thank you all for >> All right. Thank you all for participating. participating. participating. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you so much for coming and we'll >> Thank you so much for coming and we'll >> Thank you so much for coming and we'll see you next